The reward for the first half of a tier is access to Basil. The reward for the second half of a tier is good crown drop rates.

That's why Royal Jelly Palace, which is in the second half of Tier 2, was the most commonly-farmed stage in the game until they finally got around to rebalancing its rewards to match regular second-half-of-Tier2 stages (which can still pay well: a single Arena can award 1500-2000 crowns in the second half of Tier 2).

You can do your farming in the second half of Tier 1, the crown drops are still good enough to get you some 3* equips, which is what the second half of Tier 2 expects you to have.

Yes, that's because of the aforementioned rebalancing to bring the crown rewards to match non-boss second-half stages.

Oh, and the danger level color light is only a warning of how tough that stage will be compared to your currently equipped gear.

Technically it doesn't make much sense why should *edit* earlier depths give more rewards (eg second half of T1 vs first half of T2), the only reasoning I can come up with is they want people to waste energy getting to terminals. First half of T2 is where this hurts the most it's really crappy, bad mats, low heat, low crowns where as the first half of T3 would be even worse given the cost just to take the elevator however the odd T5 mat that drops makes up for it.

Now sure you can just join friends and guild mates on terminals however I still think it's never made sense.

yep i agree this is a money scam game. Better off paying for a real game :D

"No not to purchase recipes were we talking about that? No."

Okay, so what is this:

"the only reasoning I can come up with is they want people to waste energy getting to terminals."

supposed to mean?

If you aim to profit in Spiral Knights you have to actually take note of what levels are in a particular gate and what materials you're likely to find in them. You can't simply go into any random stratum and hope to break even; you're expected to do the planning ahead. The game isn't terribly clear about this mind you, and OOO would do themselves, new players and especially players on the forums a great deal of good by making this more apparent in-game or simply doing a better job balancing the payout of different stratums.

Anyhow all levels in Spiral Knights cycle in real-time, you can check which levels are on which depth in a gate before you enter it (In the large box on the right) and by accessing the 'Gate Map' through the gear icon in the top left of the HUD at any point in a level. You want to be looking out for Arenas, Graveyards, Clockwork Tunnels (For Danger Rooms), and certain specific levels like Grim Gallery, Cravat Hall, Aurora Isles, Jelly Palace, ect. Similarly you'll want to avoid less profitable levels like Deconstruction Zones, Wolver Den, Jigsaw Valley and so forth. Selling of rarer materials you get and buying and auctioning popular recipes from Basil are also great ways to make additional crowns.

This is from an old guide written by kakelgis and isn't quite up to date, but still accurate enough to give you a basic idea of what to look out for;

Danger Zone clockworks > Arena levels > Firestorm Citadel > Royal Jelly Palace > Aurora Isles: Jelly Farms > (Good heat/crowns)
Lichenous Lair > Scarlet Fortress > Gloaming Wildwoods > Clockworks > Devilish Drudgery (Moderate heat/crowns)
Dark City > Deconstruction Zone > Jigsaw Valley > Wolver Den > Concrete Jungle (Terrible heat/crowns)

I sincerely doubt it, empie, based on the amount of enemies and chests.

"Did I say anything in my post about purchasing recipes?"

Why the hell else would you go directly to a Terminal? You don't need to go to a Terminal to get to Strata 2, 4, or 6, in fact, it's more preferable to just get invited into a party at the beginning of a level.

The game -is- flawed. The payouts run on average something like

-- top --
200
250
300
-- terminal --
350
400
450
-- moorcroft --
300
350
400
450
-- terminal --
500
525
575
600
-- emberlight --
350
400
450
500
-- terminal --
525
575
600
625
650
-- core --

something -like- that, anyway, I haven't don't a real analysis and individual level variation and random chance combined can give you like +/- 50% on those rewards, never mind that the last depth of each tier is sometimes replaced with a boss that has terrible crown payouts, presumably in exchange for the tokens that you're getting (that can no longer be turned into crowns, so you either -really- want them for the gear or they are worthless, at least until we see what happens with the merchant update and token gear.)

The point of the above table is not to give exact average numbers but to show what the relationship is (in my experience) between depth and reward. And yes, the top half of each tier rewards far less than the bottom half of the previous tier. However, you can not skip the first half of a tier except by manipulating the system. Many people -do- fill their friend's list up just so they can jump to terminals and go solo to either play solo or invite their guildmates or 'real' friends. People join PUGs in much the same way, not even pausing before hitting 'go solo' and hoping to skip the first few levels of the first strata. Some guilds, I've heard on these forums, deliberately have scouts solo to the terminal and then fill the party. (Soloing to the terminal isn't -so- bad because you at least get the mats then, so it isn't that bad, and presumably they take turns, I guess.)

I really think it would be much, much better if reward increased strictly in accordance with depth, or else (or also!) if we had a way to start a run at the terminal without abusing the 'join' mechanic.

Seeing the recipe vendor really isn't that great of a reward - most recipes can't be easily resold for a profit, so they don't provide a significant profit potential. (If you keep abreast of current recipe demand, you can make something from it, but not a lot. More if you are patient and spam /2, but that calls for a time investment whereas the auction house has substantial risk - even popular recipes may not sell in 2 days for a profitable price. That 10% is a serious hit in 5* recipes, 2778 crowns at breakeven, getting you almost nothing for a 3k markup, while someone else is making 3k at the same price because they have hours to waste on /2.)

Ahem. So that leaves recipes for yourself... well... I don't know about anyone else, but I have dozens of recipes I've bought but not crafted. Crafting up 5* equipment is not cheap... I really don't need anything from 2* Basil right now, I have plenty to occupy my crafting budget for weeks. I think most players start out really excited to see Basil all the time... but once you're in your first set of 5* gear... not so much. Crafting additions to your 5* gear set takes time for heat and money for crafting (plus you can probably grab the recipes from other players for not much above cost with only a handful of exceptions.)

If seeing Basil's recipe-list is really meant to be the reward for reaching the terminal, it's a pretty crappy reward. Given random chance and differences in level rewards, the top of T3 often pays less than the top of T2, and for a supposedly casual game... a T3 core run takes -hours-. Okay, only 2-3 hours, and including a few short breaks, but still, often more time than I ought to spare.

Give me unidirectional scaling of crown drops please, or natural jumps to terminals, or something creative that addresses this problem in a way I haven't thought of.

lol "for [Pete's] sake"
the mods owned you

Rage Rage Rage...More rage on these forums than the kids on roids in my gym

@Senshi
You obviously haven't collected any data of any sort. That chart is no where near accurate. And of course, it not something that you can make, there are just too many factors to consider. t2 Arena profits cannot compare to t1 arena profits in anyways and most levels cant be compared like that either. Now before you throw up a storm calling me stupid and whatnot, the money made is in the thousands per depth and it really doesnt scale like that at all and the relationship is off.

ex. Jelly Palace d16 (whatever the level is called. red carpet runaround?) which is widely considered one of the most profitable in terms of heat and crowns (even after the re-balancing and update) gives almost 2k crowns and substantial heat for one level. Arenas and other such things end up giving around 1.5k. And even if you were to take averages, it wouldn't scale like that. not at all. your numbers are off by ~100-150%

And for many people who are trying to make a profit, they go up before the boss for exactly the reason that you mentioned. There isn't a point in doing the boss if you aren't interested in the tokens so its a moot point.

As to making profits off of recipe reselling. Its extremely profitable but only at T3 basil where you 5* recipes. I'll admit, 4* recipes will only net you around 1.5-2k and 3* below aren't even worth mentioning for profit. Most 5* recipes go for at least 5k markup some as high as 10-15k markup depending on popularity. But yes, if you're trying to pawn off 4* recipes and below on the AH you won't be making much in terms of products.

Even i you ignore the gate map (which by all means you shouldn't) on the majority of runs, you can either break even or make small profits.

you know what would happen if all loot scaled up from T1 to T3?

inflation of CE prices beyond t1 players could ever afford

Your mom is flawed <3