Spiral Knights - Difficulty of the game.

Difficulty of the game.

27 replies [Last post]

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 19:25

Blue-Elephant

okay so ive been playing for about 2 months or so im five star prepared on most items (sword and armor). And yes ive even purchased energy for some things. but the thing that makes me mad about this game sometimes is the difficulty of the game.

Now im not saying that the game is overly hard, but i dont think that it was planned out real well. now i have five star armor and i hate going into tier 2, yes i said tier two. the thing is when you start out you get this free lifestyle omg this is fun easy and respectibly good game and you love it. but then you get the things you want whether its playing tier one dayly or buying energy to help yourself. but then you get into the higher tiers. and all of a sudden that cute little jelly is taking away three to four bars of your health with every hit. and this shocked me like no tommorow. now im a frequent shield user but there barely any point of playing if all i use is a shield. because i cant attack anymore, and when i do let go of my shield and try to attack i get the kill but then i have to rush to have my shield back up and to me it takes like 3 seconds for my shield to get back up to protect myself, which in terms is plenty of time for those monsters to lay theyre attack and screw me over. then youll either get attacked by others right after or get an poison affect or some other statis affect and wont be able to put your shield up anyway. this alowing those monsters with theyre overpowerfull attack to take 3 or 4 more of your hearts. when you go and get that new armor and think hey i got better health and streanght and now tier 2 and 3 should be just like tier 1, but its not.

what im trying to get across is that the attack of any monster besides a boss should be the same of that of 1 bar or half a bar like in tier one, unless of course your underarmored, because these monsters attacks are way to overpowered. cmon sega and three rings you should get this the attack shouldnt be so high for those monsters or just plain keep the attack the same throughout all tiers i mean you can upgrade them to where they have more attacks, dont get me wrong i think thats an awsome idea, but when they do almost 4 times the damage when your wearing armor thats "SUPOSED" to protect you from them thats just [BS] you might as well walk in with the needed 2* armor instead and not waist your time geting 5* if its not going to protect you.

Now ive read alot of other peoples complaints and they're very good complaints and i totally see how they are mad i am too, because im either wasteing my friends health or my ce to getup and die again literaly...

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 20:01

Rangerwillx

I was trolling.

Edit: I deleted my post, because I was being a troll. Sorry, I really am not like that.

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 19:38

Wfawwer

If you are having problems in

If you are having problems in teir 2 you shouldn't be playing. The time between monster attacks is perfectly fine. All of us have no problem in teir 2. Teir 3 may be hard, but it's supposed to be hard.

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 19:38

Riodaisho

Well, you are most likely 5*

Well, you are most likely 5* equipped, if you go to t2 with 5* armor, it will be downgraded to be just as good, or slightly better, than a 3* equipment.

Yes, shielding is important, crowd control (LOL, are there people who could be remembering this word? I dunno) is almost more important. What's your weapon of choice? Cutter line will get you most likely hit of you're attacking like a mad man. If you really are having problems with this, try out a Shivermist Buster(Haze Bomb line with freeze). Or play with a team, enemies will get more life and more damage, but the numbers are the same and easier to control!

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 19:42

Mecc

What you're asking is for the

What you're asking is for the game to be easier... What would be the point in that? Do you see basketball players complaining that the nets are too high? If the game is too hard and you don't feel like playing to be a better player, nobody is forcing you to. The challenge is part of the fun.

What's upsetting is the large amount of players that think that once they obtain the best gear their are invincible and automatically a pro. Having 5* gear ≠ being a good player. It takes patience and practice to get the shielding/slashing timing right.

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 19:47

Velcro

Firstly I have to make sure

Firstly I have to make sure of one thing. Are you aware of the concept of shield cancelling? All this technique is, is just pressing your shield key very shortly after you attack. You can see it best on the first swing of attacks, but since I haven't tried many different swords I can't tell you which other attacks this works on. Anyway, this technique allows you to throw up your shield quite quickly (often times less than a second delay between attack and shield).

But if you already knew that then forgive me. Otherwise, this game seems to me like it was meant for team play and solo-ist play is dangerous and often times unforgiving. When you're in a party it is often times quite rare that all four members of your party drop within a second or so. This leaves members alive to come revive you. Whether or not players are reviving you or not is up to who you're playing with. But when I play with my guild mates and I see someone die I will stop attacking. I'll focus on dodging, shielding, and living until I can get to their body. Then I get them up and feel safe again knowing that another ball of life is running around.

You're not supposed to get hit in this game, that's the whole thing. Attacks are punishing because they need to be. If attacks from normal monsters did substantially less then skilled players would pretty much never die unless they were cornered or mobbed. A large number of hearts drop as well and very oftenly I find extra hearts on the battlefield that go unused because I just haven't taken enough damage.

Also you could be shielding 'too much'. This sounds contradictory but you're slower, and you stop whenever something damages your shield. This can leave you shield-stunned as large numbers of monsters attack you. You need to distinguish when it is necessary to shield, and when you could drop shield and outrun an attack. And believe me, there is a large number of attacks you can simply maneuver around or away from.

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 19:57

Romasanta

No, no it is not

As the previous posts say, you are wrong.

Things to consider:

1)Your gear is nerfed at lower depths, but become stronger to deal with the increased danger of the lower depths.

3)Tier 2 is not easy, per se', but if you're not careful, you will get your ass handed to you.

4)Learn to fight mobs , more effectively and learn to dodge everything you can.

5)Your shield's purpose is protecting you from that which cannot be avoided.

6)Watch some youtube videos of players who have been playing longer than you have; We've developed our skill sets over time, and you could probably learn a thing or two from watching us at work.

TLDR:
1)gear will suck at low depths
2)the game is never "easy"
3)learn to kite
4)doge and weave, goddamn it
5)If you suck at something, figure out how others succeed

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 20:24

Ignominious

Legacy Username

It's not so bad once you get

It's not so bad once you get good at it. The main thing is getting into a defensive mind set. Lots of times you see some idiot just spamming their attack and trading hits. Only thing that does is let me steal their heat. Damage is always 100% avoidable. The hardest thing this game has ever thrown at me was a T3 construct arena with 8 of the heat seeking rocket puppies while I was solo. I died horribly. While down I used that time to figure out a plan. Plotted a course so that I could cause the rockets to hit the other puppies, used my shield only when necessary, and used my flourish to get off interrupts on the puppy I was using as my shield. The only reason I died the first time is because it caught me off guard, without a plan, and in a bad position. Now everytime I trigger a new arena phase I get my butt out to the sides =D

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 20:48

Velcro

@Ignominious:

I'd like to add that the worst I've had it has been a shock arena with Devilites, Greavers, and Butterflies. Once I dropped, I just went back to Haven. Haha, =p

Though I admire your story.

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 21:25

Sunless

Please don't let this thread

Please don't let this thread be about the game being difficult and calling for enemy nerfs...

...

Son of a [redacted].

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 21:32

#10

Pupu

Legacy Username

You know, before reading the thread I thought you were going to complain about the game being too easy.

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 21:49

#11

Ightex

Armor is more of a 'proof of

Armor is more of a 'proof of effort' or something to give your character a fancy look, rather than having much functionality. It does work according to what its meant for, it its not to be the end-all to damage and suddenly you're juggernauting through the levels. If anything, it only allows you to survive a few hits more than you would wearing weaker armor, and considering the health you're already losing with 5* gear, imagine how brutal it'd be in something less than that.

And the reason why the upper Tiers are so difficult is mainly the change in mechanics of how monsters fight, resulting in a completely different fighting strategy. You can hack and slash all you want in T1, maybe even T2, but hitting T3, that technique is no longer viable and you'll have to spend time avoiding being hit more than anything. Enemies can easily break even 5* shields making shielding necessary only in dire cases, to bump an enemy away or to buy you a few seconds to escape before it breaks. You have to learn how enemies work, to dodge attacks and hit them at the right time and learn how to back off. If all the levels were just hacking and slashing, the game would be far less engrossing with the lack of ability to apply technique into fights. You might as well go play WoW instead.

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 22:28

#12

Mayaura

Monsters are sometimes cheats

What I mean is, some monsters like reavers and devilites and gun puppies that launch heat-seeking missles are very hard, almost cheating by the game designers. And some monsters are so easy they border on boring. But I've soloed from 0 to 29 and I'm not a great fighter. It's more about knowing what to expect and how to counter it before it happens to you.

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 06:26

#13

Romasanta

reavers - rapier; problem

reavers - rapier; problem solved
Devilites - hit and run.... with a rapier
rocket puppies - run around and make the missiles hit something else

Those monsters do not cheat; others do (menders, zombies, etc, etc...)

EDIT: fixed a typo

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 22:43

#14

yuuzora

Legacy Username

As the saying goes, another

As the saying goes, another term for Artificial Intelligence is Artificial Incompetence.

There are games where every hit from the toughest stage ohko, mostly off-screened attacks, and the only way to beat it without resurrection is precise planning, positioning, attack timing / combination. No freestyle, very organised, no redundant movement. And yet many people run them repeatedly to beat the fastest time record, although only a few are successful.

Tue, 07/19/2011 - 23:05

#15

Quasirandom

Congratulations, sir. You

Congratulations, sir. You have inspired me to attempt tier 2 in starter gear: proto sword, proto gun, spiral sallet, spiral culet, and proto shield. I even unequipped my trinkets, just for you.

Honestly, it was harder than I expected. It was still pretty doable, though. I did one level (Jigsaw Valley/Emerald Axis II at depth 9 in the Coral Clover gate) successfully, before getting bored and going back to Haven.

It's not the gear you have. It's what you do with it that matters. If you can't handle tier 2 in five star gear, then the problem is you. Some advice on how to improve your skills:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/12793
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/16543

For what it's worth, I once lost 24 health in a single hit. That was to an Alpha Ash Tail at depth 27, so it had the attack power buff. It also lit me on fire, while I was wearing full skelly gear (sinister skelly, four stars), with negative fire resistance. If you don't have mobs that can hit hard, then the game is too easy and boring.

You may also wish to note that four and five star gear is meant for tier 3, not lower tiers. Its effectiveness gets severely nerfed down in lower tiers. In tier 2, five star gear is somewhat stronger than three star gear, but not massively so. This is a good thing, as it prevents people with five star gear from running their friends or guildies through tier 2 while being nearly invincible, so that the people being "helped" manage to get through tier 2 and move on without ever learning how to play the game.

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 00:15

#16

Pupu

Legacy Username

Also

Also, if you want HIGH DEFENSE, use defensive gear like volcanic plate or ironmight, instead of whatever you're using. (Most likely wolf line)

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 01:15

#17

Andur

Legacy Username

Silver Survivor

Only 0.5% of all Steam players have the Silver Survivor achievement (survive a Tier 2 run without dying). That says a lot about the general skill level of SK players :-)

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 01:25

#18

Bonburnr

Legacy Username

Really?

Thought you were going to complain about how easy this game is.
Solo Snarbolax when I first started, all Proto Gear.
Then I soloed up to Jelly King's stage with 2* gear; wolver coat/magic hood; not going to try 2 kill JK bc that heal makes it too much of a hassle + I have no interest in his gear
Then I soloed Roarmulus; confusing at first but felt a lot like Legend of Zelda - minus the high techy stuff and the little froggy machines.

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 02:41

#19

Twiddle

In a typical MMORPG, monsters

In a typical MMORPG, monsters cease to pose a threat to you after you acquire good gear. Spiral Knights is not your typical MMORPG. Spiral Knights focuses on dodging hits. You can make more mistakes in good gear, but you still need skill to get though the levels. That's the thing I like about this game. The game is still challenging even after you get good gear for the area you are in.

If you are having problems at T2 in 5* gear then you need to get better.

--edit--

Then I soloed up to Jelly King's stage with 2* gear; wolver coat/magic hood; not going to try 2 kill JK bc that heal makes it too much of a hassle + I have no interest in his gear.

Jelly king is the one fight where your gear matters more than your skill. If you go to Jelly King with less than optimal gear then you'll get clobbered. But other than that this is a skill based game. (=

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 03:08

#20

Cuppy-Cake

ORLY

I was about to make a thread complaining the game was way too easy....

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 09:24

#21

Sillty

Same here, Strudal. JK seems

Same here, Strudal. JK seems easy now that I beat him, as does most of T2. And I'm miles away from 4-star gear, so it'll take forever to unlock T3.. for now it's way too easy. :(

I think what would help is to make a "hard" T2 gate that has the same equipment scaling (anything up to 3-star gear gives a large benefit compared to lesser equipment, but anything above that gives little benefit) but is harder. That way players wouldn't be bored if they haven't grinded to T3 equipment yet. Otherwise I don't know if I'll keep playing until I get 4-star gear.. :(

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 09:44

#22

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

I solo'd Dauntless Delver in

I solo'd Dauntless Delver in 4* armor... with more latency than usual. My advice boils down to one line:

The best defense is "get out of the way!"

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 10:01

#23

Neo2

Legacy Username

...And you have been playing

...And you have been playing for two months?
I didn't know I was so strong.

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 10:22

#24

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

Of course you are! Your name

Of course you are! Your name is Neo! Neo is the master of getting out of the way! ... of bullets!

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 10:28

#25

Neo2

Legacy Username

Yea, and I have beat Vanaduke

Yea, and I have beat Vanaduke with a proto gun.

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 19:31

#26

Lazypinoy

LOLWUT.

I've played just as long as you have my friend and I also have 5 star equips. This game is about trading blows with your enemy and trying not to get hit. If you keep dying then you're probably using crappy sword with no knockback, a glass shield, and running around naked. Use DA, Vog Cub, and Shivermist. Can't go wrong with that.. unless you have absolutely no skills.

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 21:04

#27

Ilikebread

Lol, what do you wear chaos

Lol, what do you wear chaos armor or something?

Your attacks are suppose to interrupt theirs. So pick your mobs wisely and don't slash and bash into the middle of a bunch. Tier 2 isn't very hard. I've seen two star armor guys make it to the end easily. Their secret?: these guys rampage so fast, wolvers couldn't land a hit.

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Difficulty of the game.