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Shock is OP for Devil-ITs

37 replies [Last post]
Sat, 07/23/2011 - 13:37
ExLegend
Legacy Username

The Devil-ITs can throw-attack so quick, the effects of shock will stack because of how it makes you put down your shield and pretty much immobilizes you for a good half a second. So in a fight against 7-10 or so Devil-ITs, you'll continuously get shocked due to:

- Devilite throw attacks being too quick in general (this might not be apparent when there's only a couple of them, but when there's several around, it becomes more noticeable).
- 7-second shock status effect.
- Immobilization for half a second (at least 2-3 times during the status effect).
- By the time you're trying to avoid a couple of attacks and/or shield from the status effects of shock from Devilites (again, their throw attacks are ridiculously quicker compared to most other enemies), you become immobilized due to shock, another Devilite shocks you, and you have to repeat the process.

I realize there's armor to offset shock effects (my armor is neutral towards shock attacks), but I shouldn't HAVE to equip it just to have a fighting chance against a group of Devil-ITs.

I propose either slowing down the Devilite throw attacks, reduce the time for shock effects, or do something about the half-second shock immobilization. The fact that I can easily be chained into a series of shock status effects is ridiculous.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 13:45
#1
Madadder's picture
Madadder
instead of complaining get

instead of complaining get that shock resistance

they nerfed shock already before u took the damage regardless if you shielded or not

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 14:26
#2
Quasirandom's picture
Quasirandom
That's why you carry

That's why you carry condition removal capsules. Well, you do, don't you?

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 14:56
#3
ExLegend
Legacy Username
1) Again, I shouldn't HAVE to

1) Again, I shouldn't HAVE to get shock resistance to stand a fighting chance against a group of them. I can take fire, ice, curse, what have you. But shock is just too overpowered with these Devilites. In an enclosed space, they can dominate you.

2) It's kind of hard when the game doesn't give you any. Or when you're being shocked.

Shock by itself isn't a huge deal. It's the shock coupled with the Devilites throw attacks speed that's the problem. Their throwing speed is ridiculous. When there's a group of them, coupled with shock status effects, you're pretty much screwed. If there should be a resolve to this problem, it should be to slow down the throw attacks of Devilites or slow down their rate of throw attacks.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 14:48
#4
Madadder's picture
Madadder
well i dont have to have fire

well i dont have to have fire resistance yet its a huge help in FSC why dont we say fire is also OP

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 14:54
#5
ExLegend
Legacy Username
Because fire doesn't

Because fire doesn't immobilize you for a second (namely from shielding), making you susceptible to ANOTHER status effect attack, effectively making a (potential) endless chain of status effects. At least with fire you can still block and/or have a chance of running away without being hit again.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 14:55
#6
Madadder's picture
Madadder
what are you talking

what are you talking about.... i rarely if ever get hit while shocked. when shocked i run and shield, i know how to avoid the enemies. its not like fire where you take the damage even when shielding

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 15:14
#7
ExLegend
Legacy Username
Once you're immobilized from

Once you're immobilized from getting shocked, you're completely helpless. You can't run OR shield when you're actually getting shocked from the status effect, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Yes, you can shield the shock itself, but you're still immobilized for a short amount of time. You can't avoid anything. All you can do is take it and hope you shield fast enough to block another shock attack. Of course, as I mentioned before, the Devilite throwing attacks are so quick, you can't really do much to avoid them when there's a small group around you. And by that point, your shield breaks, and you're pretty much screwed.

Again, this isn't necessarily a complaint about shock. But rather, shock when it comes to Devil-ITs.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 15:18
#8
Madadder's picture
Madadder
you're immobile for a second

you're immobile for a second or less, you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. wow you get hit once its not the end of the world just run away. this hyperbole you seem to think is how things are is simply not true

have we forgotten unless you solo u got teammates, you have cover from blocks and the like, you should know immediately when you see a devilite to put up your shield. dont complain to OOO for things you should do to prevent your own demise

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 15:25
#9
Nodocchi's picture
Nodocchi
I'm not sure if you are aware

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but there are 3 special damage types and each monster deals one of these damage types and is vulnerable to one of these damage types. This is to encourage players to plan ahead when doing a dungeon and making sure they have the right armour and weapons to get the job done effectively. i.e. Have weapons which deal the damage type the monsters in the dungeon are weak to and have armour that is resistant to the damage type dealt by the monsters. This of course, extends to status effects as well, namely players should wear armor that are resistant to the status ailments most commonly afflicted by the monsters in the dungeon they are delving.

Yes, in theory you don't have to worry about any of this, but actually thinking about what you're wearing before you go in a dungeon would make your trip a heck of a lot easier. Otherwise make sure you have the skill to get the job done.

Also, if you don't have fire resist in Firestorm Citadel in tier 3, one burn basically equals to half your HP gone with no way to prevent it except remedy capsules and water balls.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 15:40
#10
ExLegend
Legacy Username
Perhaps you're not reading my

Perhaps you're not reading my posts correctly monkeyman? Let's try a simpler method:

- You're immobile for a second or less MULTIPLE TIMES within the same status effect. This can leave you easily susceptible to an endless chain of status effects.

- You can't simply "run away". If you didn't stop to shield every other second or so, you'll get shocked, which in turn leave completely open for ANOTHER shocking attack, causing you to repeat the process (in T3's case, a whole 'nother 7 seconds).

- When fighting a group of Devil-ITs, once you shield, they can catch up to you VERY quickly due to their moving speed. They also execute their throwing attacks VERY quickly, giving you little to no time to react in a CQC fight when fighting a group of them.

- By the time you stop to shield the effects of shock, you're not only shielding from the status of effect of shock, you're also shielding from a barrage of hardware being thrown from the Devil-ITs. In turn, this causes your shielding power to diminish very quickly.

- Once your shield breaks, you are effectively screwed if you're in an arena or a closed space.

We're not talking about one or two enemies here, but Devil-ITs. They can potentially group up close to 10 or so (from my experience).

I realize that in certain scenarios, certain pieces of equipment can BENEFIT you greatly. But that's all they should be, a benefit, not a requirement. I've gotten by through every level (even FSC up uptil Vanaduke) without any kind of status resistance or enemy buff before. Why is it that it's only with Devil-ITs that I suddenly need special equipment? For reasons already given, they're too overpowered when in a group.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 15:47
#11
Nodocchi's picture
Nodocchi
You obviously do not have the

You obviously do not have the skills to fight Devil-ITs without the benefit of equipment good against them. Don't blame the game for skills that you are lacking. The game wasn't meant to be easy, especially in tier 3.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 01:13
#12
ExLegend
Legacy Username
Typical response from a

Typical response from a person who doesn't have a valid rebuttal.

This entire game is incredibly easy sans Vanaduke. It's meant to be played by little kids for crap's sake. I provided legitimate, detailed reasons as to why Devil-ITs in groups are overpowered. Yet the only response you can come up with "you don't have enough skill."

How about come up with a legitimate rebuttal, then get back to me.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 16:07
#13
Nodocchi's picture
Nodocchi
Honestly I don't know what to

Honestly I don't know what to tell you, whenever I face those devilites in tier 3 I always wear the appropriate gear and have no trouble with them at all. I already gave you my advice on wearing appropriate gear which you ignored by saying you shouldn't need to have to wear specific gear for certain levels. Well my response to that was sure, you don't have to wear appropriate gear if you have enough skill, but you obviously don't since you are having trouble with them.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 16:08
#14
Madadder's picture
Madadder
prehaps you arent getting it

prehaps you arent getting it Exlegend

- yes you are shocked multiple times OVER A PERIOD OF TIME there is a short delay in between each spasm more than enough to get some distance

- same as above you can get some distance and by the time the devilite is back in range the spasm would have hit and you can move again. even if you do get hit there ist a 100% chance of the shock reapplication

- its called using cover to block the hits. if none is available make wide arcs around the monster and wait for the opportunity

-yes it does that should be an indication to get away from there or avoid them until ur shield is back

- this is on the player's head when their shield breaks. you really need to learn crowd control tactics is all i can say

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 19:29
#15
Draycos's picture
Draycos
http://media.photobucket.com/

http://media.photobucket.com/image/facepalm/iguana_tonante/pics/Sisko-fa...

You can be very good at games and still fail at fighting devilites because they ATTACK FASTER THAN YOU CAN LINK BASIC ATTACKS. WITH A FLOURISH. A FLOURISHHH.

Even with Normal/Shadow armor, even with a Crest of Almire, you aren't invincible. When there's something you just cannot avoid, you just take the hit or have a broken shield, which is common with Shock.

Arenas. Devilites. Gun/Rocket puppies. Face that combination and you'll know what I mean by 'you can't run'. Or any Drudgery/Dark City area where you can't run away the way you came, behind a barrier or otherwise. Additionally, the times where Devilites are most grouped together are commonly in places where you have no cover, or breakable cover which most likely will be gone because of how you have to swarm around the place just to land a single hit on a single Devilite.

There are times when you won't get many capsules or remedies, if at all, sometimes not even a vitapod. It's not skill, sometimes, it's luck. Pure luck. If you don't believe that, then I've got two words... 'Lag', and 'Spike'.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 01:28
#16
ExLegend
Legacy Username
- Short delays do not mean

- Short delays do not mean jack shi* when you're in an arena or enclosed space.

- There's a much higher chance than you think, especially when there's 10 devilites around you.

- Again, wide arcs do nothing if you're in an enclosed space and there's crap being thrown at you from three different directions.

- Three words: Arena. Enclosed space. Where are you going to run to, the wall?

- Crowd control tactics? If I swing once, I'm screwed because there's 9 other devilites about ready to throw crap at me in a small space. At which point is there tactics involved? By the way, if you're using tactics in a simple-minded hack-n-slash game like this, you might be using too much of your mind power there.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 02:06
#17
cloud027
Legacy Username
I agree with Exlegend

I agree with Exlegend that devilites are bs at times when they gang up on you. When get shocked of course u might not have any remedy pills which is most of the time which only leaves you with the option to block but what good is it if u get shocked and ur immobilized while blocking that only leaves u open for many of the other devilites that are waiting for u to get shocked while blocking which then those devilites break ur shield in like 2 - 3 hits then what good is it if when ur shield gets broken becuz of the many devilites speed of attack which render u vulnerable in the next 2 seconds because of the shock that comes every 2 seconds which would leave u hopeless and without a shield also leaving u open for devilites to take even more damage while the shock effect is being applied to you which would then restart the cycle of being shocked for 7 seconds which is bs. Ofcourse u can avoid the hardware they throw at u but what good is it if u have to keep on running around the arena like 20 times without being able to attack becuz the moment u attack i am certain that there will be other devilites ready to be on the offensive and what skill is there if u have to run around in circles to avoid being hit which would be useless if u are trying to defeat the devilites.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 07:45
#18
Nodocchi's picture
Nodocchi
@Exlegend Read

@Exlegend
Read this: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/12793
This game is not simple-minded, aside from the complex economy it has a fairly elegant combat system that rewards player skill and preparation. With enough shock resistance you will rarely get shocked and when you do you either suffer only one spasm or no spasms at all. Not everyone treats this as some mindless hack and slash game where you trade hits with monsters and hope you come out on top. As I've already said before, either use the appropriate gear for the dungeon you are doing, or become better at the game.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 09:18
#19
Madadder's picture
Madadder
Exlegend instead of

Exlegend instead of complaining learn to play dont beg OOO to make things easy devilites arent as big of a threat as u seem to think

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 10:45
#20
Quasirandom's picture
Quasirandom
"But shock is just too

"But shock is just too overpowered with these Devilites. In an enclosed space, they can dominate you."

Where do you fight shock devilites in a small enclosed space where you don't have room to maneuver against them? Clockwork tunnels, devilish drudgery, and battle arenas all give you ample room to maneuver against devilites. Some ritual road and sinful steps arenas do not, but those don't have shock devilites.

"If there should be a resolve to this problem, it should be to slow down the throw attacks of Devilites or slow down their rate of throw attacks."

I think the solution is for you to learn how to fight devilites. If you don't shield until you see one attacking, it's too late.

"Once you're immobilized from getting shocked, you're completely helpless. You can't run OR shield when you're actually getting shocked from the status effect, so I'm not sure what you're talking about."

Shock only intermittently stops you. Freeze, on the other hand, makes it so that you cannot move at all until the status effect is removed.

"You can't simply "run away". If you didn't stop to shield every other second or so, you'll get shocked, which in turn leave completely open for ANOTHER shocking attack, causing you to repeat the process"

I can and do, everywhere that I've come across devilites. You can run quite a bit between shocks, you know, and devilites don't chase that fast. It's not like they're greavers, or even mecha knights.

You can also dodge even without a shield. If you're solo, run in a wide circle around them and they'll all miss.

"I've gotten by through every level (even FSC up uptil Vanaduke) without any kind of status resistance or enemy buff before."

So you can kill zombies in FSC. That's nice. Zombies are cake. The first time I did Ashen Armory, I didn't even get hit the entire level. Just because you can kill easy enemies doesn't mean you're good at the game. And it doesn't mean that you know how to fight harder enemies, as apparently you don't.

"This entire game is incredibly easy sans Vanaduke."

I don't recall seeing shock devilites in the Vanaduke fight. Therefore, you're claiming that shock devilites are "incredibly easy". So what are you complaining about, again?

"Again, wide arcs do nothing if you're in an enclosed space and there's crap being thrown at you from three different directions."

Where do you have 10 devilites throwing stuff at you in a small enclosed space? A large enclosed space such as an entire level doesn't count, as there's plenty of room to maneuver there. You might be able to get to 10 in the second arena of Sinful Steps if you trigger both spawns at once, but that's just a case of being stupid, and those aren't shock devilites.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 14:38
#21
ExLegend
Legacy Username
xiax - You think too highly

xiax - You think too highly of a children's game developed by a no-name developer published by a company that has been in the crapper for years now.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 14:54
#22
cloud027
Legacy Username
LOL

I like how all of u guys that think that devilites are easy to beat think that ur pro on a little kids game xD

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 14:59
#23
Madadder's picture
Madadder
bottom line here if they are

bottom line here if they are going to nerf anything it will be the devilite attack animation not shock since they already did that

but this is purely up to OOO so in the mean time u could at least to get better at dealing with them

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 15:11
#24
cloud027
Legacy Username
you must seem to be really

you must seem to be really slow monkeyman becuz this whole argument is about the devilites not the shock itself becuz shock is something anyone can handle but its just the damage/attack speed of the devilites that is overpowered in this case.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 15:16
#25
Madadder's picture
Madadder
i think you are the one thats

i think you are the one thats slow cloud

I propose either slowing down the Devilite throw attacks, reduce the time for shock effects, or do something about the half-second shock immobilization. The fact that I can easily be chained into a series of shock status effects is ridiculous.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 15:21
#26
cloud027
Legacy Username
if you were to nerf the

if you were to nerf the damage of the devilites or slow down the attack speed then the devilites wouldn't be overpowered with shock but becuz of the damage/attack speed that they have which makes their shock ability able to make them chain becuz of their attack speed which makes them able to do a reset on you.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 15:27
#27
Madadder's picture
Madadder
i like how u didnt try to

i like how u didnt try to denounce the post i made before this one

why not just make shock non reapplicable until the shock already applied wears off

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 17:02
#28
cloud027
Legacy Username
if u were to that then it

if u were to do that then it would have to apply to all of the other elemental effects which would make the game too easy.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 15:55
#29
ExLegend
Legacy Username
On the contrary monkeyman,

On the contrary monkeyman, you can clearly see that my first proposition was to reduce the speed of the throw attacks. So that makes cloud027 right.

Again, for clarity: It's the shock IN CONJUNCTION with the devilite's throwing speed that make them overpowered. Any other enemy is fine (more or less). Now that we seem to all agree that devilites throw too quickly, we just need to make our voices heard by Three Rings.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 17:26
#30
Madadder's picture
Madadder
but that wasnt your only

but that wasnt your only proposition though so this could go either way it doesnt matter

by now OOO knows it and either are or arent in the process of making it happen

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 19:29
#31
Mohandar's picture
Mohandar
Dark Briar Barrage

Just run around in circles dropping DBBs, and they'll be dropping like flies before you know it. The trick is to stay on the move; they'll track you, but 90% of the time all their attacks will miss. Like greavers, Devil-IT (and devilites in general) require a different strategy than the slash-shield-slash-shield that works almost everywhere else.

A little more charge time would be nice though. Lumbers pull out their attack nearly as fast, but they don't dodge around unpredictably; it makes sense to lengthen Devilite attack charge time. On the other hand, they are already one of the most fragile enemies.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 19:54
#32
Quasirandom's picture
Quasirandom
I just did a devilish

I just did a devilish drudgery/wired for synergy level that is basically all shock devilites. I also just did a power complex/infernal passage level that had a lot of shock devilites. Thunder fist arena/fiendish fray is the only other level that has shock devilites that I know of, and that doesn't have many.

I did get shocked by them a couple of times. And you know what I did when shocked? I ran away and dodged. I didn't get hit again while shocked. I don't see what the problem is here, other than that a lot of people flagrantly don't know how to fight devilites. Fire devilites are substantially nastier than shock devilites.

Sun, 07/24/2011 - 21:17
#33
Nodocchi's picture
Nodocchi
@Exlegend The graphics may be

@Exlegend
The graphics may be cutesy, but a lot of game mechanics appeal more to older gamers rather than children, so yes, I am giving OOO some credit and don't think this is just another half-assed childrens game. Complex player driven economy, encouragement of experimentation in combat and equipment, and rewarding patience and planning all point at this game being more appealing to an older audience. If this was to be aimed at children, there would be more mini-games to interest them due to their shorter attention span, and the game wouldn't be nearly as punishing when you get hit even once.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 21:18
#34
raxxok
Legacy Username
shock causes a stun and

shock causes a stun and during that stun you get one shot, which is total bs and makes you angry. I play with 1 red bar about 400 ping and shock is total bs as i am bound to get hit every now and then from lag but one hit from shock and it's a waste of 10 energy.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 22:43
#35
elmotactics
Legacy Username
what about...

What about the people who use armor with negative shock resist, aka Mad Bomber? That's personally what I use, because I know that I am skilled enough to offset the negative resistances (except in FSC but that's another matter :-P). However, what I think everyone is failing to realize here is that fiends are hands down the hardest monsters in groups to take down regardless of equipment, and shock just makes it even more difficult. You shouldn't have to make shock resist for the 1 random fiend/shock level that you encounter in a tier.

As for everyone that says "just run away", have you ever tried running away from multiple shock devilites while you have shock applied to you? It doesn't work. They move faster than anything besides t3 wolvers, and attack faster than anything period. Regardless how far you could possibly run before you spasm, they would be on you again, reapplying shock in the process. You can have full shock resist and still get effed. There is no skill in not being able to defend yourself. If you are an idiot and sit in front of a rocket puppy until your shield breaks and then complain about it when you get blown up, that is not skill. When you legitimately can not do anything to keep from having shock reapplied to you because of the overpowered combination of the shock mechanic and the devilites attack speed, no amount of skill can help you. Similar to when you get handed a bunch of poison bats in t3. You cannot outrun them, they WILL break your shield (unless you happen to have a lvl 10 5 star snorlax bomb you can spam), and you will be unable to heal yourself for 15+ seconds, during which you have already died.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 23:04
#36
LoUCipher
Legacy Username
2 cents

I've read both arguments, and here was my first experience in the matter.

I played down to the last Basil Spot, first time getting that far down, and my whole team started dropping there potions saying they were going Up. I was like C'mon 3 more and were at the end! The guy replied, "nah, the shock damage is bs". To which I replied "Fk that Im going." to which he responded "You Will Die." Oh how ominous that was...lol

Outta the gate five steps I was greeted by 7 devil's and they're chairs, before I could think to dodge i was already shocked to death. I mean full health + a 12 vitapod Gone in 2.5 secs. It was actually pretty d*mn funny how fast I did die.

I made it down that far w/o reviving Once by dodging, blocking, trying not to tank all damage, playin' smart and I did not stand a chance against 7 of those. I am saving for the Wyrmwood braclet to try again, but this wasn't like a boss fight, this is outta the gate first enemies waxing you.

either way imma try again, better protected and hopefully my team comes with me next time. ha

just my 2 cents.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 23:22
#37
ExLegend
Legacy Username
@LoUCipher - I encountered a

@LoUCipher - I encountered a similar situation albeit I was actually with another guy. We picked ourselves up twice each. We were OBLITERATED by 10+ Devil-ITs surrounded by spikes. We didn't stand a chance.

I think it's safe to say we aren't the only people who believe that changes need to made to the devilites. They're just ridiculously quick in every way. OOO, hear our pleas and do something~

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