Spiral Knights - Heat Tanks

Heat Tanks

20 replies [Last post]

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 04:17

obsothoth

Legacy Username

Would like to propose an extra mechanism to manage Heat in the game: Heat Tanks.

Heat Tanks would be craftable items and come in various sizes from small to large, and can be used to store excess Heat a Knight earns once he has maxed out all his gear. Once a Heat Tank is filled, it can be used on any item to transfer its accumulated Heat, consuming the Heat Tank. The Heat Tank is then lost.

The Heat Tanks would be specific to each item tier: 1 star Heat Tanks would be used to level 1 star items and 5 star Heat Tanks would be used on 5 star items. The capacity of the Heat Tanks would be higher for each tier, and should be able to grant a full item level to an item at level five. I do not really have a rationale for that figure, but it seems like a decent arbitrary amount.

The Heat Tanks would work off the current recipe/crafting system in that knights will have to purchase recipes and spend currency and materials to craft them. The difference is that the Heat Tank would be the first craftable, consumable trade item in the game. Also, since they are consumable, they should cost less to craft then standard items.

Of course, filled and empty Heat Tanks would be tradable on the AH. That's almost the whole point of this idea.

This proposal is beneficial to the player economy and OOO for a number of reasons:

1) Consumable items always have a higher turnover rate then permanent gear. Ergo, prices will be more likely to stay high, and not drop to irritatingly low levels like the current crafting market has, even in times of high energy prices.

2) It provides free players something else to offer energy buyers other then crowns. Meaning, energy buyers have yet another delicious crown sink. Increase item level requirements for crafting further and this idea will really take off. (No one is going to buy Heat amplifiers: Dubious returns, high cost)

3) It's Heat collection outsourcing. Outsourcing is always good. Creates jobs. Our economy needs more jobs!

4) No more wasted Heat. I always chafe when I see a brimming Heat meter and my items are all maxed out.

5) Inclusion of Heat as a currency to go along with energy, and crowns. More options for people to invest in. More options are good by default.

6) There will always be demand for Heat.

That's all I can think of for the moment. What do you guys think?

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 06:32

Negazero

-1

This would throw off the time of going in dungeons to get heat.Then all you need to do is craft it.It would be a waste of time because people would want to get crowns,heat,items,etc,then just craft something to make 1 thing better.

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 06:51

obsothoth

Legacy Username

What?

When a Heat Tank is crafted it is of course, empty. You would have to fill up the tank with the excess Heat you obtain.

I have not proposed to craft Heat.

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 07:13

Memento

Legacy Username

I find this brilliant, and I

I find this brilliant, and I hope that your proposal will be listened.
I hate having all my gear maxed out and waste all that heat.. and yeah, being a heat seller would be great.

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 10:22

Madadder

-1

1.u need have filled heat tanks untradeable empty tanks i dont have a problem

2. have tanks on a 30 day expiration timer like trinkets and weapon slots

3. in correlation to 1. this idea takes away time spend in dungeons needed to heat an item(the main point of this game is to go through the dungeons) so having them tradeable when filled is very bad

Outsourcing is always good
i kinda want to hit u for this statement...

counter proposal:

have craftable untradeable 30 day tanks of various capacities and introduce a new heat-centric method of "deconstructing items" and other services

1. naturally heat needs a numeric indicator for this to work so thats a given

2. a special alchemy machine or a tabbed section on current alchemy machines are also need

3. instead of energy you pay in crowns and a heat amount

4a. the basic idea is to place an item into the machine and have it broken for a portion of the energy that is need to create that weapon and some of the materials (i say a gamble of 1%-30% of the energy needed to make the item is returned and a random array of the materials)

granted this is just off the top of my head and i doubt it will work so here is something else

4b. material crafting through the use of heat: u take an array simple materials and combine them to make something else using heat instead of energy (whether this is a preexisting in the current SK or brand new material made for this i dont know).

so...10 scrap metals equal a iron gear, 20 scrap metal+ 10 bronze bolts + 2 gremlin gizmo= rocket sprocket... etc

to make things fair have a % chance of failure based on the star level.

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 12:36

Boolet

Legacy Username

@Monkey ...orrr heat tanks

@Monkey

...orrr heat tanks could merely be a trinket slot item.

Thereby requiring you to equip them, binding it to yourself.

Unbinding removes all heat.

Problem solved.

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 12:41

Madadder

never really thought of that

never really thought of that i guess that would work

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 16:31

Bigfootm

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 18:10

Soulstaker

-1

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 18:59

obsothoth

Legacy Username

Would like longer explanations

"3. in correlation to 1. this idea takes away time spend in dungeons needed to heat an item(the main point of this game is to go through the dungeons) so having them tradeable when filled is very bad"

I do not think a lessened requirement for dungeoning is a strong argument against Heat Tanks.

Firstly, Heat Tanks are recapturing *wasted* dungeoning time because your items have to be level 10 to be able to fill a Heat Tank. Without Heat Tanks, you are wasting your own dungeoning time in terms of Heat because your items are all maxed.

The whole point of energy buying (this is why OOO created Spiral Knights; for Revenue) is so that these buyers can control their access to game content. Free players have to spend more then a month just to craft a set of 5*, while an energy buyer can have it instantly when he pays for energy (You can now buy unbounded 5* items on the AH). If an energy buyer can have in a few minutes what a free player can only have in a month, I do not think less dungeoning is a strong argument.

There is already a set number of dungeons a knight has to complete each tier before they move on to the next one. It's part of the tier requirements. If OOO wanted people to dungeon more, they can simply increase the tier requirement.

The reason why free players contribute to OOO even though they do not pay for energy is because they provide crowns for energy buyers. Crown buying already allows energy buyers to spend less time in dungeons because they do not have to farm for crowns. Heat trading is just another product that OOO can offer to energy buyers. If a person is willing to buy heat with his crowns bought by his energy, then why not let him? He has to spend his energy to get that Heat, it's just faster then using the elevator.

This is good for free players because they have another source of revenue. They can now sell their excess Heat on the AH for crowns. This is also good for energy buyers because they now have more purchasing options. The current crafting market does not work as well as it should because crafted gear is permanent and not consumable, keeping prices low and stagnant.

I am just not convinced that less dungeoning is a bad thing.

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 19:03

#10

Bigfootm

I said +1? Whoops. -1

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 20:06

#11

Madadder

obsothoth

im not opposed to the idea of heat tanks just the way the OP is suggesting how to use them

people who buy their way through the game are different because they support OOO this doesnt support them at least directly

the problem with this also is that selling these tanks for crowns causes inflation since more crowns will be pumped into the economy. they may be able to make some extra money but the bar of what they can buy with that also raises

i doubt if i ever will convince u but i will stand by my statement of less dungeoning= bad

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 20:01

#12

Dukesky

Legacy Username

I also want a use for excess Heat, but not the OP's version

I wouldn't want the Heat Tank to be consumable, and I wouldn't want it tradable (at least not when they've been used).

The star spread, meaning there's 0*, 1*, 2*, 3*, 4*, and 5* versions that can only be used on equivalent equipment seems good. The Heat Tank could even require a Misc. slot to use. I figure have the heat tanks cost the same as their respective tier equipment.

Allow unbound crafted Heat Tanks to be traded, but only if they have not been equipped (as they would bind the same as anything else). This probably means 4* and 5* Heat Tanks would be auto-bound unless their recipes are different. Any stored Heat is lost when traded, just like other equipment.

This is how I'd do it.

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 20:29

#13

obsothoth

Legacy Username

Not disagreeing

I do not disagree that less dungeoning is a bad thing. I really do not know. What I am saying is that it is irrelevant, because free players will still be doing the *same* amount of dungeoning even if they could buy Heat Tanks. I think the problem you are trying to point out is that the tanks might be cheap enough for free players to buy them. Think of it this way:

1) A free player has to dungeon to earn crowns/energy to buy Heat.

2) He buys Heat, but he still needs crowns for crafting as he spends crowns/energy earned from his dungeoning to do so.

3) He will eventually run out of currency, and will have to dungeon again.

4) When he dungeons, his items max out but he still needs crowns to buy energy for crafting.

5) So he starts wasting Heat, defeating the whole point of his Heat purchase.

See how Heat Tanks are not for free players to use? They are for free players to sell. To energy buyers. OOO has an interest in energy buyers spending their energy as quickly as possible. A free player cannot continuously dungeon and craft enough gear to be continuously using Heat. Free players always waste Heat. Heat Tanks will *not* lessen dungeoning time for free players.

There is little reason for free players to buy filled tanks, because they are always grinding for crowns, their items are always maxed out. The filled tanks are for the energy buyers to buy. Tanks are also not made for free. Firstly, there will be an energy cost to craft an empty tank. There will also be a extra hidden energy cost because you have to dungeon to fill them up.

Inflation is also not a problem because new crowns are not generated. The tanks are to be sold to players, therefore, new crowns are still only created from dungeoning. Although, I suppose you still could vendor them like all other items for very very cheap (500 crowns for a full 5* tank that cost 200+ energy to craft and fill?), which makes it a huge loss on the part of the seller.

Edit:
Actually a permanent, bound version does sound decent as well. That's another angle to it.

I'm just really disappointed in the crafting market now, and I attribute it to the lack of consumables, not really cut throat sellers.

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 20:40

#14

Madadder

there is not free players or

there is not free players or energy players in actuality. sure players can buy a lump sum of CE for real money but it isnt like free players cant obtain a lot of CE. free players like myself CAN continuously run through the clockworks because i earn enough of a margin in crowns to buy energy.

heating an item up is one of the main things about SK that makes it what it is. i am all for gathering heat for a purpose but selling them to those that cut corners on their own weapon heating i dont like

i still think a material crafting with the use of heat is a better way to go

Sun, 07/31/2011 - 22:03

#15

Psychorazer

I just want a different use.

At present, all my equipment is at max heat level. I pick up TONNES of heat when I go hunting for cr. Like the consumable Vials and Mecha kits, it all goes to waste when I finish the dungeon.

I mean, maybe the heat tanks could store the heat, but it slowly drains away over day periods? I mean, it IS heat, and as an energy type, cannot currently be store 100% efficiently.

I game terms, I mean if you just went to gather heat with maxed equipment, when you get something new, It'll be maxed heat level in like 5 seconds. I've spent like 3 weeks with the same equipment set, and the heat amount I've gathered must be enough to max level all the equipment of 4 new players by now.

I just want a different use for heat. Reduce elevator cost, reduce crafting cost, storage, whatever, I just need a new use.

Thu, 08/04/2011 - 15:54

#16

OrangeHero

Legacy Username

LIVE

I was wondering why this thread died, it seems like such a nice idea to implement. i cring seeing the loss of all that heat and heat tanks would make me feel better, knowing that i can fill 'em up and make a profit off it.

Thu, 08/04/2011 - 22:29

#17

Psychorazer

Yeah...for the past week or so...losing all that heat...I suddenly feel cold...

Fri, 08/05/2011 - 09:27

#18

Soulstaker

-1

This will ruin the game then.OOO will always have their reason

Fri, 08/05/2011 - 09:39

#19

werfjig

Legacy Username

I've heard a discussion like

I've heard a discussion like this before. One issue I would have is that this system would eliminate the need to actually use an item to level it up. You would be able to stick with one gear the entire game and manage to level up other gears in the process, which I see as game-breaking. One of the joys I personally get from the game is using different gear to make it more powerful, so bypassing that process would dampen the fun for me personally. Making the tanks craftable would could possibly work as a counter-balance, but it's not a feature I would ever use. Just my opinion.

A larger issue would be making these up for trade. The ability to sell heat tanks would create a way for players to literally buy their way to 5* gear immediately. That doesn't sound very reasonable.

Fri, 08/05/2011 - 15:31

#20

Psychorazer

Craft and perma bind?

Maybe as a 'Back-story' feature, that the Heat tank is a craftable upgrade to your suit that allows you to store heat? So cuz it's a part of your suit, it LITERALLY bound to you, so you can't unbind and sell it. And you can only heat bound gear, so you can't heat something then sell it.

Or just make another use for it, like using it to fuse mats together into better mats? Like mini-crafting?

Crafting takes mats and energy.
Mini-crafting takes lesser mats and heat to make better mats.

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