"But really, one hit ko's is the easiest problem to avoid. just reduce all weapon damage by 50% or some other useful arbitrary number."

But then wouldn't that be 2hitKO? O well. that would be better than 1hitKO.

"Don't ask for peoples stuff though, this isnt a bazzar topic...."

I can't help it. lol =P

So you want them to completely rebalance every weapon armor and trinket to be pvp compatible when the majority of the player base wants no part of direct knight vs knight combat? Bomberman is a good start. Obviously we aren't still playing our snes' today, it isn't a golden formula for endless fun. But its good for 15 minutes of catharsis for a few weeks until we get something meatier, which absolutely should follow more of a competitive pve or minigame trend than a direct pvp formula.

Everything about the game's combat is related to timing and positioning, the way every monster telegraphs their attacks and attack direction and damage type and everything follows a pattern. 2 dudes running at or around each other clicking and being effected by lag is a meaningless competition. There isn't skill, you can't predict someone is going to click half a world away and shield it or dodge it, you can only wiggle randomly to try to throw off their aim. There's no strategy beyond choosing your equipment beforehand which will boil down to 'most people have normal/elemental armor so i'll take a pierce/shadow sentenza'. Depending on the map people might find a use for corner camping with bombs or something, but ultimately direct knight vs knight is just not a road worth exploring.

"So you want them to completely rebalance every weapon armor and trinket "
No, I never said that, nice job wise guy. I said make new ones. They could be based off of old ones, and i gave exaples. You don't consider gran faust a torkia variant just cause they have a 2 hit combo and good reach?

"when the majority of the player base wants no part of direct knight vs knight combat?"
You can't prove that, I'd say it's about 50-50, but I say pvp is a tiebreaker, becuase it can be removed.

"Bomberman is a good start"
Allright, fair enough, we needed a no energy no preperation game to start it. I just think it won't get any better, dispite the fact that people keep saying "oh well OOO said there is more to come"

"2 dudes running at or around each other clicking and being effected by lag is a meaningless competition"
That's completely wrong. Every player vs player will have lag, and clicking dueds. It's just the way it is, if you don't like that, you just don't like multiplayer internet games. And in the end, it's a video game, it's all a way to happily meaninglessly spend my free time.

"There isn't skill, you can't predict someone is going to click half a world away and shield it or dodge it, you can only wiggle randomly to try to throw off their aim."
Also not true at all. I play quake live, and you can predict where your opponents gonna shoot, especialy with rocket's or the plasma gun.

You say that gate modes are based off of predicting what will happen. I think it's about what's being tod what will happen, you see a little flash everytime something tries to kill you. And that's the beauty of PVP, you don't see it coming.

i made a double post somehow? Fail.

Go look at the thread ( http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/9022 ) where devs asked us about our pvp preferences, it was resoundingly in favor of 'mario party' style as opposed to 'counterstrike'. Quake is a much different beast from spiral knights, strafing and leading your shots or trying to predict when a direction change will occur makes sense in a fast paced fps. If we can't shield in time to stop devilite tosses we sure as hell cannot shield in time to stop an antigua line bullet and we certainly don't move fast enough to get out of a well centered gaint 180 degree heavy sword cleave. And why shield at all then accept to shield cancel and attack faster? Assuming the combatants are on equal footing itemwise it's largely just who hits first followed by spaming attacks and wiggling and hoping more of your hits land, which is clearly what went on in beta judging by these videos. Wither you want all new items or rehauled old ones that's still a great deal of balancing and work that could be better spent on more pve content.
If you want beta pvp back you are just in the minority I'm afraid. Any of the dozens of suggestions since that thread about competitive pve or minigame modes sounds magnitudes funner.

@Actinium
Good point, quake is a different animal from spiral knights, and it wanst my best analogy. I know most people voted for mario cart style, but I think my idea of pvp is like that. I'm going for a smash bros difficulty. You can play it relaxed or like a pro. Seems win-win. I'm not really going for beta PVP, I've just proposed that we make specific pvp items, normal damage only, etc, on other threads, as a test run. What I'm mad about is three rings not actualy doing anything new. Bomberman isnt impressive or original in any way, dispite being fun. I already could play bomberman on the internet, so why play it on spiral knights? The only insentive to play bomberman is to get the new items, and I don't think that's good enough. It could still be minigame style, but I really just want them to make somehting that isn't obviously based off of an old game. It just ain't cool :/. And for the record, I can block devilmites; Cause I'm BOSS, get it, boss? Devilmites? Pun!

I know what you mean, the bombs just go "Poof!" instantly in bomberman, as opposed to going "bom bom bom bom" like a napalm strike moving across the floor, in a more dogeable but seneable pattern. And you don't always stay in the rows pac-man style, causing your pinky finger to hang off the edge resulting in an unexspected death. But it's still to simmilar, why else would everyone call it bomberman? And Don't bunch me up with the WOWPVP people, I've never played wow, and I don't want PVP that is just like any other game. I'm mostly just asking for somehting original, that isnt so obviously based off something.

and leaving it at that? There were some of you who did that, a very few. But then the rest of you just seem like a bunch of ***holes who cry everytime something doesn't come out the way they want. I hate people like that. ANYWAY, I think the Blast Network game wasn't all that good either. But the idea of going against other knights in a Roman gladiator type match doesn't appeal to me either. In fact, lag would play a big part in that, and in anything else too, but seriously, moving on. If I don't want to play it, I won't. The Lockdown game though, just off the name, may appeal to me. But, don't judge a book by it's cover, don't judge a game by it's title. Advice: Sit tight, and at least try and wait for improvements and changes.
P.S.- For the beta players who liked the old PvP, your precious minigame may be improved, by having sword, gun and bomb battles separately.

Or they'll ban YOU for swearing. However, I'd be happy enough if they banned you for creating stupid, run on sentances. :D
I'm trying to help them out, becuase I like the game. Unliek you, who runs around using text chat as opposed to periods, typing things like;

"hey im ironbrofist i liek goun on th fms cuz im 2 kool and i can tipe and spell guud and talk to smart ppl, wah wah wah wahhhh"