You do realize that they're entitled to using fabricated figures as examples in order to better convey their point, correct? It's doubtful that there's a set "low" for energy costs such as the one stated; they just gave you an example to better illustrate their point.

That being said, it's been stated MULTIPLE times that OOO has very little/no input on the user-driven market aside from whatever the users decide to do after an update with their crowns or energy. The only sway they have is based on the types of updates that are released, and I doubt that "crashing" an energy market of any kind is going to decide what kinds of updates they put out in the future.

That being said, just to be a troll about it, let's play the devil's advocate here for a moment. Let's say someone like... well, me, decided to go buy up all the energy you were selling for next to nothing. I've got enough crowns saved up to where I can make at least part of this statement a reality. Not to mention the simple fact that you're forgetting that while energy is an arguably limited supply (at least in CE form), that crowns gained from tier diving are only as limited as the amount of energy used to gain them. Meaning someone can easily go on a mist energy dive, gain 1000 to 2000 crowns (whatever the price may be), and buy your limited resource of CE out using a renewable resource of ME, thus making your plan arguably a failure in every respect.

In short, your plan's not going to work for three reasons - misunderstanding of the market system (OOO has no direct manipulation of the market system aside from updates, and that's hardly considered a "direct manipulation of prices" as much as it is "appeal to the users who in turn change the tide of the market), lack of promotion to a wide area of players (it's safe to assume that the forums don't form a large amount of the userbase to begin with), and lack of understanding in basic economics in general (if supply is high and demand is high, prices will remain stable, it's when supply is high and demand is low that prices drop, and energy is always in demand, regardless of what you might think).

Naruchico, I'm gonna be honest with you.

Before the large influx of Steam players, I myself did try to attempt the very thing you suggested, half for a misguided altruistic sense, half to just see if I could. I had 25k CE, and went to it.

Guess how much I affected the market by? By 500 crowns, the effects lasting for half a day.

I don't even know how your calculations got 22k CE in the first place (and this is after the Steam influx, so you've got an even larger user economy to go against), but you'll barely do anything, especially not more than one or two days at best.

You overestimate the power of a few 100k CE, and underestimate how much people are actually playing this game.

Several million crowns just to drop it by a few hundred CR for a matter of hours or days.

At 2k, everyone in the server is gonna hoard CE until prices shoot back up to 4 or 5k again. Good luck.

I see. Your numbers and methods for calculations are way off. Your first sentence already shows that to me: markets are in no way as linear as you think they are.

Ignoring the large market of non-economic-aware players, you have the relative handful of economic-aware players that likely have dozens of more CE than 100k, who jump on board to buy up CE as it reaches their willingness to buy truckloads.

Still ignoring everyone else besides CE hoarders and those in your "group", you still overestimate your purchasing power. Even if you increased your effects tenfold to have the market power of 1million CE, I don't doubt there are dozens of those in the CE hoarder camp that will (in a non-colluded method) match your efforts one by one, just due to how much experience they've had in SK's current market before. I'm hoping your join date is much longer than the implied date I see on the boards, because I'm a relative newbie at this game yet I understand there are people who have dozens more CE than me right now (where I'm at 47k CE), who also have in our best interests to keep the prices of CE up

:/

Don't forget me I am going to stock of CE after I get my dusker coat.I will upgrade my owlitte shield after the crash.

This is so dumb, one heavy hitter will buy out the CE, not to mention that anyone with offers to buy CE will be accepted as the price has been met so i doubt it'd go near 2k.
Everyone knows the price will go back up as the supply can't keep up with demand. So everyone will be buying it out in a frenzy to profit all the way back to about 4.5k.
I'll buy all your 114k ce at 2.5k each.
BTW we the players set the market price, SEGA just take their 2% cut. The system works very well, i hope other MMO's use something like this.

can you not read Naruchico? is it not there plain and simple?
wait until you have 100 ME, go into the clockworks, use about 70 ME (try not to die here please).
you will have enough crowns and mats to buy 100 CE on the market. leaving you with 130 energy.....ok so far, not going too fast?
now you have options you can wait till tomorrow (have a social life etc.) or you can repeat the above steps therefore self perpetuating. now each time you do this you'll make a little more energy than you spend (discounting the odd blip when you'll die etc.) so after a while you'll have energy to craft higher level items with making life fighting in the clockworks easier, and you'll never have to spend real money on CE or have to wait for ME to charge...................................................drumroll please........................................making ALL of your points in this thread redundant.

> so OOO decides to fix it one way or another

They aren't going to fix it, because NOTHING IS BROKEN.

Your plan is filled with so much failure, that I don't think the english language even contains the correct words to adequately describe it.

Even if you manage to "crash" the price -at all-, the only thing that will happen is a bunch of people will buy up the cheap CE. That will bump the price a bit, and it will swing the other way until people stop buying, and then the price will fall back down again.

OOO will make no changes, there will be no grand revolution. Nothing will happen except you'll have wasted a huge amount of time.

The market will return to normal within 1 day at most. Personally, I'd expect whatever "change" you make to ripple and be completely gone within 6 hours. A day is being generous.

Ha! Good luck with that. When the game launched on Steam and basically mutliplied the size of the playerbase by basically a factor of 10, energy still only dropped to about 3k.

Even if you somehow got energy prices to start falling by any meaningful number, just as many people will be buying up all the energy you plan to list, because they'll want to buy while prices are cheap.

Good luck on spending weeks trying to organize this only to find you only dropped energy prices by a couple hundred crowns.

Just wanted to point out that there are over 1 million knights registered for the game. There are also several thousand knights online at any given time. And crashing the market wouldn't be a very good idea. Like posted before it wouldn't last very long. Cheaper gate prices or even ce would mean a increase of knight population. Which then turns into more lag for players. This happened when gate prices were reduced for a weekend to 5 ce. Sure the prices were lower but the game almost became unplayable due to the fact of server overload.
Also I look at the market as a waste of selling cd. You can make more crowns for your ce playing than selling. I can make anywhere from 6-10K crowns on 100 CE/ME. Don't believe me, just try it. Also like stated before you can buy more ce with crowns to keep playing. I've never had a problem with not being able to play.
Also the ME makes you think about your life more. A hour or so a day isn't a bad idea. Not to mention theres the new pvp which doesn't cost any ce at all.

I think the market is fine where its at. I for one find playing more profitable than selling. So ask yourself, is it really worth it. And if you like the game you should support it. Your only doing yourself a disservice. I also heard prices went as low as 4K when the unbind patch was released. When I logged on later that day it was around 4800 crowns per 100. It was over 6K before that patch. And now where around 5300 area. Not a bad place to be. And I won't sell for under 5K. Its not worth it.

Naruchico is either an alt, or someone who's actually new to the game.

I play when I want, how long I want, whenever I want. I haven't spent a single dime to play, even though I'd sometimes want to (to cut out a wait for something like 800 energy).

When I started, I'd use mist energy to play with friends and then log off, do homework or sleep or something, then play again the next day.
When I hit tier 2, I learned from my friends not to use energy reviving all the time, and I got better at playing. I earned enough crowns to get more CE, then realized I could keep the cycle of being able to earn crowns and keep playing.

Before I had things I wanted to make, the most important thing to me was to be able to play the game at all - to go dungeon crawling and fight hordes of monsters. I was perfectly fine with using CR to keep playing, because being able to play at all was what I wanted to do.

Naruchico's concerns sort of feel like tier-1 feelings.

Reasoning: limiting game-play time with the current energy system is aggravating and game breaking for me, and if we want to make sure the system is changed we have to do something to prove to the game creators that it is a failing system and needs a brisk change.

Thoughts and suggestions on change: remove the energy cost to do cave tromping and gate opening, you can leave it for crafting, guild creation, etc. leaving OOO the ability to make money on what it should be, instead of pay to play...cause at its current it is more so set at "you can play for free for this much time" my-swell call it a "demo".

Really, if my goal is to keep playing the game whenever I want, then why does it matter if I gain a profit?

Uh... Even if you buy $100 worth of CE every month you'll never be able to crash the market for longer than a few hours/minutes at a time.

CE Prices are dictated by the amount of people paying for CE versus the highest paying stratum out there, not by one person (or two dozen people with $100 CE for that matter) conspiring to sell CE at a loss.

Out of curiosity, were you around when the 2 gremlin merchants hit town? The price of CE dropped so fast it was downright amazing, all the way down to 3k. And then promptly jumped back up to 5k, where its been hovering around since. This all happened in about a 10 minute time frame also.

Seriously, you can try to do what you're talking about, nobody will outright try to stop you. But you're going to need insane purchasing power to do it for even an hour, much less a couple days.

~Gwen

You're wrong,

don't do this because it's WAY more fun having a lot more ingame currency than another person rather than actually playing such a fun game.

Gerry, anyone whose account was created before April (I think) is a beta player. There's way more of us lurking on the forums than you obviously think.

Oh no! I have to pay energy to use gates!
I have 100 CE. I play 10 gates. I buy 100 CE back with the profit, and still have leftovers. Repeat process untill leftovers can be made into CE. You only need to play 20 gates to get 100 CE if your in T3, so you use 100 mist, 100 CE, and make 200CE. The same as converting 100 mist into 100 CE. That's 100 CE a day. Its not hard at all. Grow some man hair and play the game.

I'm quite happy the elevators cost energy.
Spares a lot of ragequitters because they lose their energy ;).

Yes, but that's assuming you don't DIE all the time. If you do, and have to pay Energy to ressurect, then you actually lose Crowns.

Which always happens. Always. :( And I have 5-star everything equipped, too.

Ahh this was a good thread to read while eating. Very entertaining.

I didn't read most of page 2.

but it seems Naruchico is pretty stubborn even when confronted with pure logic.

So I'll have a go at trying to explain this to him as fathomable as possible.

Even if you recruited 100 players, and that's very generous, I don't think there's a guild with that many members anywhere on the server, or even in other games other than WoW.

say you have these 100 players, loyal to the bone, packed with reallife cash.

let's say you accumulate 10.000.000 CE. Yes, very generous again. You and your 100 Loyal Followers somehow accomplished this AMAZING feat.

Then you actually crash the market. Everyone is dazzled, the price for energy is in the toilet. 200 Crowns. I'm being godlike generous.

What do you think will happen? the remaining 999.899 players will INSTANTLY buy a gazillion Energy.

the price will be back up faster than you crashed it.

You will go down in history, maybe get a special helmet fro three rings for this amazing feature. The whole community might actually go "wow, he actually did it."

but..well...how shall I put this... imagine you're one of your 100 followers...

"Uhm..dude...we just gave everyone virtually... free energy...uh...why did we do this again? If my mom finds out I used her credit card..."

so uh..yeah ..good luck with that.

<.<"

lol i just re-read this thread. he actually tries to equate the SK economy to the 1930s american great depression.

okay kiddo, since you didn't learn this in school me edumacate you.

first of all, you fail to understand how the market tanked. it was NOT one guy, or a few guys, it was almost (95% right?) EVERY. SINGLE. AMERICAN. PERSON. taking their money out of the banks simultaneously because they were afraid of losing it, and because they were so afraid of losing it, they actually caused the banks to go broke.

if you wanted to replicate this in SK, you'd have to convince the VAST MAJORITY of players to sell their CE ALL AT THE SAME TIME. this means only the few people who sell RIGHT AWAY will make any profit whatsoever. EVERYONE ELSE will be taking MASSIVE losses, to the tune of 80-90% loss. 100 CE for 1k means it is worthless to anyone who sold when it went under a stable price.

since there is nothing in the game that will ever require you to hoard a massive amount of crowns (eg. the depression - people wanted to hold onto their money because they were afraid the banks wouldnt have it) then there will never be anything in the game that can convince the players to "crash" the market by cashing all their CE in.

I'm starting to think this crash is going to backfire on us naruchi. I somehow have a bad feeling but still going to stock up CE!!