A slight Terms of Service reminder for the Blast Network AFK "players"-Solved since 08-11 Bugfix patch.
Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:38
#52
I'm sure they are trying to
I'm sure they are trying to figure something out about the servers and the lag issues that are happening, and about better ways to reward the good players to help discourage abusing the system. I have faith that they'll work on something that is going to help with all this.
The lag, I don't think they were prepared for the amount of players they have gotten. When you work on projects like these you can only predict so much. Many of the times it's trial and error. Just gotta be patient is all.
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 02:05
#53
Well thanks Eurydice, that's
Well thanks Eurydice, that's exactly the answer I wanted to hear. At least now we can officially say AFK-ers in Blast Network are considered as breaking rules. I hope many people will start sending complains and that in the end that stupid trend will definitely vanish!
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 03:48
#54
@Eurydice
Can we have the Puzzle Pirates style /complain chat command? With the current /complain chat command, it's a little tricky to go through the entire complain interface in the time it takes to respawn. I'd much rather be able to type "/complain Knightname AFKing in blast network" (in fact, that's something I could conceivably type while still alive on some maps).
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 07:56
#55
Honestly, like tengu said, if
Honestly, like tengu said, if the Krogmo Coin rewards were not bound, the game would have significantly less AFK farmers.
Simple fix to a simple problem.
As it stands, there is absolutely no incentive to play Blast Network due to AFKs, lag, and poor balance in the game. The Bombhead Masks might be fun, but the tedium you have to endure to even get a CHANCE of getting one outweighs that fact.
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 06:29
#56
I AFK in pvp and I don't use
I AFK in pvp and I don't use any macro software. I just click the buttons and alt tab to do something else. There is nothing against this.
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 07:53
#57
then you are GRIEFING and an
then you are GRIEFING and an AWFUL PERSON and should DIE
that's what i did to get my first mod calibrator, then i realized it was actually almost as boring to AFK as it was to play bomberlag. so i stopped!
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 07:56
#58
Laggy/janky gameplay
Rewards
- Laggy/janky gameplay
- Rewards for not playing and ways to boost those rewards (1 coin for idling, 7 coins for boosting while idling)
- Completely bound rewards (masks, coins, recipes). Everything but mod calibrators and we've seen where that's gone.
Gee, I wonder why people idle. Outside of a handful of people doing it to boost into the ranks (lol, why?) I'm assuming most afkers have issues with the laggy/janky gameplay and since everything is bound they are buying their coins by purchasing boosters and just idling out matches.
And you can report people who idle in matches but unless they're botting, I don't see what rule they're breaking.
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 08:08
#59
"And you can report people
"And you can report people who idle in matches but unless they're botting, I don't see what rule they're breaking."
Yeah I don't reckon I mentionned any else. Though my mind is clear about any player joining Colosseum to just sit down and enjoy the show without making the least effort to play along. Lag is the same for all. I lag a terrible lot, I live nearly 10k miles away from the server and I still have no problem enjoying the game even if I already have all the Krogmo coins I need.
Those who just can't bear playing Blast Network but want its reward shouldn't even step in. They can already buy their Mod calibrators at broken price in AH and if they can afford to miss trying this game alternative, they probably also can afford missing the miscellaneous rewards it brings.
And I still consider even if just idling in matches without being AFK nor using any 3rd party program is not a case of game "hack" (well you got it, I won't go explain that) that's nevertheless a serious attempt to the game's spirit, which is also part of the ToS.
And to those who're gonna say: "Ya but once those people got what they need they'll just leave" I might need to remind that SK actually counts (apparently) a few hundreds thousands active players, so there will always be lamers spoiling Blast Network, as long as nothing is done to either learn them they have to stop or stop them by force (=ban).
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 09:20
#60
while you are fortunate
while you are fortunate enough to somehow enjoy blast network, a huge number of people would rather play spiral knights while benefiting from the rewards blast network offers. it is completely dumb of you to say "people who want blast network rewards but don't want to play blast network should stay out," as if that will change anything.
of course they can "afford" not to waste hours and hours actively playing a poor bomberman clone. on the contrary, it is people like you who can "afford" to play it. OOO purposefully tied good prizes into blast network and purposefully bound them as a way to encourage crown and energy spending. as far as i can tell, OOO has no problem with people who are physically present and physically joining games but not actually participating in them. they do not abuse outside software and they pay to play--they just don't compete. it doesn't say in the ToS that you have to try hard to win at bomberlag, and don't even get me started on paper-thin arguments about "the game's spirit."
you are arguing with the symptom instead of the disease. the disease is OOO's choice of PvP gametype and structuring of PvP rewards, and the symptoms of that disease are AFKing players who want trinkets and recipes but can't be bothered to play an awful minigame. as long as it takes forever to amass enough coins to earn PvP rewards, as long as rewards can be earned simply by being present in a match, and as long as most of the rewards are completely bound (exception: mod calibrators and trinkets), there will be people slowly grinding out coins without being present to earn their bound rewards. yelling at them won't change it, and as long as they burn crowns and/or energy doing so, OOO won't do anything except in provable cases of macros/outside software.
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 09:55
#61
I won't quote nick again, but
I won't quote nick again, but just as a reminder: the disease as he seemed to be saying are AFK players and developpers are working ways against that.
The current PvP system is certainly not flawless. But that's the players who exploit the flaws while developpers work on improving things.
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 11:40
#62
@obvobvobv
you are arguing with the symptom instead of the disease.
That's not a very good metaphor, since symptoms aren't generally intelligent entities with an independent will, whom you can ask to stop being selfish jerks. But if you want to run with it anyway, there's nothing wrong with taking a medication that alleviates symptoms at the same time as one that addresses the underlying illness. Yes, hopefully Three Rings will take away the incentives for people to AFK in BN. Meanwhile, AFK players are still detrimental to the game experience for people playing it as intended, and it is not unreasonable to ask them to stop doing it.
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 14:14
#63
lulz apparently were had
it's wasted breath, Obv.
Yes, I agree with you that Bomberman OOO is laggy and has pathing problems.
Here's a little chestnut to ponder: Spirit of the game = play bomberman and get the non-interested parties banned? Or, is it to play Spiral Knights and acquire gear to make gate runs easier? There is no other functional way to get the equipment offered in Bomberman.
OOO could end all the frustration by making the krogmo coins droppable by a new boss or something, or make the recipes tradeable.
Also, it's hard to believe a sitting kill-target who doesn't move, raises the game kill-count, pays the fee to sweeten the pot, sometimes pays to the bribe with no hopes of winning, and if they're like me, tips the bribers with some cr for a nice bribe could be some sort of detriment to the gameplay. Tell me in a reply how an AFKer ruins the gameplay more than someone who actively plays, but jumps out of team play?
Also, it's kind of a shame to see a mod land in a combative thread and not issue warnings, especially when they conflict with the rules sticky. I'm not arguing that I don't deserve a warning too, but considering the personal shots at my ability to raise my children and my sex life I say something should be warranted.
I guess it was lulzy, so it doesn't count, right?
Right Eurydice?
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 15:22
#64
Oh forum people, you so
Oh forum people, you so silly.
Since when did someone have to use a macro to stay AFK? The reason why it isn't an bannable offence yet is because according to the ToS, there's nothing that can be done about it. You can't proove that someone is using a macro. Thanks to game mechanics, someone can AFK by putting a weighted object on their arrow key. Have you ever seen the idiots afk-walking forever in the AH/Haven square?
That said, there's nothing on the ToS that says afk-ing in PvP is illegal yet. Face it - they provided coin boosters that reward players even if they lose. And if they take those away, you're not just depriving the AFKers, you're depriving the lesser players who aren't as good at PvP and never win.
So, until they make it a RULE or have counter-AFK measures, there's nothing that can be done about it.
And as for the macro problem, while it's simple to 'spot' people doing certain things in certain intervals, there are more complicated macros out there. And for the weighted-object-on-keyboard thing, that's not macro software. That's HARDWARE huehuehuehUEHUEHUE
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 15:57
#65
@obvobvobv: How did you get
@obvobvobv: How did you get
as far as i can tell, OOO has no problem with people who are physically present and physically joining games but not actually participating in them.
from this?
@tengutengu: Warnings are delivered in-game when possible so that we have a record that the message was received by the offender. Thanks for alerting me that you were giving as good as you were getting, though! I'd missed that, but now I see it.
So then, a general warning to the participants in this thread: knock off the personal attacks, please.
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 16:39
#66
HUEHUE I was right.
They
HUEHUE I was right.
They didn't do anything to players until they fixed the system itself. This thread is invalaid.
Thu, 08/11/2011 - 18:43
#67
@thoran: of course nick is
@thoran: of course nick is going to say the disease is the AFK players who are merely going where incentives lead them, as opposed to his horribly designed pvp and reward system that incentivize AFKing. i wouldn't want to admit to people that i was responsible for blast network either.
@trouserman: AFKing players force you to put up with the mild inconvenience of an occasional free kill item in your bomberlag game. you, on the other hand, would insist that AFKing players take that several hours of their lives they planned on doing anything else with, and spend it clicking dully at their computer. who exactly is being selfish here?
@Eurydice: i mistakenly assumed that only people employing macros would be targeted, and that people who physically did everything short of playing the game would not be. in any case, i find it interesting that out of every criticism of blast network, the prize system, and auto-binding for prizes that has been leveled in this thread, by myself and by others, the only time you responded was to point out that OOO is being less reasonable than i initially thought.
this argument is moot, anyway. with this current "bugfix," as with virtually every other change in the history of the game, OOO has erred on the side of More Grind. auto-binding all 4* and 5* crafted items, raising the crafting fee to absurd amounts, preventing basil ports, instituting an auction house with listing fees and a massive 10% cut on sales, and now coming down hard on people who want PvP rewards but can't be bothered to play a worse version of bomberman than the worst actual bomberman game.... every "improvement" made to this game has been introduced with the single-minded goal of leeching more crowns, energy and time from players. and in the end, what does this game leave you with? a bunch of toys to use in a tiny, dirty sandbox.
Deus Ex is a masterpiece that costs half as much as a starter pack for Spiral Knights. Cave Story is free. the Orange Box costs $10 more and features five games. Knights of the Old Republic is something ridiculous like $5, and has better production values despite being 8 years old. OOO has made nothing as beautiful, and never will. they have made FFXI-lite. they have made Progress Quest: Zelda Four Swords edition. with puzzle pirates, they pioneered an interesting new style of gameplay. with spiral knights, they stitched together several old styles of gameplay into a shambling mess while focusing the brunt of their energies on pioneering innovative new ways to take from their players, after the addictive hooks are in place. Spiral Knights needs us, but it does not think very highly of us--why else would it charge so much, in time or in money, and offer so little?
Fri, 08/12/2011 - 08:50
#68
@obv: If you want a more
@obv: If you want a more transparent dev to player experience, go play Pocket Legends or Star Legends on android. This was basically my holdover until SL came out, and I got a little caught up in it :\
I disagree that OOO hasn't made a good game; it's just rife with non-fixes. Of course a profit-driven company (like all of them are) will err on the side of profits. This game isn't a democracy.
I understand that the combination of making a game that makes money and adds a lot of playtime to the system seems like a win/win for devs, who are most likely trying to create an immersive MMO world on a cottage design crew. The problem is always the players, however. Especially since adding Steam, they've gotten way more revenue, but also more problematic kid players who'll scream bloody murder until something gets "fixed" in the players perception. Being as the devs are human beings, they probably just want to shut up the loudest, and make some money doing it.
Also, I want to point out that maybe there's a tinge of a grudge in this latest update. I feel the devs understand exploits are gonna happen, and for the most part they aren't destructive to gameplay; hence the paid player system. The upheaval of grit-filled groins about Bomberman AFKers probably gave them a reason to load a draconian "careful what you wish for" patch. I would have loaded it with a smile on my face, tell you the truth.
The fact is the players will still play it. I'll probably never see the BN players in my gateruns, and if I do, i'll have to be reving them or soloing out. I guess that's a good thing, though it would be nice to have the CE-rich little kids give us more group-revs @200ce like it ain't no thang.
Fri, 08/12/2011 - 09:09
#69
You (tengu) sound like its
You (tengu) sound like its players which decide how the game is developped AND that the fact that AFK-ers.
And errr.."The fact is the players will still play it"
Wait of course they will, the latest bug fix is exactly meant to restablish the spirit of BN by putting an end to system abuses on it, so why in the world players would stop playing it once they can enjoy one real game where everyone plays its part?
The devs to player experience is most transparent moreover..I had never seen a MMORPG in which developpers themselves were talking through forums regularly to their own players and even making satisfaction polls.
So tell me, which player enjoys the game the most? The one which will always want it to be better and least glitched/abusable, or the one that likes it sooo much he'd rather not be behind his keyboard while playing it (..)?
Fri, 08/12/2011 - 09:56
#70
probably the player who can
probably the player who can always play the game he signed up for to get the gear he wants, and not have to be stuck playing a glitchy port of a game that I would assume would be hard to screw up, for hours and hours and hours on end....MUCH more time than it takes to make a T3 geared knight.
Did you create an account for a hack and slash MMO or an 8-bit NES clone server?
This game has no other forms of XP. Only gear. Gear is being held from me because I don't want to play a lame version of a lame game for..what...
7 minutes, give or takee a little, for matches and in-between times...
1 krogmo coin, considering my lag and basic apathy to the game...
700 krogmo coins to get th 3, 4, and 5* recipes for the brandish and troika sets (I don't like the autogun sets or bombs)...
Luckily I can gray-market the mods until they patch that, then it'll be another 300 coins or so to get the trinkets I want...
so, 7 minutes x 1000. That's how long I have to play Bomberman, disregarding DQs due to lag spikes or lack of trying (how do they judge that now?)
and no, I wouldn't be getting boosters, and I'm not spending bribe energy. I leave that to the people who can win.
SO, we seem to be clocking in a LOT of game time for 2 5* items and 6 trinkets.
It's punishment for wanting those items for some of us. Not an enjoyable experience, straight punishment.
Fri, 08/12/2011 - 10:06
#71
Yes. A classical MMORPG
Yes. A classical MMORPG offers a leveling system with experience points. A hardcore grinding, killing mobs over and over again to reach the top level, the endgame, rule over a majority of player. A hardcore grinding which most players aren't free from lag.
In Spiral Knights you don't have to go through this. If you wanna be consider as an endgame player, all you need is a 5* full set. And there are plenty different equipments, and each of them has its own interest, and is easily replaceable. That's how it goes in every MMORPG. To enjoy the top you need to make some time sacrifice, even if that implies repeating over some boring activities. Right now obtaining Blast Network best rewards seems to be the longest challenge. But think of it: in comparison to any other classical MMORPG, playing tons of games with other players and eventually enjoying them to in the end obtain your so lusted rewards is certainly far more interesting than a repeated grinding at mobs for some experience points. I wonder, how many matches of Blast Network did you really played, like no AFK or anything? If you gave up at 3 games, I'd say you jump really easily to conclusions. Try harder, everybody lags there, of course its annoying in the beginning. It also lags in the Clockworks but everybody plays the Clockworks too nevertheless!
Fri, 08/12/2011 - 10:18
#72
Let me save you some trouble...
The Triglav (and Sudaruska) both suck, mostly due to a terrible imbalance between their attack speed, charge time, and damage output.
I have both, and I only use them for show. If you want a heavy sword, go get a sealed sword line. [Oh no, they're forcing me to kill bosses in order to get token items ;_; bawwbaww]. Divine Avenger can glitch through walls [hey guys, fix this please - nerf the DA while balancing out the rest of the heavy swords maybe? ;>] and Gran Faust's charge attack is kind of useless since it takes so long, but its 2 swings are respectable.
Now, you talk about Krogmo gear as though they were necessities. They are just options to things like the brandish > combuster, or troika > sudaruska lines - in which case you'd have to either get lucky finding their recipes with Basil or raise money to buy them from the auction house. The krogmo coin gear are generally very much luxury items for the rich/skilled.
I have a friend who seems to like his voltedge and he actually uses it to kill things, so at least that one's likely worth trying to get.
That's 50, 100, 150... 300 total krogmo coins. Not sure where you pulled the 700 from, unless you wanted to count 2 mod calibrators.
-------
As good as I am / as much as I like the bomberman game, I'd side with you (tengu) if these were actually necessary items, but as it stands, they're not. Not at all.
Fri, 08/12/2011 - 11:41
#73
Divine Avenger, got it.
Fran
Divine Avenger, got it.
Fran Faust, got it.
I usually have both of these armed, along with a mix of my skolver and vog, and a barbarous thorn shield. I can't complain about the damage, for sure.
I'm not in NEED of the Troika swords, I just WANT them. I just don't want them anymore, I guess.
yea, it was 300 per sword line, and 2 more mod calibrators. I'm doing bomb focus, and it'd be nice to have sword trinket too.
I guess I made mountains out of molehills on needing these swords. I've heard a lot of complaints about them, so...I'll stick with more accessible recipes.
I'm not making molehills out of the issue where people seem to think that playing bomberman somehow equates to playing Spiral Knights. I don't get bored with the variety of gate monsters and designs, and if I do, I go to another gate. The amount of random possibilities in gate construction makes for a newish game experience every week or so. Chopping my way down to T3 on a new gate is fun AND profitable with the inclusion of mat sales.
frankly, I'm not a fan of PvP either. I came from a game where PvP was a accessory system that could be completely ignored, which is what I did. This time I have to make the choice to not get an item because of PvP however.
I just told an online friend that when I run out of gear to build and use, I might as well quit the game. I must be getting close. Time to start spending CE to finish what I have, cuz if this is the way of things to come, I'll have the Brandishes to build (minus volt), and I'm there.
aaah. ok. I've seen a few people.