Cardinal Rules for Arenas
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 11:39
Hello all,
This is not a Cardinal Rule for Arenas yet, but I would like to catch on quickly, because it is an amazing idea. Most of the "pros" already know how to do this, so please don't post "gtfo noob". This thread is more directed at people who sometimes have difficulty with arenas (especially the last robot stage).
And if you've been playing Spiral Knights for about an hour, you'll realize that these arenas will get you far more cash than regular dungeon runs.
I was recently in a quick scrub group, and our first level we got was an arena. Awesome! More crowns!! We had a combination of 12 deaths combined.. before the level was finished. Not awesome.
The next level, was an arena, and to my surprise, I stuck around. Except this time, before I stepped on the party button, all I said was "Kite clockwise". Everyone did, and it was a smashing success. Went through all 3 rounds of the arena, and we lost a total of 10 bars. Not 1 death!
Next level .. another arena. "Kite clockwise" (Remember, we're going to harder levels as this progresses). Everyone did, we lost 8 bars combined. I was stoked.
For everyone that doesn't know what "Kiting" is in videogames, it's pretty simple.
To kite, is to run away from monsters, behind you, so they cannot attack you. Kind of like flying a kite, as long as your running, the kite stays in the air. If you stop, it falls down.
So to kite clockwise, is to run in a clockwise circle around the arena. So that the monsters behind you can never attack you.
To attack these monsters while kiting, you can drop bombs behind you, you can shoot behind you (or at the monsters in front of you, chasing your team mate) Or you can melee the monsters that are chasing your teammate.
This creates a little organization, so that not everyone is running around randomly, generating more lag, and setting yourself up for a random attack in the middle.
So please, your next arena, try kiting clockwise, and make sure your teammates are on board. If not everyone is kiting, it doesn't work well. If you like how your arena turns out when you do finally try this, please send this link to your friends/guildies :)
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 13:42
#2
Yeah
Having a universal rule would be useful. Running the wrong was can be deadly.
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 15:02
#3
Running in the same direction
Running in the same direction is not a universal strategy. It only works if all the monster are in one big group.
More often than not, you will be chased by a group of monsters and end up running into a different group chasing another player. If you keep "following the rule", you just end up getting surrounded with no way to escape. The best option in that situation is to head towards the center and going around the group you were going to run into, merging the two groups.
There is a lot more going on in the third room of an arena than just Mecha Knights. In some themes, the last wave will be Gremlin Demos and 2 Gremlin Menders. If the last wave has Mecha Knights, there will also be a few monsters (not healers) to reflect the theme of the arena. These monsters do not follow the same attack patterns as the Mecha Knights.
In a party, knockback from weapons and shield bumping can ruin the best laid plans. Running in the same direction is a basic introduction but it is not a substitute for learning to adapt to the situation.
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 15:40
#4
Yes but..
Ah yes, true Velops. The key is to stay out of corners though. It's a bit harder (not that it's hard) than just kiting in a circle, but that's the main jist of it. The key is not to run in a group of 4 people together, but rather separately. Stay out of corners, and attack the monsters in front of you that team mate is kiting.
It's a bit hard to explain in text, but you should definitely try it, and see how well you like it :)
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 16:52
#5
More often than not, you will
More often than not, you will be chased by a group of monsters and end up running into a different group chasing another player.
This happens far more often if two players are kiting in opposite directions. And yeah, if the enemies aren't in one big blob, you probably still want to kite yours in the same direction as all the others, and running across the middle is a pretty good way to bunch them up if you're running into the back of someone else's train.
The other thing I'd suggest, as I'm a gunner:
I've had swordmen complain bitterly about me causing the Mecha Knights to shield during the final wave, causing them to take damage because their targets didn't get knocked away when they attacked. My suggestion is thus: I can thin out the pack with minimal risk to myself by staggering my shots so that some arrive after the shield has gone back down. You take a huge risk every time you move into melee. Instead of running ahead of the pack just behind me and getting mauled every time to close to melee (which, I admit, works when a bomber has aggro), go all the way around and hack at the rear of the mob while everything is chasing me. As a bonus, even if the Knight shields, you can still damage it from behind.
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 17:19
#6
Nice!
Good idea! However, depending on the enemies present, the optimal tactics will vary, especially when Tier 3 Gremlin Menders are present. That said, allow me to add some "Cardinal Rules" to this thread for everyone, explaining the ins and outs about Gremlin Menders as best as I can.
Gremlin Menders. Holy mother of God these things are annoying-- they're probably the #1 most aggravating enemy, yes, even moreso than Devilites (which might hit you with ungodly speed and power from across the screen, but at least once you kill them they STAY DEAD). In Tiers 1 and 2, when you see a Gremlin Mender, kill it immediately before you attack anything else, and if you're soloing this means slash/Bash it into a corner (seperating it from the group) and wail on it. If there are two Menders, do this to one of them and make sure it dies, then get to work on the second; even if you don't kill the first one though and you start on the second instead, at least it will be distracted trying to heal itself (you can use vials or Bombs to set enemies on fire en masse, too, and distract the Menders from dodging you). If you're with a group, three of them can Kite, the fourth can pick off the Menders, making that person's job a ton easier because the Kiters have caught the other monsters' Aggro and the assassin is free to do his job mostly unhindered.
Tier 3, on the other hand, is a WHOOOLE 'nother ballpark. The little dudes in this one come with THREE new spells: Sanctuary (which places a "safety zone" on the ground for the enemies that heals over 200 HP per second of any of them inside it), Barrier (which goes up automatically when you've wailed on it down to low health, preventing it from moving or being hurt; the Barrier heals about 20 of its HP per second, but can be shattered with enough Sword trauma, or it can vanish on its own), and Arise (which... yes, they actually RESURRECT THEIR DEAD ALLIES; anything that's of the Gremlin family will leave a corpse behind in Tier 3, and if the Mender gets to it in under 2 minutes or so, it can ressurect him back to full health on the spot, otherwise the corpse vanishes and you're safe).
With all these new spells, fighting Gremlin Menders becomes something else altogether. When there's just one, if you wail on it like before, it'll throw up a Barrier at the last moment, and even though you can keep wailing on it until it breaks to finish the guy off, that'll give all the monsters ample time to catch up to you and "smother you to death with love", as I affectionately refer to it as. What I found works for me is to make its Barrier come up, then immediately run away and lure everyone to the opposite corner of the Arena; Menders can't chase its allies to heal them while the Barrier is up and preventing it from moving! While they're lured, fight them for a while, working your way back to the Mender's corner (ala Kiting), and by that time the Barrier will be JUST about time to vanish on its own, or so weak that you can start wailing again and one slash will bust it. Even if the Barrier's healing effect brought the Mender to full health again, you should be able to kill it this time; Menders don't seem to be able to put up a second Barrier back-to-back, if at all.
If there's two Menders, you're in big trouble, because one can ressurect the other INDEFINITELY unless you either kill them both at the same time, or kill off one and prevent the other from reaching its corpse. What I found works here is to get one Mender in the corner, get it to put up its Barrier, then get the other Mender in the opposite corner (quickly with a Shield Bash followed by wailing) and get HIM to throw up its Barrier. Now that they're seperated, I run back to the first one and finish it off, and the moment that happens I run back to the other one to finish it off too. It's a lot harder in practice, though, not just because a ton of monsters are chasing you, but because those Menders love to dodge your attacks and unless you persistently dog them, you'll fail in seperating them and he'll slip past you to get in the Res. That said, setting all the monsters ON FIRE works like a charm; one or both of the Menders will slow down to try and heal their roasting cohorts, and that's what gives you time to close the book on 'em for good! And don't forget, when you're with a group, one player can target each Mender while the other two Kite and distract the monsters. I highly recommend designating anyone in the group with a Vile Striker or Deadly Venom Striker to be the official Gremlin Mender Slayer beforehand, for (hopefully) obvious reasons. :)
Hope this helps, even a little! I'm still mastering this stuff myself, to be honest, but I can assure you I HAVE been making progress instead of blindly floundering. *kisses my muscles* I f#ckin' LOVE the art and beauty of improvement.
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 18:46
#7
A related tips for Danger Rooms
Danger rooms have elemental traps at each corner. When lichens spawn in danger rooms, especially from T2 and on, you'd often get oilers for fire theme and quicksilver for lightning theme. Facing a big group of monsters you'd be tempted to kite, but running along the edges in those cases would be a fatal mistake.
When you run along the edges, the slower moving lichens will cut corners to chase you, leading them right into the elemental traps. Oilers will start burning; combined with their oil projectiles, the whole arena will turn into burning hell very quickly. Quicksilvers will be healed and get super-charged, turning into murderous pin-balls shooting around.
So with lichens in danger rooms, try to keep your time running along the edges to a minimum; instead try to move back into the center of the room, so as to not lead all the lichens into the traps. Watch out where you send them flying if you use a weapon with knockback.
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 18:50
#8
It depends on the weapons,
It depends on the weapons, but I do a lot of tier 3 arena and menders are rather easy (stil an annoyance of course), with my leviathan charge. When with two menders you can win fights of attrition by knowing how to deal more than one hit to a single enemy or one hit to several enemies. Specially useful on the last fight with a dozen mecha knights.
Versus lower numbers and against any healer just let them heal all their friends, they'll go into idle mode and eventually (or with your help) trap themselves in a corner or at least against a wall, hopefully both menders side by side. Then you hit them thrice with your levi charge and take them down in one blow. You may also bait, hit something or themselves to cut their dodging and a well timed charge will finish them off in one shot.
A more important point is to never leave the walls when the enemy number is low. If you do then next round might be gun puppies and you'll be in trouble when you wake up 8 rocket puppies at once.
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 18:53
#9
Before I forget, another
Before I forget, another extremely useful Arena tip:
Whenever possible, try to restrict your fighting to the outside borders of the room. Most arenas have 1 or more waves of Gunpuppies, and they generally spawn near the outside of the room, facing inwards. If you're near the party-button when this happens, you will wake all of them up and wind up with a room that looks like it was borrowed from a top-down shooter or something. If you're near the edge, only the ones on the far side of the room will "see" you and start shooting, and Gunpuppy bullets don't travel the entire width of the arena. In fact, if you're far enough away, even those turrets facing you will stay inactive until you cross their initial line of fire.
Also, when Turrets do spawn, try not to wake up more than one at a time when you start killing them. If at all possible, when you do hit one make sure you kill it before moving on to the next one. It might be best to find your allies first before you start punching turrets awake, and destroy them systematically, rather than just starting with whichever one is closest to you.
Mi, 08/10/2011 - 22:53
#10
Menders,
They will often
Menders,
They will often dodge backwards when shot at. This can be used to scare them out of a group and into the corner of the arena, where you can finish them off. If they are facing away from you they will actually dodge backwards into you making an easier target. This dodge can be used in T3 to keep the gremlins away as you kill them.
Gun puppies,
When attacking gun puppies it's nice to attack from the outer edge so their shots fly off into the distance instead of toward the arena and other teammates.
Do, 08/11/2011 - 00:33
#11
At considerable risk of
At considerable risk of stating the obvious: different mobs require different tactics.
Running in circles around the perimeter of the arena works great against mecha knights. It's pretty effective against retrodes. It kind of works against various slimes and darkfang thwackers. It doesn't work nearly as well against devilites and kats. It completely fails against gun puppies. It does more harm than good against zombies and lumbers. It's completely nonsensical against darkfang demos. And if you're thinking about moving rather than interrupting against greavers, then you're going to end up dead in a hurry, regardless of which way you think you ought to move.
Do, 08/11/2011 - 03:57
#12
<3 Quicksilvers
@Evilnut
I purposefully kite Quicksilvers over the traps (no need in t3 ofc, since they self electrify). If you make sure you're away or shield, the pinballing Quicksilvers kill everything else, and you end up with a greatly thinned herd at no cost to your health ;) This gives you way more space to kite away from the status traps, as well as free kills. Caveat: I am a gunslinger, so kiting is easier from a safe distance for me while still being effective.
Oilers in corner-trap danger rooms are a whole new level of horrible =/
Do, 08/11/2011 - 04:36
#13
Running in circles around the
Running in circles around the perimeter of the arena works {...} It completely fails against gun puppies.
Eh?? Running around the perimeter of an arena, whacking each gun puppy from behind is exactly what you want to do. You don't wake them up until they are dead. Depending on what other monsters there are, you may need to circle a couple of times, but leaving the perimeter is just going to wake them all up.
It does more harm than good against zombies and lumbers.
Circle strafing works fine against them, it may not be needed a lot of the time, but it doesn't do more harm than good.
It's completely nonsensical against darkfang demos.
That depends on whether you are dropping bombs against the horde or not.
Do, 08/11/2011 - 12:05
#14
I've never had an issue with
I've never had an issue with Zombies and Lumbers in arenas. But then, I'm a gunner. Running the circle against those mobs usually means they basically stay in the middle of the room, as they're too slow to reach the walls before you're already on the other side of the room. It makes them very easy to pick off at little to no risk to me. If you never carry a gun, ever, anywhere, then that's your loss, not mine.
As for Gunpuppies, wrs is quite right. Although in their case it's a preemptive measure to prevent them ever attacking in the first place, as opposed to a kiting maneuver.
Greavers only turn up in certain arenas, and those arenas only turn up in Fiend themed Strata, where I am never without my Dark Thorn Blade, so they're not generally an issue. As for the other fiend, Devilites, approaching them safely often requires a rather circuitous route anyway. I've often found it helpful to run the circle while I thin out the other mobs that might be accompanying them before closing in for the kill. It's usually pretty effective at avoiding their projectiles, in any case.
Do, 08/11/2011 - 13:42
#15
my advice: boom.
I thought about posting a wall 'o text about how to do an arena, but it comes down to this: bring the appropriate bombs, kite together in one direction, and stick to the outside. Gunners fit well into this strategy, but I am at a loss at how to advise swordies (unless they kite and lay into monsters with charge attacks or short slash-backoff combos).
As for bombs, I advise Ash of Agni, Voltaic Tempest, and Dark Briar Barrage because they inflict massive damage on the appropriate monsters, and have minimal effect on kiting. Nitronome is also acceptable if you place it strategically so as to not disrupt kiting.
Do, 08/11/2011 - 14:02
#16
"Depending on what other
"Depending on what other monsters there are, you may need to circle a couple of times, but leaving the perimeter is just going to wake them all up."
If you kill them all in one or two passes, then you're not kiting around the perimeter of the room. Indeed, you're going slow and stopping to kill them as you come to them rather than kiting--because that's what works, and kiting around the perimeter of the room doesn't.
"I've never had an issue with Zombies and Lumbers in arenas. But then, I'm a gunner."
You're trying more to stay away from them than to run in regular circles around the perimeter. That is, you're doing what works, and not the tactic described in the original post, because that one doesn't work. If there are lumbers in your path, it's usually best to break off your path rather than to charge into them and hope you can shield bump them out of the way without killing a teammate.
good strategy.
everyone going the same way also groups the mobs up, as everyone is generally in a group and thus the aggro is in one spot. Easier on bombers, gunners, and greatsword users like me to get a good lump of guys to hack into.
most of the time the PuGs don't care which way they go, and by 3rd arena it's proving to be very difficult to stay alive.