Spiral Knights - Spiral Knights so far.

Spiral Knights so far.

34 replies [Last post]

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 01:24

Fallout

well..... i really dont understand how if everything was so great before this release, why isnt it great now?
the server is bad to the point im lagging out in the arcade
the guildhalls are even more pointless now then they were (the scheme isnt nice, i liked the bright happy haven style, as well as there being no trinket guys) also the walkway to the arcade from the guildhall dosnt work.
tier 2 is pointless, as most three star stuff is in the mid vendors which are still near impossible to reach without dying. and you really need 3 star equip to do anything there. and to get decent amounts of crowns to buy the incrediexpensive recipes, you need to get past the crossroads.

and enough of the "we are beta testers, where we need to make the game better, if you dont like it you shouldnt beta test".... this is meant to be the official release? 2nd preview is proving funner at the moment.
I know i will get over the pricing, and im sure the servers will be fixed by the 4th (there goes my 48hr marathon. only made it to 11hrs D= )

Well.... i know i kinda sorted it out for myself, but i wrote to much so im posting it.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 01:37

Game0ver

Legacy Username

I agree with the Guild Hall

I agree with the Guild Hall being worse then before!!! I was pretty bummed out when i payed to create my guild, went to the guildhall looking for that trinket seller, and to my disapointment, he was not there... And yes the walkway to the arcade does not work (tried charging it at full speed even :P)

I dont really think Tier 2 is pointless tho, me and my fiance made it all the way through tier 2, and I only had 2 star equips on, and she didnt even meet the requirements to be in Tier 2. She still had the preview gift helmet and armor on. She did die 2-3 times, but I did not die a single time. (I tried to save her! I swear!) I admit, it was a little tougher then before, but I'm also used to running around in pure 5* equipment, so my judgement could be off based on that. I like the fact that you can buy Vials from venders in between the tiers, i just wish the venders at the terminals had more of a varied selection of recipies. I ran into the SAME recipie vender all day long... After 4-5 runs of seeing the same recipies, it gets kinda disapointing (specially since at that point im using CE bought with real money to pay for the runs).

The lag has been a problem as of the past few hours, I took a break from the game when it started getting bad, came back awhile later and it was just about unplayable (still made it to Tier 2 terminal somehow...). Sure that will be fixed soon tho.

One thing that is REALLY irritating tho, is that for some reason even when my party is locked, and Friends/guildmates are not allowed to join, they still join my game. I cannot stop them any way possible. Me and my fiance like doing runs alone alot of the time, since their more relaxed, were settin next to each other, and if we feel like taking a break for a few minutes for whatever reason, we dont have someone setting there urging us to "hurry up". I sure hope that gets fixed soon, cuz that is my ONLY complaint about the game so far. B)

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 01:53

Shoebox

Patience isn't just a card game.

It's not like they've stopped development on the game.
A lot of the changes seemed like quickfixes to stop people from blasting through the game and hitting T3 and the Core before full release.
Nick has already said they are planning to bring back PvP by full release, who knows what else they have planned?

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 10:28

Cien_Tao

Legacy Username

What i think:

The release was fastfowarded, so, they couldn't release all the features beforehand. I still hope to see a good direct PvP, and a good Competitive PvP against groups, and i still hope to see the guildhall back again. (actually, to see my usual guild >_<)

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 10:45

kakelgis

Legacy Username

What I have been really

What I have been really disliking about this release is the increased price on everything - 2star premade equipment on vendors is now twice as expensive, 3star is thrice as expensive, who knows for the higher star ones. Recipes are pretty much thrice as expensive too - 45000 for a five star, 15000 for a four star, 5500 for a three star. Even crafting is more expensive - What was 800c for 3star items, is now 1000. Now, this might not look like a problem since CE is cheap to buy and there's tons for sale. However devs didn't think this on the high end - After people start reaching Tier 3, crafting their stuff and all, I'm 100% sure the CE price will skyrocket, making everything even more insanely expensive. Casual players pretty much will have to play for MONTHS before they can even get close to T3, and even hardcore players won't even be able to make profit from runs, since I'm pretty sure CE price will be higher than profit made on runs.

In general, it feels like the devs did the exact opposite to what they should have done - They should have decreased cost of crafting/equipment or adventuring, yet they simply increased the price of crafting by a freaking lot.

And considering they do not post equipment information on the wiki, and we have to hunt it ourselves, it'll be a major pain in the ass, since I'm pretty sure some equipment had their stats changed, and there will likely be new equipment eventually.

Currently, this situation is fine since the CE market is cheap, since everyone is overloaded with CE, but later on we'll be feeling the effects of those massive price increases.

But yeah, it's also pretty sad to see some content disappear for no reason - Guild hall is now literally completely empty, and the design is way worse, PvP no longer exists, etc etc. I also expected to see way more content in-game, or at least a few new features, but the release feels like the same thing as the previews, but worse, because of the prices of equipment and recipes. Kinda feels like Three Rings rushed too much on this release, without doing actual testing or gathering information from players and stuff.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 10:59

Arimal

hmmmm

this forum complains a lot, how about a little patient while the devs get ready for the big day. I've only put about 10 hours in game and have been pretty successful. I'm sitting on a couple 2 star weapons, about 2k in cr, and a around 150 ce. and I haven’t spent a dime.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 12:27

Kawaii_Desu

Legacy Username

Kelgis, the thing is that PvP

Kelgis, the thing is that PvP in CB was an experiment to see how players interacted with one another.
They have to bring it back.

But yeah, I do agree with the whole pricing issue.
I do think prices should be higher than CB, but not like this.
You lowered the price of 0* items but increased the price on everything else.

Recipes too.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 12:51

Merethif

Opinions of casual gamer (explorer type)

1. I like new Guild Hall look much more better then old one - I'm not really into "bright happy over-cute haven style". Now Guild Hall seems more like place actually constructed by Spiral Knights. I've never used Guild Hall vendor so I don't miss him much (but I don't mind him to reappear). Not having Alchemy Machine might be a bit inconvenient but it's not something I would rant about. The point of Guild Hall is to allow guildmember to chat or disccuss game with fellow guildmembers without hearing all general chat or zone chat with all those WTB and WTS.

2. So far I haven't gone farther then first terminal (I have spent all ME for several First Terminal Runs) so I can't say if T2 is pointless or not or is it too difficult now then before but I think it's good you can't beat it during first day of playing. I mean a game that you can beat in one day would be not worthy playing, wouldn't it?

3. Similar case with prizes. You shouldn't be able to buy mid-game gear after a day or two of playing. We have only 6 levels of gear so I gues you should spend some time with 0 and 1 star items before you acquire 2 star item. Today I saw a guy in Ash Tail outfit! The prizes are too low I suppose ;-)

4. Hunting for information to put them on the wiki is part of the fun, not pain in the ass. Exploration and discovery is fun. Of course hardcore grinders and simple minded power mongering achievers might not share my opinion on that issue - they just want their "best" gear here and now to become PvP "legends" as soon as possible and have no more to achieve and get bored and rant about adding new content ;-D

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:44

SirNiko

Legacy Username

Finding a player in a high

Finding a player in a high level equipment set is not indicative of anything wrong with pricing.

Since energy can be generated infinitely through cash purchases and therefore your progress is only limited by how many hours per day you play, it's perfectly reasonable to expect some players to break through to high level equipment before the end of the weekend (especially since rare materials can now be purchased with easily acquired tokens).

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:14

Pauling

Things I like about the new

Things I like about the new release:

The new tokens that drop during levels: no matter how bad your luck is at getting materials, you can be sure that if you play enough, you'll still be able to get the materials you need. (In four months of play, and much dedicated hunting of ghosts, I never got a single philoso feather or everfrost) That will hopefully prevent the insane prices of rare materials we saw in the last release. I do, however, suspect that prices and drop rates will continue to be tweaked.
Shielding in a bed of spikes no longer traps you there. Now, you have a chance to escape and survive, rather than total guaranteed annihilation.
It's easier to switch between Haven instances, by clicking the name (Haven 1) above the minimap.
The new vial vendors in moorcroft are a cool idea (though I'm not sure why the vial belt is now limited to 4 types instead of 5)
Despite the new bug in the jelly king fight, the GMs have gone out of their way to keep things playable. Major kudos for good support.

Things I'm not so crazy about:

Getting a sword for tier 2 has proved surprisingly challenging; most require monster bones or swordstones, which can be unexpectedly hard to acquire. Your best bet seems to be a Shocking or Searing edge, but those swords lack upgrade potential. (That's a shame, because their stats are really interesting) That means a high chance of being forced to buy a dead-end weapon to advance.
I never had to worry about the spiral warden before. It's kind of annoying: if you go back to haven to craft, then you need to make a whole extra tier 1 run after fulfilling the requirements, just to be able to stand there and be told it's ok to skip tier 1 anytime. First act when allowed through: buy vials to throw at the warden.
No offense to the artists, but the default helms are... rather unattractive. That's mostly because the new art is so exceptional; it makes old stuff look bad by comparison.
As much as I've benefited from judicious use of zone chat as a recipe vendor, it's still really prone to spamming. It's worth keeping as a tool, but some small curbs would be nice to reduce abuse
Agreed on the new guild hall. I realize that it's a work in progress, but at very least I'd like to see an alchemy machine return. (see "I need a quiet place to craft and do things free from zone chat spam") More than that, though: trinket vendors were a visible benefit for guilds. Now, the cost you pay to found a guild is almost exclusively for an extra chat channel.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:44

#10

FluffyBunny

Legacy Username

I think it's hilarious how

I think it's great how after all the complaints about crimsonite needing to be "nerfed", the luminite crystals are now dominating instead.

Fire, fire, slime, fire, fire, fire, slime, fire, slime, fire, fire... So much variety. xD At least this makes it easier to decide on equipment.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:50

#11

Pauling

Oh, yeah- the new gates

Oh, yeah- the new gates really need to be adjusted. Otherwise, come launch in a few days, this game will have several major gates with no variety at all, and no way to showcase the cool levels and monsters of the clockworks.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:55

#12

ajericho

Legacy Username

I'd like to note that I'm

I'd like to note that I'm having problems collecting blue shards, and those have not been a problem in the past, like at all. Dark shards are dropping from wolvers like flies, and I'm sure that's not right. Did something get screwed up?

And it's not just me; I've seen people on forum threads mention it, people on the Haven channel asking for blue shards and swordstones. It's kind of weird when a blue shard is rarer than a gel core.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 02:13

#13

Merethif

Swords, default helms and irony

@Pauling
I agree with almost all things you said, but the sword issue. Actually none of the one-star swords can be upgraded, so most players are forced to use at some point such cheap, "dead-end" temporary solution in T1 until they gather enough resources to craft two-stars sword. This system is not so bad though. It allows new players to test different kinds of one-star swords at really low cost and decide what style of play they prefere (speed vs damage and such). I remember myself, as a new player, changing one-star sword often until I've decided what style suits me best and eventually go for cutter as two-star sword that I was able to upgrade later on.

And default helms aren't unattractive. You just get used to them. Beside low level items ought to look a bit cheap - all those sparkling nimbuses, fiery spikes, pompous plumes and mighty horns are good for supreme gear only.

@SirNiko
quote: "Finding a player in a high level equipment set is not indicative of anything wrong with pricing."

Of course not. The ";-)" emoticon means I wasn't entirely serious about this last statement of mine.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 03:21

#14

ajericho

Legacy Username

merethif, both Hot Edge and

merethif, both Hot Edge and (other Edge that shocks, can't recall) are 1-stars that upgrade to 2-stars (Searing Edge and Shocking Edge). Their elemental damage and ability to cause status effects in monsters work fairly well; a level 10 Searing Edge can easily deal over 30+ damage to a zombie per hit, and likely cause minor fire as well.

They have no alchemical path after that, but I don't particularly mind, having moved on easily to Troika via crafting at that point.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 05:40

#15

Bangslash

"Hunting for information to

"Hunting for information to put them on the wiki is part of the fun, not pain in the ass. Exploration and discovery is fun."

To you, hunting for information on how to build weapons is fun and exploration. However, if you're the kind of person who wants to focus on the arcade-action side, the crafting system is tedious and boring paperwork.

I've unlocked tier two. Took longer than I'd have liked, as I bought a recipe for a 2 star shield only to find out that I was one ingredient short...

There I was, solo at the checkpoint for tier two. All I needed was a shield. There's a vendor, but he was only selling recipes, and I lacked the ingredients for the very few 2+ star shields. No amount of crystal energy or crowns would change that. The only choice I had was to return to Haven, wondering what kind of idiot designed the checkpoint. This was a prime time to sell energy but the game was screaming, "Don't bother paying us, your US dollars are NO GOOD here, kiddo!"

But, yeah, I've managed to find a 2 star shield I could craft. I got into tier two dungeons--which played an awful lot like pallet swapped tier one dungeons. (Didn't get to see much--boo, server reboot.) I have seen the crafting system for trying to get four star gear, though. You're supposed to get a 3 star item, a recipe, and all the ingredients, plus pay large crystal and crown fees for shipping and handling.

Um, yeah.

You might like this system, but there's no way casual players will.

Edit: missing noun (prime->prime time)

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 06:50

#16

Timewalker

pauling: "Shielding in a bed

pauling: "Shielding in a bed of spikes no longer traps you there. Now, you have a chance to escape and survive, rather than total guaranteed annihilation."

I don't know, I think it was a bug before or I don't know. Because now it traps you again with a shield.
I also liked this that you could walk with the shield through spikes.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 08:00

#17

Merethif

Exactly

@ajericho: I meant "none of the one-star swords can be upgraded more then once" ;-D
But that was my point - it is not something really terrible that you have to use and level up sword that you probably throw away somewhere in the future. I'm using Hot Edge at the moment and if I find Searing Edge recipe earlier then Cutter recipe I'm going to upgrade it and use it on T2 (unless until I get Cutter).

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 08:27

#18

Franpa

Legacy Username

@PaulingShielding in a bed

@Pauling
Shielding in a bed of spikes no longer traps you there. Now, you have a chance to escape and survive, rather than total guaranteed annihilation.

They undid this change, you now get stuck recoiling again when shielding in vines/spikes.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 08:31

#19

ajericho

Legacy Username

Bunnyhair, I'm a casual

Bunnyhair, I'm a casual player. My friends are casual players. The whole exploration, dungeon, discovery, material collection, and crafting are what make this game unique and fun to us.

Perhaps we're merely unusual, but it seems unfair to count all casual players into the "won't like working up characters." Browser games like Echo Bazaar show that such an audience exists, enough to overwhelm EchoBazaar's creators.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 10:44

#20

Pauling

I've noticed that every time

I've noticed that every time I say I like something, the devs break it....

But seriously, I really did like the brief change to how shields behaved. You still had a chance of your shield breaking, but it allowed you at least a chance of fetching items and health that dropped in the middle of brambles. For a new player, every shard is precious, and having them drop in an unreachable location is a big disappointment.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 11:18

#21

Fidds

i like this game

i know there are alot of flaws in this game but to me that still doesnt stop it from being incredibly fun and just getting a party of four people and going on an elevatorbive been playing for 2 days and already have a angelic helm and i think most people should just enjoy the game i mean yes its frustrating at times but it still holds up on its own as a fun addictive game am i rite ? i think its just a little more challenging and thats all so far im really hoping this game will do good ^^ and i dont really understand the mechanics of the differrent elevator so i could care less its stil so fun

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 13:25

#22

SirNiko

Legacy Username

The part of Spiral Knights

The part of Spiral Knights that opposes casual play is that that players are unable to progress to advanced tiers without successfully surviving the previous, full tier in one sitting. There is no incremental progress for that. Contrast that to World of Warcraft where any quest can be accomplished by killing one enemy per sitting. And even if you can't kill that foe, you can always do a different quest. Grinding is general casual-friendly, as it defines progress by time invested and therefore narrows the gap between highly skilled players and low skilled players.

So far I'm pleased with the general lack of grind in Spiral Knights. Running instances is quick and there is a general lack of equipment elitism. The new token system (spark tokens) mean you don't have to rely on rare drops to get the gear you want. That reduction in the long-tail is a big help. Collecting boss tokens is the most tedious thing I see, given how many you need to get one reward.

Unless you're defining casual play by time invested, where there is a disconnect. The ability to buy more energy as CE does mean a player who buys CE and then plays for many hours will progress much faster than a player who only uses their daily allotment of Mist Energy (or buys CE with their crowns, retarding their rate of money accumulation). That's actually one thing about Spiral Knights that disappoints me - I had hoped it would be like Kingdom of Loathing and cap your energy per day to make efficient energy use mandatory for progressing in reasonable time.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 10:15

#23

Avlein

Legacy Username

General lack of grind~~

Tell that to Mr. Emberlight Warden.

I'd love to get my Seraphic Helm, Mr. Warden! But Basil isn't being very cooperative! We're constantly going through the CLockworks over and over again, trying to see if Basil is finally selling what we need...but nope! He's always lugging around the same 1-3* recipes that no one needs. Thanks Basil! Thanks Warden!

Come on man, we need to excavate some of the deeper Artefacts in Vanaduke's Palace! Don't obstruct the path of SCIENCE and DISCOVERY!

(There's something wrong when we're decked out in Avengers/Antigua variants, yet are still wearing wolver caps/angelic helms/jelly helms.)

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 10:30

#24

Keyblade

Legacy Username

Worth the Wait!! ^_^

It is the best MMO I have ever played. It like Zelda but I don't suck at it.
If Jazzware made some toys based of this game they would be a must buy for me.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 10:36

#25

Keyblade

Legacy Username

Doh!!

Double posted by accident again.
The game forum should have a delete post button.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 12:27

#26

Kaybol

Legacy Username

this might be off-topic, but what's the topic anyway?

SirNiko: The part of Spiral Knights that opposes casual play is that that players are unable to progress to advanced tiers without successfully surviving the previous, full tier in one sitting.

Actually only one player needs to reach the next Tier in one sitting. Any other player can then be invited to that Tier and go straight to the Spiral Warden to get clearance for the future. So it is actually possible to just play one floor per day and still get Tier clearance. :) Albeit with the help of some friend / guild mate, but that's what massively multiplayer games are about. :)

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 12:37

#27

Negimasonic

O.O Whoa I didn't know I

O.O Whoa I didn't know I could use a friend to skip to the higher tiers...still since I'd just die with 1 to 0 star equipment maybe I shouldn't try ^^;

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 12:53

#28

Bangslash

Um, what discovery?

"The whole exploration, dungeon, discovery, material collection, and crafting "

I gave it one last try. What discovery? Entered another second tier dungeon and ran into more auto-generated copypasta. Oh, it's that particular turn in the road again... How can you call it discovery when even the new stuff looks old?

And it's not the "working up characters" bit that is a problem. It's the whole fetch quest aspect cranked to 11. The new tokens-for-material helps patch that up some by letting you get around the RNG, but the whole vendor system is still awful. Vendors can refuse to sell you a recipe because, hey, the RNG hates you today. There's no quick way to check to see if you have the ingredients for a reciepe--gotta scroll through your long list of ingredients yourself.

Really, if you want to build up a character, there's games that let you do that with a lot less hassle. I've uninstalled, and goodbye. This game isn't worth it.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 13:03

#29

iandawson0

Legacy Username

bunnyhair, that's why you get

bunnyhair, that's why you get recipes that you can't find from your guildmates or stuff like that. Makes everything a lot easier, of course you're not going to do well if you ignore the social aspects of a multiplayer game.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 13:16

#30

Dorael

Grinding vs Having Fun

It appears to me that the general complaint most people have is that they can't quickly leap ahead of content for free.

Regarding the free part, CE would have to be going for around 10k Crowns for it to begin to be a limiting factor of my ability to play for free. Your mileage may vary and it seems to largely depend on how many floors you can do full clears of (entire dungeons, including danger rooms and such) with minimal deaths. At 100/10k I could see it be an annoyance while only doing T1 content but you can get around that by just using ME and going much slower (albeit still free). Once you're able to do T2 though I see 100/10k being possible.

Regarding the time component, I think a lot of people are in too much of a rush. If you can't get to T2 in three days, that is NOT a bad thing. If the typical player can finish end game content within a week or two, that IS a bad thing. Slow down, chill out, enjoy the process. The game itself is fun. Right now my friends and I are basically just grinding through T2 farming for crowns, mats, recipes (curse you Crossroads vendor!), and Jelly gems. None of us are complaining though because the process doesn't feel like a grind at all. We're having quite the blast.

As for my thoughts about the release today, I think it's too soon. More specifically, I think they should have given Preview players a full week before opening it to the public. My reasoning being that there are all sorts of bugs and technical issues that you just don't see during a Beta. A little bit more time to smoothen things out for people seeing the game for the first time would likely have been better in the long run.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:33

#31

Kaybol

Legacy Username

@bunnyhair

There's no quick way to check to see if you have the ingredients for a reciepe--gotta scroll through your long list of ingredients yourself.

Wrong, there's a filter on top of your arsenal, where you can type ingredient names, weapons, gear, you name it.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 17:25

#32

ajericho

Legacy Username

bunnyhair, I have a feeling

bunnyhair,

I have a feeling you're no longer here to read this because this game is obviously not for you, but a large part of the fun of Spiral Knights is being able to hang out with a couple friends of mine. We help each other on recipes and materials, and dungeon-delve together. I can see the game not being as fun if you treat it as a pure solo arcade game, which Spiral Knights isn't.

I guess it really is all for one, and one for all.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 01:31

#33

Cinnabar

Legacy Username

It's like...

FF: Crystal Chronicles but without the exorbitant start-up price and you don't need proximal friends!

My kinda game.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 03:09

#34

Inschato

Legacy Username

Recipe list

"There's no quick way to check to see if you have the ingredients for a recipe--gotta scroll through your long list of ingredients yourself."

You can view all your recipes and whether or not you have the materials from the menu in the top left corner.

Search

Spiral Knights so far.