nick's Secret #10: GATE CONSTRUCTION theory

32 replies [Last post]
Dukesky
Legacy Username

3. The stone puppy in the south west corner of the Haven Town Square is named 'Monomi.'
-
Monomi is italian for Monomial, which means:
An algebraic expression consisting of only one term
I don't suppose Nick is italian... is he?

8. The oldest surviving monster is the spookat. Spookats inhabited the earliest working prototype of SK we ever built. Sadly, this prototype no longer exists in a place that is easily accessible.

10. There's lots of secrets in the game, many that we will unveil as we continue to develop the world. However there is one that players see every day that so far as we've seen, no one has ever figured it out. Curious!

Example 01

Example 02

Example 03

This is something we see every day. The gates. If you talk to Wegner about advanced information, you can view the recipes.
It should seem a bit peculiar the way he arranges the recipe list, especially given that he hints there may be undiscovered recipes.
The frustrating thing is... there are no unused combinations of top-2 minerals.

There is room in his list for 4 new recipes. I'm left with trying to think of construction methods that may not have been tried yet, such as 1-mineral highest, with all others being equal. Has that ever happened? The name Monomi, or Monomial, is lending to my theory of attempting a 1-mineral recipe on a gate. I can't be sure, but this is the best theory I can come up with.

Edit: I made a glaring mistake thinking there were 4 minerals when there are 5. Not sure how I could be so dense. Hopefully my theory was still an interesting read...

Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
Basic construction revolves

Basic construction revolves around the idea of 2 top minerals and an Anti mineral if "in the 3rd top" would cause it to go random. There is also 3 unaccounted status types on the stratum theme list.

What if the anti-mineral had the lowest count? Although, this should had already occurred through chance by now... or would auto sell work to make disruption happen? hmmmm

Thirdmotion's picture
Thirdmotion
Nice theory!

Yeah it would be hard to keep two top minerals at the same count. Maybe that's why it doesn't come up by chance?
I hope this theory holds water :P Too bad I sold all my minerals. This is great to test out, to the ARCADE everyone!

[edit] Secret Cow Level!

Shrinkshootr
Occam's razor, kids. You

Occam's razor, kids.

You won't find any hidden strata. Can I be absolutely 100% sure of this? No. But I'm willing to bet every single bit of property that I own on SK that I'm right. You're looking way too deep into this. The secrets he was referring to are things small and not monumentally game-changing. That's called "content." And given the resources required to create said content and how content is needed to attract new players to the game, they would NOT just make it and then leave it "undiscovered" by the ENTIRE playerbase, unused, since the launch of the game. Think about this with some sense for just a minute. >_<

Also, the 4 "empty slots" are highly indicative of one of two things:

1) just a coincidence; that's simply how the columns line up.

2) 3R plans on incorporating more content in the future, and so left space open and available in various locations with which to do that.

Strongly believe it's number 2. You see how much unused space is in moorcroft and emberlight? those places, among others, seem to have been intentionally designed way in advance of planned content expansion in the future.

Now quit this before you try turning Spiral Knights into the "Number 23."

Thirdmotion's picture
Thirdmotion
Haha kill joy...

Hahaha don't be such a kill joy. I don't see any harm in keeping this discussion going. :P

Dukesky
Legacy Username
@shrinkshootr

Three Rings builds 3D areas with unused sections like that because it takes longer. A simple graph diagram need not be formatted in this future-minded way.

Nick says there are secrets (PLURAL, PRESENT-TENSE) in the game. Even if my theory is completely wrong, you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the thought of hidden content, that is there... RIGHT NOW. You're right that they wouldn't want content sitting around unused, which is why I think Nick made his thread in the first place. They want us to figure it out, even if I'm not on the right track I'm still convinced the 'secret' is more than some arbitrary easter egg.

Gigafreak
Legacy Username
"Monomi is italian for

"Monomi is italian for Monomial, which means:
An algebraic expression consisting of only one term
I don't suppose Nick is italian... is he?"

Well, maybe.

Repair's picture
Repair
This is a very interesting

This is a very interesting theory. :o

BiggestLoser
Legacy Username
Zelda

me no understand, but worth reading

"attempting a 1-mineral recipe on a gate"

about the mineral thingy, how do u prevent people from eventually accidently putting a mineral into a gate?
and what do u expect to find?
after all the gates appear pretty similar to me, idk if u keep track of the deposited minerals and their active gates, but i do not

Dukesky
Legacy Username
@ BiggestLoser

I'm not talking about keeping four minerals at 0, I'm talking about trying to make it so 4 of 5 minerals are equal to each other, with the 5th mineral having more. Such as:

10,000 Dark Matter
9,500 (each) everything else

That's what I'm talking about. As for whether that does anything or not, I have no idea. I'm not overly confident, but I'd still like a chance to see. It seems impossible to do on my own.

BiggestLoser
Legacy Username
Zelda

given the fact, that the initial value, that ur aiming for, can be changed by any1, the issue, i mentioned, still applies

Shrinkshootr
Dukesky

1) What? It takes longer to make unused section of a hub? Yeah, it does, but why make it if you're not going to use it, if not for future expansion? "They made something unused because it takes longer to make" is nonsensical. You're going to need to rephrase or explain because I don't know what you mean.

2) Yes, Nick says there are secrets in the game. Did I claim there weren't? No. Glad that's out of the way.

3) I will be quick to dismiss "hidden content" for the exact reasons I stated. Now, I may be wrong depending on your definition of "content," but all the information he posted along with the "secrets" were just trivia. Any hidden stuff in the game right now is, I'm willing to bet, trivial and easter-eggish.

4) You're only convinced that the hidden secret is actual content because that's what you want it to be. You have nothing to go on whatsoever but implications and your own interpretations. You're not, nor is anyone, convinced of anything, because there isn't anything convincing ENOUGH (e.g. strong enough evidence).

Listen, I'm not telling you not to have this discussion. I'm only trying to be the voice of reason here and reminding you guys not to go overboard with the speculation, and IMO this is bordering on the edge. Also, keep in mind that people can and do look through game files, and even though it's against forum policy they post information they find from there onto here occasionally (like the shroom hat). If the playerbase hasn't found anything fundamentally game-altering or game-affecting, and no one has found it in the code, it's more logical to assume it isn't there rather than "xyz might exist." Call me a killjoy if you want, but I'd rather not have rumor mills start sending everyone down the absurdity road of things like "omg did you hear, there's some secret godzilla boss monster you can only fight on the stone grove if you do X Y and Z!"

Dukesky
Legacy Username
-

I'm only talking about trying this on a single strata (each gate has 6 strata). The people who don't pay attention are usually auto-selling to the first strata of each gate. Most everyone else pays attention.

But yes, it IS difficult to even attempt, which is why it's probably never happened before.

Prizmat
Legacy Username
The most important issue in

The most important issue in doing this would not be the amount of materials, but timing. It would require 5-10 coordinated (on Vent or Skype) people who would each have a couple hundred of each material, and than, few minutes before the gate launches, choose the stratum that has most equal (lowest amplitude) amounts of materials, and than make it equal and keep it that way until the last second.

I don't know if it would be easier to do it in secret or to inform many players, because while informing them would keep some people from that, it would also bring attention to that gate, and possibly someone who'd want to interfere.

It wouldn't be hard to pull off with a good guild (or a couple of friends), I really hope it works to reveal a secret stratum (like the Sleep themed Starlight Cradle, that already is in the game files) but I doubt it's the secret Nick means.

EDIT: I tried experimenting with recipes on the 5 stratum of Silver Falcon gate, and it seems that none of those combinations created new stratums. I may be wrong, and the sleep stratum could be some kind of secret, that only appears when the gate is finished, but that's not very likely.

All equal - random
4 equal 1 higher - normal stratums
4 equal 1 lower - normal stratums
4 equal Dark matter higher - random

Twiddle's picture
Twiddle
Unfortunately, no. I was

Unfortunately, no.

I was intrigued by this idea so I went to the newest gate under construction and altered it's fifth strata. It didn't pan out. Turns out it defaults to fire.

I also tried to experiment with the mineral levels by adding one at a time. I didn't get any new strata to appear.

I also tried the 1-mineral gate idea. Here are my results:

Moonstone Gate
Dark Matter Gate
Valestone Gate
Crimsonite Gate
Luminite Gate

It could be that a floor has to become active to see the hidden strata, but preliminary findings do not look good...

Prizmat
Legacy Username
@ Zanoni Looks like we got

@ Zanoni
Looks like we got the same idea, we even tried the same gate xD

I was there after you, and balanced it again, but I was too lazy to take screenshots (unless something happened).

Negimasonic's picture
Negimasonic
sorta skimming but if you

sorta skimming but if you wanted to test the one mineral theory then couldn't you just wait until the next gate switches out then start depositing into the newly rotated in one? If you want to discover a new one, then the values should immediately be reflected in whatever you start dumping. Gate themes are only locked in at the end, but they can start being decided as soon as they appear I believe. (of course you'd have to be fast but like within two minutes it shouldn't be so bad, you know exactly when gates switch out by the timing).

Dukesky
Legacy Username
@ NegimaSonic

From the wiki, if it is to be trusted:

Once there are enough minerals deposited to a stratum (about 10% of what is needed), that stratum will begin to display its current theme that results from the current mineral ratios deposited in the stratum. This theme will affect all the levels that will be created for that part of the tier once the gate launches.

Once the stratum has reached its maximum number of minerals, it will lock, no longer allowing mineral deposits and the theme cannot change except through a game master's intervention.

That means when a gate is fresh, and everything is zero, the gate is not actually displaying its correct theme.
Now whether the wiki's info was ever accurate or once was accurate but is now outdated, I don't know.

I suppose there's still a long-shot that my theory holds water because the strata we've tried didn't have enough minerals deposited, but I seriously doubt it. Please keep thinking outside the box, though. It may come in handy later, if not now.

Twiddle's picture
Twiddle
@Prizmat

I read your post and realized what happened. Nice. =D

Well, it's been verified by at least two sources now. Again, it could be that the gate has to be active to see the new strata. I want to believe. But early signs point to no.

Dukesky
Legacy Username
Can't hurt to try other combinations, right?

Even if the 1-mineral thing is a dead-end, I figure it won't hurt to keep trying other combinations, such as:

Edit: Nevermind

I figure it can't hurt to try some different things, right? I mean the cost of trying is pretty miniscule given how little minerals are worth.
Plus keeping the counts close to each other allows for easy manipulation later if nothing happens.

Prizmat
Legacy Username
We already tried those, no

We already tried those, no results. But they were very close to each other - 1 or 2 lower.

Splinter's picture
Splinter
I dunno if this is what nick

I dunno if this is what nick was getting at. But this is pretty smart, and I think people have overlooked this, probably due to having to talk to this guy and read :O

With the lack of sleep monsters, I'm not sure if these alternate zones are intended as of now or will be implemented in the future...thoughts?

Dukesky
Legacy Username
-

Yeah, my idea seems busted. The only last shred of chance is if 2250 is too low like the wiki was talking about, but I don't think so.

Edit: That entire wiki page seems horribly outdated, so nevermind.
Thank you guys for trying. I'm still scratching my head about Wegner, though.

Negimasonic's picture
Negimasonic
yeah, I was ignored the

yeah, I was ignored the mineral capacity thing because I thought they changed that awhile back (was it 6-9-2011 update?). So if there's no mineral capacity, there should be no such thing as a 10% to worry about.

Also I /derp with my initial post. Zanoni and Prizmat were testing that while I was typing (I left to browse my schedule). So my post was unnecessary :D

Fly18
Legacy Username
Has anyone ever considered

Has anyone ever considered the possibility of a new mineral being released to add to the current recipe scheme? Has anyone noticed that the mineral colors consist of 3 primary and 2 secondary. They are missing an orange mineral which, if added to all the other minerals, will mad a lot more recipes.

Dukesky
Legacy Username
@ Fly18

Yes, I have considered what would happen if they added a 6th mineral, but it would create 5 new recipes when the graph only has room for 4.

Sure, OOO could change the graph but my entire premise was based on there being recipes existing RIGHT NOW that we hadn't discovered. I'm sad to say that my theory went nowhere.

Twiddle's picture
Twiddle
Perhaps the most interesting

Perhaps the most interesting thing is how dark matter affects the gates. When you have a dark matter gate, it says "anti-mineral disruption! Theme chosen randomly." When you have any other type of 1-mineral gate, it says "theme determined by the highest mineral levels." I wonder, with a dark mater gate, what mineral(s) are being disrupted, and what is the theme if it weren't being disrupted?

Duke_Nukem
Legacy Username
@Everyone

Look in the icons folder of the rsrc folder in the spiral knights folder of your computer, for a Doom status symbol and a Muddle status symbol.

Just adding more to the theories.

Character-Name's picture
Character-Name
Tl;DR: Wishful thinking here.

The 7th type of stratum marked with a ? here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/_Duke_/Example03.jpg is the Skylark itself.

One thing the Spiral Order ain't telling us to not panic everyone is that there's no Skylark anymore. The ship actually landed or crashed at the Cradle, and got swallowed up -- now there are bits and slices of the Skylark lost somewhere in the myriad of levels same way the Cradle seems to have other worlds inside itself.

Its enemies would be the Knights that didn't manage to escape the Skylark before its destruction, and its so far unavaliable because Three Rings didn't think it would be that hard to implement the deal.

Bluescreenofdeath's picture
Bluescreenofdeath
There has been

There has been experimentation of recipes for each individual strata, but could it be possible that there is a recipe that involves specific strata in order in a tier (or all the tiers) to say open up the core? I guess this could not be Nick#10, b/c that would be obvious to the devs if we figured out how to get the core open though...

Skylark is a cool idea too.

Mohandar's picture
Mohandar
If you label a regular

If you label a regular pentagram with RGBYP (mineral colors) clockwise, and draw out all the current recipes as arrows, you get 4 pointing out from R, 3 pointing out from G, 2 from B, and 1 from Y, which fills out the pentagram and internal 5 pointed star. So the recipes might just be a byproduct of the design... there are no recipes where the arrow points back the other direction where a recipe already exists. I don't immediately see a patter with the anti minerals though.

Gigafreak
Legacy Username
"Has anyone noticed that the

"Has anyone noticed that the mineral colors consist of 3 primary and 2 secondary."

The minerals are Crimsonite, Valestone, and Moonstone representing Red, Green, and Blue (the three primary colors of light as perceived by the human eye), plus Luminite and Dark Matter representing light and darkness (all colors and no colors). They are even ordered this way in your inventory.

They're probably just yellow and purple because those colors are more readable and/or on "more equal footing" to the others than white and black.

And why on earth is everyone taking Shoebox at his word that 3 and 8 are related to 10? He doesn't work for Three Rings.

Fel
Legacy Username
4 missing recipes

Well, I was just looking into the folders mentioned before. And yes, there is at least 4 recipes missing for stun, sleep, curse and the core.