Spiral Knights - Argent Peacemaker vs. Any other FSC gun

Argent Peacemaker vs. Any other FSC gun

34 replies [Last post]

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 13:32

Xylka-Mkii

YEAH YEAH YEAH
Its been posted over 9000 times but i really have a question.

O before the threads starts heres my gear
Skolver set
Dark thorn shield
Leviathan
Barbarous thorn blade
Wild Hunting Blade (haters gotta hate)

Gigawatt Pulsar
Silversix

And some UVs but thats not the point, since my guns dont have any.
SO heres the question:
I've been saving up for my Polaris and to finally upgrade my Ash tail helm but after playing with both the Silversix and Gigawatt each a lot in FSC, Im wondering which is better.
Does AP do more DPS than Polaris in FSC? If so, Would the Polaris be better overall though because im mainly a swordmaster? Should i ditch both for FSC and instead grab a Blitz needle for my Vanaduke runs?

PLEAAAAASE Some one who has these guns and is a true expert on them help me out. Eventually ill get them all but atm this is all I got.

ALSO
I WANNA TRY TO MAKE THIS THE FINAL THREAD ABOUT ARGENT PEACEMAKER VS OTHER STUFF. I WILL BUMP THIS WHEN NEEDED!!!!!!! RAWR!!!!!!!!

Also ANY info that will help others decide over AP and stuff post in here. FINAL THREAD!!! LETS GO FOR IT!!!

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 14:17

Novium

I say go Polaris

I personally think that polaris is a better option because of the knockback, shock status and the aoe exploding bullets. If i'm not mistaken you want the slags as far away as possible. Also the polaris will be better for gunpuppies.

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 14:37

Bluescreenofdeath

*disclaimer* I'm no expert,

*disclaimer* I'm no expert, just a gear dork.

How do you play? Solo vs Grp
How many weapon slots are you using?

If you are a solo player the knockback & raw power of the polaris could make it the way to go (unless u r sloppy & knock them into yourself). That same knockback could be a real pain in the arse however, for teammates though. The polaris is a pure elemental while the AP is split. Split is always going to be a compromise when it comes to damage while pure is more all or nothing & works best in a 3-4 weapon setup to allow you to cover all your bases.

You already have both 4*s which should be a great way to compare. So which one do you favor? Do a run with both equiped (I'd take a long your trusty Levi as well). Its not like either of those guns is going to take some huge right turn when you level them to *5.

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 17:25

Aedium

I've been doing a lot of Vana

I've been doing a lot of Vana runs lately and I've typically been a swordsman since I've started playing. I love the polaris because it's useful for constructs, which I just don't like going close up to so it's perfect for picking them off. The polaris is flat out awesome in the levels leading up to Vana, as long as you know how to control your knockback so you're not pissing off your party members. It does 190 dmg to zombies 9weak to elemental) and 89 dmg per shot (fully leveled), to Vana, if I remember correctly, though I'm not sure what the AP does because I'm not making a piece of gear for one level of the game. Yo

-Polaris is useful on all levels, AP only for Vana. Easy choice for me.

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 18:12

Thegamerguy

Honestly I have both Polaris

Honestly I have both Polaris and Argent peacemaker, and there are a few differences in the two for FSC runs.

Polaris:
-Knockback
-Explodes

Argent Peacemaker:
-Shoots through gates
-More exact
-6 shot reload (compared to 3 for Polaris) and each shot does more than one Polaris shot
-Owns vanaduke

Honestly a while back I had to choose between the two, and I chose AP and sold my Polaris since in my eyes is was better. Enemies can be knocked back by swords such as Divine Avenger, or you could push slags with your shield which isn't too hard.

Try going into a party of 4 with all APs. You'll dominate every floor easily.

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 18:37

timanth

Legacy Username

@GamerGuy219Each AP shot

@GamerGuy219

Each AP shot does not do more than one Polaris shot. AP lvl 10 does 74 damage to Vanaduke's Body Form, Polaris does 92 (exploded).

The AP is also not more exact, both guns have the same accuracy as far as I know; the bullets will go where you point your cursor.

The AP does not own Vanaduke. You know what owns Vanaduke? Blitz Needle or Radiant Sun Shards. Do your research.

And have you seen a party of 4 Polaris users in FSC? It makes a party of 4 AP users look like a joke.

@Xylka

If you want some real advice, I have some to offer here:
You said you are a swordsmaster. This means you have a DA/other elemental sword that you use for FSC. Especially on the DA, the charged attack acts abit like a polaris bullet in terms of the knockback, and if you find yourself swording a lot in FSC you should take a gun whose purpose is to deal with Vanaduke, who cannot be easily sworded unless you sacrifice one person's utility just for throwing water at his fireballs. This means you should take a Blitz Needle, which has been proven to be the highest DPS against Vanaduke by FAR. (Each charge shot is 15 quick shots of 143 damage without any mods).

If you do not mind bringing two guns to FSC, then you can bring along a Polaris. The only reason people like the AP is because it allows them to cheat and shoot through mist screens, and allows them to spam bullets while moving when they fight Vanaduke. Otherwise the damage is really crappy. If you are a skilled gunslinger I suggest you bring along a Blitz Needle for V'duke, coupled with a DA (if you want a sword) or a Polaris (if you want a gun).

My personal 3-slot setup for a complete run of Firestorm Citadel is: Shivermist Buster, Blitz Needle, Polaris.

I've done Vanaduke without anyone in the party dying, so I think my advice is pretty sound.

Hope this advice was helpful, I'm Tyrelius ingame if you still need help!

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 20:39

Xylka-Mkii

Thanks guys. Also a few

Thanks guys. Also a few things.
I has no DA. deal with it.
HELLO BARBAROUS THORN BLADE FULL CHARGE GOES THROUGH THE MIST SCREENS TOO!!!!! (for a max of 1000ish dmg with my gear) Srry its just ive posted this like 40 times in other threads.
I kno blitz is the best but i dont even have a strike needle yet. Ill work on it and see what i think...

Guess atm I need more data. AP has great DPS compared to polaris but sux anywhere other than FSC. Polaris is opposite.
Also
1) the equips i listed is the only equips i use. all other is 3* and below.
2) Working on a Voltedge atm. need more ce for boltbrand.
3)Time for Blitz Needle.

Ok still need more suggestions cus atm all i see is....
3 say AP
1 says Polaris
Timanth gets a mini cookie for finally mentioning the Blitz and giving stats.
and Hellrazer333 aparently didnt read my OP. so no conclusion. I cant solo vana with my gear. all i use usually is Barbarous, Levi and Gigawatt. If im in a group youd best think its a good one. Also not to flame but no one ive met has complained about knockback with Gigawatt or Levi. I need expert help but its cool to see another person who loves gear. equips ftw. :D

I really wanna get a solid answer 6 posts with mixed answers really doesnt help, even if 4 do say AP. Im looking to get about a total of say...20 votes? that should be good.

Anyway thanks for sharing your ideas again. cya round!

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 21:46

Thirdmotion

You might want to consider...

Choosing argent peachmaker. Although blitz needle has a higher dps, not everyone is able to handle the gun. You are immoblized when firing the gun and it makes it difficult to dodge Vanaduke. On top of that, you may also have to dodge two slag guards depending on your teammates strategy. I own several guns and I actually prefer Argent peachmaker over blitz. This is because Vanaduke tends to be aggro towards me, and using argent allows me to dodge and shoot at the same time. Looking at your gears, I suggest you get Polaris first.

Another gun you can look into is Callahan (Magnus > Mega > Callahan). The gun does ~260 dmg per shot (vs Vanaduke) and it is a pure piercing gun like blitz needle. The duration of being immobile as you fire the weapon is a lot shorter than the blitz. Similar to polaris and blitz, Callahan is useful outside of Firestorm citadel (FSC) and it also causes moderate stun.

My weapon loadout for FSC is Leviathan, Shivermist Buster, Callahan, and Polaris

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 01:47

Abathur

Wtf sure does the peacemaker

Wtf sure does the peacemaker 79 to vanaduke, cause it's 50% pierced! The Polaris does just 100 at him? However, against the normal zombies in FSC the Pissmaker just does 79 too, but the Polaris (mine is lv10, no UV +Med DMG) does 220 expanded Bullets and 160 the normal ones. Also you never will reload with 2 shot technique, wich you must use or be a noob T_T'' How ever, The Peacemaker will NEVER deal as much DPS as the Polaris agains Zombies. A full 6 clip deals 480~ while already 1 Bullet of the Polaris, hitting 2 or 3 mobs, deals 440-660 ... Peacemaker is ONLY good for Vanaduke. But even there -> Blitz Needles charge deals 2200 in the same time. Just more risky if you can't really handle him.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 03:04

timanth

Legacy Username

Read what Xyonon said. The

Read what Xyonon said.

The Peacemaker is pretty much only for Duke when people don't know how to handle a Blitz Needle correctly, since the Polaris will outdamage it in ANY OTHER SITUATION INSIDE OR OUTSIDE OF FSC.

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THE ARGENT PEACEMAKER IS THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD. IT IS NOT. IT HAS TERRIBLE DPS COMPARED TO PURE TYPED DAMAGE GUNS. /rant

More civilized-like, a good strategy for using the blitz needle to kill duke is to have a partner with a Shivermist Buster (or another freeze bomb but of course the more stars the better) Constantly freeze Vanaduke. Then run behind him and unload a blitz charge, get behind him, unload, rinse, lather, repeat. He'll be dead in no time, but it does require some skill.

However, I will contradict you on one point Xyonon. You actually get more DPS by 3-shot reload with a Polaris provided you're wearing ASI gear.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 03:24

#10

Abathur

ASI decreases not only the

ASI decreases not only the time between bullets, it also decreases the time the knight grab his weapon and bring it back into normal position. So with ASI you can do the 2 shot combi faster, wich means you could permamently shot while you miss after 2 shots about 1.5 shot. But the most imporant is: While you are reloading, you are slowed and unable to block. With the 2 shot you allways can speed up or block. The dps is about the same, with ASI higher with 2 shots. Same for Biohazard.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 05:48

#11

Thegamerguy

You guys serious about the

You guys serious about the Blitz needle? Would be great to have if every charge did 2000+ damage. I currently have:

Divine Veil- Medium Fire resistance
Divine Mantle- Medium Fire resistance
Crest of almire- Max Shadow defense
Divine Avenger- Damage bonus vs undead High
Argent Peacemaker- Damage bonus vs undead High
Leviathan Blade- Damage bonus vs undead High

My set is literally set up to own through FSC, and if Blitz needle does as much as you say then I've got to get it.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 06:39

#12

Abathur

I just can say my lv10 Blitz

I just can say my lv10 Blitz Needle deals to Vana 144 x 15 charged. Uncharged 88 (~?) x 6. You can also oneshot Trojans in FSC with that sweet baby ;)

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 07:31

#13

Thirdmotion

Its true about the blitz

I'm guessing English isn't his first language, but he's right about the blitz damage. I currently own one and it's definitely a gun worth making as you can easily take down trojans. When fighting vanaduke, it helps if another teammate aggros him then you can use blitz needle on vanaduke to do some heavy damage. Like I said before, not everyone can handle the blitz gun as it takes practice.

You can solo FSC and mow down zombies with Polaris, so I don't think much has to be said about it :P

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 07:54

#14

ummeiko

Legacy Username

I like my silversix because

I like my silversix because it's fast and spammy, which is more my playstyle (kite an whittle away). However, from what guildies and other knights have been saying, the peacemaker doesn't seem like much of a damage boost compared to silversix. A few people said they regretted spending the 800 energy . I don't know how polaris compares to gigawatt, but it might be a better energy investment. As to which to use, it's probably a playstyle preference. Do you like fast, but low damage, or much slower, but higher damage? And there's always the option of taking both.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 09:07

#15

Abathur

Kilowatt -> Polaris +10%~DMG

Kilowatt -> Polaris +10%~DMG but higher splash and knock back. It's not a bad choice to stay on 4*. Also Peacemaker hast a better charge than Silversix. But the charge is most useless so ... 4* quite ok

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 11:35

#16

Random-Thing

Polaris

I have both, used to take them both in, now I only take in Polaris :P

It does more damage to everything in there, and this is possibly the only place whaere the knockback is useful even in a team, if used right those zombies will never reach your health pads :D

*EDIT* Just looked at your armour.... its kind of, well, bad for FSC :( that shield gonna break in one hit and the armour wont protect you from anything in there...

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 12:19

#17

john1111

Legacy Username

is blitz viable against

is blitz viable against vanaduke solo? i don't actually need anything else for those fsc levels since i got a max asi/vh damage avenger, and it does the job quite nicely.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 12:34

#18

Random-Thing

lol

If you can solo FSC and vanduke then we should be asking you the questions :P

For starters, how does soloing compare to being in a group? I know I find roarmulus easier solo (not that its hard to start with) but dukey is a bit..... harder :P

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 13:10

#19

john1111

Legacy Username

it's easier if only because

it's easier if only because there are less zombies getting pushed around, not to mention less health.

the first 2 vana phases is pretty simple if you're packing a levi. with 2 elite slash mod, you can get through them pretty quick. the gun phases is a different story, which is why i'm asking.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 15:09

#20

Abathur

I'm a full gunslinger, never

I'm a full gunslinger, never tried solo Vana. I guess every level b4 should be ok. The last room would be hard and Vana ... hmmm ... i guess Blitz would be subobtimal in solo.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 16:03

#21

Thegamerguy

Also when soloing vana on his

Also when soloing vana on his 3rd phase, the slags literally make him stay in the same place. Me and a few groupies that always do vana runs push the zombies into vana while he's in a corner then back up and shoot. I works good until an idiot kills a slag or vana makes new ones~ Trapping without "trapping" him like a bawss.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 16:29

#22

john1111

Legacy Username

hmm just saw someone on

hmm just saw someone on youtube soloing it with a blitz and it only showed orange numbers with charged shots. is that normal?

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 16:50

#23

timanth

Legacy Username

Orange numbers are Criticals,

Orange numbers are Criticals, John. Blue numbers are normal, and gray numbers of resisted damage.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 17:02

#24

john1111

Legacy Username

ok let me phrase this

ok let me phrase this differently. why isn't the normal needle shots showing up as critical, but the charge shots are? they deal the same type of damage(pierce) right?

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 18:36

#25

Michaelb

@john1111

Well, maybe since Vanaduke is only slightly weak to pierce, only the charge shots will do critical damage.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 21:37

#26

Xylka-Mkii

Vote results and selected replies. Read fully. TL:DR is a nono.

Vote count:
4 total Polaris (?)
6 for AP
About 7 Blitz Needle "if i can handle it"
then discussion that would better be placed in a different thread but meh.

STILL NO WINNER.

now for answers to YOUR questions. All typed from a 3DS:
@randomthing post#16
I know my gear isnt made for FSC but...
1. Maximum i die in FSC and not Vana...4.
2. sheild takes 2-3 hit from Skellys and 1 hit from trojans. Not horrible anymore. also I have survived Vana's hammer with it too.

@timanth
Dude calm down i know AP sucks other than for Vana. hek im not upgrading it. now i learned this fact:

AP without bonuses or UVs does 78-89 max dmg to Skellys and Vana(?)
For 10 more dmg id rather get my Skolver cap instead

@ummeiko
Read OP
I want pro opinions with discussion. in the end EVERYTHING becomes a preference. Listen. I want a good-best dps gun that can also have uses outside FSC.

Silversix dmg against Skellys----72-78
AP dmg----lol 10 more dmg than 4*
HMM...REALLY?!?!

Ok then imma say this after a reread of posts.
Im not getting AP anymore unless someone posts perfect data of lvl10 dmg on a skelly and shows the same with a Polaris dmg. NO UV/BONUSES.
Consider the gear I use. Neither are getting a boost anyway.
So it seems like AP is for looks only and quik shots, not strong.

BTW Wild hunting blade hits with wolver bite are the same as Leviathan dmg give or take 20 dmg. I can fully combo Skellys with it. Epic dps, but lesser (not horrible) charge imo. <<< off topic

Now i see the votes as:
50% Polaris
50% Blitz Needle over 9000 dmg zomg!!

I truly am sorry if i offended someone in this. Really i am, its just I've seen so many people shun half my gear that i just...well Timanth said it best
" /RANT"
ok well more posts always appreciated. So is ACTUALLY READING THE OP /rantagain

also remember i need the recipes for all of them still and do not have a Strike needle so if Blitz does win, then imma haf to grind a bit.
again...
Vote count:
50% Polaris
50% Blitz Needle
AP n/a unless proven its worth via dmg chart and more votes.
The gun also must have moderate purposes outside FSC. also it will become my main gun in a 2 sword, 1 gun loadout. itll be like this:
FSC: Leviathan, Barbarous Thorn Blade, Gigawatt Pulsar
non FSC: Leviathan, Wild Hunting Blade, Gigawatt Pulsar
Ill repost my gear again but I cant atm so refer to OP. BTW a Dmg comparison chart fpr all 3 is VERY APPRECIATED.

whew...lots to type on 3DS screen. Thanks again and ill see you all back here in the morning.

PS. I deserves mini cookie for doing this post via 3DS. ;)
rawr

Also this is the record for longest post in forums and longest from a 3DS. my hand hurts.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 22:51

#27

OverDingle

Legacy Username

Going by the wiki numbers for

Going by the wiki numbers for the 4* versions,

Silversix: 78 max in last strata; 6 shot clip = 472 damage per clip
Gigawatt Pulsar: 177 max in last strata; 3 shot clip = 531 damage per clip, plus shock. Damage at Vanaduke (before his global defense is applied) is 144 * 3 = 432 plus shock. From memory, shock on vanaduke is 3 hits for 18 damage, which might push the damage over silversix, but I think Vanaduke's damage reduction is something like 50% for elemental and 25% for piercing (or rather, Vanaduke's piercing weakness is technically larger than any beast or fiend)

AP and Polaris should have a similar damage ratio, so Polaris comes out on top for damage. I also believe, though I'm not certain, that pulsars finish their clips faster than antiguas - which would further push the Polaris ahead in raw damage output.

So to answer your question on which of Polaris and AP does more damage in FSC - Polaris. Possibly even at Vanaduke. It certainly doesn't need as much attention to aim during that fight.

On Blitz - if you can learn to use it, it's definitely better for Vanaduke and Trojans. The Polaris is still going to work better on all the undead and constructs in the citadel. Oh, but the oilers get a resistance to elemental when they're on fire... they're already strong against piercing though, so I guess that's a moot point.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 00:48

#28

Abathur

Lawl you guys are pretty

Lawl you guys are pretty awesome in pseudo math xD

Do you really think the Argent Peacemaker can do 6 shots in that time a Polaris does 3? Rofl... The Polaris has nearly the same attack speed as the AP and with the 2 shot technique you do ~5 shot in time an AP does 6 with reload.
AP: 78 x 6 = 468 -> if you aim perfectly you allways can hit 2 mobs -> 936
Polaris: 177 (so my bonus medium does more than 30 dmg bonus? NICEEE :D) x 5 = 885. Its pretty rare that you just hit one. You can hit up to 5 mobs per shot, but with that splash the next bullet misses often, so ø 3. If you use 2 shot, you don't lose the time of reload, however the 3rd bullet misses anyway cause of knock back. You also get mobility bonus. So if we say you hit ø 3 mobs ... -> 2655

What now AP? Yea, stark crying, blz, do it...

Tue, 09/13/2011 - 05:17

#29

FairfaxPunkz

Legacy Username

take polaris

polaris demolishes zombies and everything that has elemental weakness. argent peacemaker has elemental and piercing (not a good combination) and it does critical hits only on undead. blitz needle is great for vanaduke but you cant fire and run at the same time so you may find yourself trapped !!

Tue, 09/13/2011 - 23:36

#30

Abathur

Well I'm back again - much

Well I'm back again - much more expirienced now.
I got all 5* now and have dmg bonus and asi for guns on very high.

To finally answer the glory question:

3. Argent Piecemaker
fast attack speed, but srsly deals crappy damage. Even if its effective, it does not good damage. Its pretty mobile so you can use it at least for Vana if you don't have space or time to charge or use a better immobil weapon for dealing minor dmg. I do not recommend to craft one. But I do recommend it if you just have 1 gunslot left.

2. Polaris
fast attack speed, 2-shot-combo = win :D a totally great weapon in fsc. It owns all the zombie masses easly, for me dealing 250 (!) damage PER bulllet for EACH mob. One single bullet floating through the room, hitting 3 (ø) zombies, deals 750 damage and additional high rate for shock wich deals again 30 x 4 x 3 = 360 dmg. One single good set lucky shot deals 1000 damage. Also the shock goes further and will shock other zombies too, canceling their attacks and jumps too. Great weapon even outside of FSC. Also very important -> expanded bullets do cancel the attacks of every towers! easy going for the rocket tower room ;)

1. Blitz Needle
god tier weapon. Against Vanaduke I deal with a charge 194 x 15 damage! Thats near 3'000 damage with one charge!! Against Trojans I reach the 4'000 limit. Even against normal zombies there you deal 1'500 - 2'000 damage with a charge. Also there is more damage because every bullet has a little splash damage, so i guess 5-10 of the 15 shot will deal 2 times damage. Its a great but dangerious weapon. I recommend to use it against everything but against Vana or Trojans just with the Shivermist or if someone else got aggro. Its a great weapon even outside of FSC. Dealing very well against near everything, especially Trojans, Devilites, Gremlins and even can one shot therse damn Menders (immediately destroyes the appearing bubble :D).

greez Abathur - ingame

Wed, 09/14/2011 - 00:23

#31

Poopsie

ehmm...

For anyone saying about cheating mist screen... all handguns could do the job.
I can land all bullets from blitz needle charge on 2 - 3 zombies on the other side of mist screen.
You just need to find the right angle to shoot.

You could also finish the rocket tower room without waking him up.

Wed, 09/14/2011 - 00:28

#32

Abathur

@ kolela Nope - it just works

@ kolela

Nope - it just works with bulltes that have an explosion that is behind the point the bullet explodes hitting a wall. This means for if you shot with an Argent Peacemaker into a mist screen (or however they're called), it explodes because it's hitting a "wall", but the explosion of the bullet is a little bit behind it.

Every gun has an explosion (can hit multiple targets), but it wont go through the wall. It must appear behind it. Only weapons with the same bullet type as the Antigua are able to do this.
These weapons are:

- Antigua
- Silversix
- Argent Peacemaker
- Blackhawk
- Sentenzia
- Needle Shot
- Strike Needle
- Blitz Needle
- the other new Plague Needle thing :O

Wed, 09/14/2011 - 15:22

#33

Poopsie

hmm...

Well I only try pulsar, autogun and antigua series because that's all I have. They are just working fine damaging through screens.

Wed, 09/14/2011 - 17:22

#34

Goldmaker

Blitz needle > polaris or

Blitz needle > polaris or prisma > AP

Dealt with it.

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Argent Peacemaker vs. Any other FSC gun