Spiral Knights - Question to developpers, Poll to players: Vanaduke, without using ranged weapons?

Question to developpers, Poll to players: Vanaduke, without using ranged weapons?

22 replies [Last post]

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 02:59

Thoranhippo

Every level in the Clockworks offer some fine alternative to players who don't use ranged weapons (throwing jars mostly) so that we can go through the level without having to use a specific equipment. But how about dealing with Vanaduke without any guns? I know myself its easy to beat at least the four first parts using swords or bombs only but it seems, to me, that the last part can hardly be done without using for example an Argent Peacemaker (that's what I use).
So to players, do you often/ever kill Vanaduke without using guns?
And to developpers (okay that's a bit presomptuous to ask but who knows) was Vanaduke designed to be killed with any kind of weapon, like other bosses (JK,Snarby,RT)?

In my opinion killing Vanaduke without using ranged weapons isn't impossible, just extremely hard starting from 5th part, let me explain: to reach Vanaduke at this part its better to extinguish at least 4 of the fireballs circling him, which already might not be so easy considering you also have to deal with the 2 Slag guards and numerous lava tiles around the map, and that the vision range of the character is a bit restricted (the boss itself takes more than a third of the screen I think). Melee against that last part is quite tedious, and the fireballs respawn quite fast.

(Small info for posters: I usually do Vanaduke solo and my weapon strategy is just the following: Leviathan blade for part 1-4 (with some shivermist busting) and almost only Argent peacemaker for 5th part.)

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 03:08

Klipwc

It can be done... but you

It can be done... but you gotta be insane to do it... as far as i know... Only certain weapon charges can hit him... babarous thorn blade and divine avenger [if some of the shadowfire around him is put out], the others probably cant even hit him... You could try spamming Fang of Vog if you have it... The DPS of FoV charge is rather high

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 03:45

zenstar

Legacy Username

Royal jelly requires swords.

Royal jelly requires swords. It's nigh on impossible to do it with guns and not exactly easy with bombs.
If you're going to be doing a boss stratum then make sure you bring the right equipment and know the boss strategy.
Requiring range / swords / bombs is part of the boss strategy IMO and I'll generally stick to the strategy.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 03:50

Thoranhippo

Have seen videos of Royal

Have seen videos of Royal Jelly done with bombs only. And I imagine its also fairly makeable using autoguns (I forgot the exact names of the interesting ones, but it surely can be made with those who poison/burn/freeze).
Just to inform the posters I usually do Vanaduke solo and my weapon strategy is just the following: Leviathan blade for part 1-4 (with some shivermist busting) and almost only Argent peacemaker for 5th part.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 03:51

Sunless

You CAN defeat Vanaduke

You CAN defeat Vanaduke without a gun, but it's not recommended. After all, you're dealing with him moving around, his flame souls, the Slag Knights [who are probably off screen, waiting for you to shift your vision away for a second], and the spawning lava tiles from his inevitable agroing. Given all that, I don't think Vanaduke was created to throw your sword at or fight head-on - at least not in the latter phases.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 05:34

zenstar

Legacy Username

@ThoranNo. I haven't looked

@Thoran
No. I haven't looked up vids of RJ done with bombs, but I guess it's possible.
The big problem with trying to do it with guns is that there are so many adds that get in the way of your shots and your DPS is far lower than a swordie's that RJ can often outheal you if you can't keep the status up on it (and the minis block so many status inflicting shots that that is hard). To counteract all this you have to run right up to the RJ and blast it from point blank. At which point you're better off using a sword.

I guess "required" was too harsh, but "very strongly suggested" is probably not far off.

Of course outgearing the encounter does help make it easier. I'd say that level appropriate gear (3 star gear basically, maybe a couple of 4 stars) would find it very difficult to do with guns and/or bombs (although bombs are a good way of setting everything on fire or maybe keeping the minis blasted out of the way).

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 06:49

Selenashine

Perhaps it's because I

Perhaps it's because I haven't gotten a graviton bomb yet, but I find soloing Jelly King to take ridiculously long as a bomber. I bring Ash of Agni, Stagger Storm, Venom Veiler, with max ctr and very high bonus bomb damage, medium bonus sword damage. It's just set 3 bombs, switch to sword to hit blue block, repeat for 15 minutes.

I don't play Vanaduke much because my game crashes repeatedly at him, but I think that the guarding flames respawn too fast and with no warning to make swords viable in 5th stage.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 07:22

Heimdallr

---

You could try spamming Fang of Vog if you have it... The DPS of FoV charge is rather high

So is the chance of setting yourself on fire, something you really don't want to do in FSC (or anywhere in T3), especially constantly.

Aside from first phase and the mask phases, I sometimes use my Levi if Vanaduke's flame orbs have been extinguished enough to leave an opening. Even then I'm likely to only have enough time for one chance. Then I'm back to blasting him with Peacemaker or Polaris.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 07:59

Sunless

So is the chance of setting

So is the chance of setting yourself on fire, something you really don't want to do in FSC (or anywhere in T3), especially constantly.

But the chance isn't all that high and the damage is negligible [in fire resistant gear]. I'm not saying it's recommended [taking it into the Citadel is quite silly] but it's not that big of an issue in the rest of Tier 3 [assuming you're not running around in flammable equipment].

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 08:49

Thoranhippo

In my opinion 2 aspects of

In my opinion 2 aspects of Vanaduke should be reviewed, that includes:
-changing the camera settings of the map. No joke, the view range is really low for a map so full of dangers.
-"nerfing" Vanaduke, but by that I only mean: increasing the respawn time of its surrounding fireballs. Because in its current state, I'm not sure many players run the risk at the 5th part to extinguish the fireballs to reach Vanaduke with a melee weapon; there's just barely enough time for a charge attack or two..even if usually it ends up I can't even reach it in time with all the flame souls and Slag guards blocking the way)
-(Also, flame souls partly hidden in walls can be a real pain)

Using FoV against Vanaduke doesn't seem very safe. But I haven't tried.

Anyway what I notice, as a conclusion is that despite all the Vanaduke updates we've seen a few monthes earlier, battles always end up the same way: its either you're smart/lucky enough to glitch Vanaduke in some stupid way, or you just fight it the "regular" boring way making circles around it spamming Argent Peacemaker (or else) bullets. (5th part only of course)

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 08:59

#10

Eeks

I've solo'd JK with RSS and

I've solo'd JK with RSS and Nitro/AoA, the former being much faster than the latter. I have two guildmates who gun-only solo it as well. It definitely isn't a sword only boss.

I've tried Vana in a 3 person FoV party. At phase 4 we all had under 4 bars of health left. (I think I finished the fight with 1.5 bars of health lol) This was before the UV fix so we were all rocking maximum fire resist (vog/volc+vog/volc+med uv). We ended up reverting to blitz/shiv and finishing it off. My conclusion was that it isn't viable.

Sick has cleared Vana with only bombs although it was extremely tedious (mostly due to the mask phases). I've cleared it with mostly bombs pre-patch duo using Nitronome/DBB (Phase 1,3,5 only). Definitely lower DPS though and extremely risky since the range is short. I like the DBB for phase 5 better than RSS though since you're mostly getting single hits with the RSS at nearly half the damage but doing 340 damage per bomb vs 2100 damage per blitz charge is silly and not worth it.

Cliffs: JK isn't sword only, Vana is really a gun boss unless you like wasting all your time.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 12:00

#11

Katmint

It's actually possible to

It's actually possible to safely hit Vanaduke in his second body phase with the first hit of Flourish-type weapons without extinguishing any of the fire orbs.

Barbarous Thorn Blade's charge might work for the last phase, but I've never tried it.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 14:51

#12

Pupu

Legacy Username

Yeah

I used to do it before the slag guard fix whenever I was bored.
It's not that hard, it just takes more time and coordination, and you tend to get burnt when the fireballs respawn.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 16:06

#13

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

Zelda

bulls, ive done duke with BTB multiple times and jk with valliance/needle once

the fireballs were NOT an issue to me, as always its slag guards and the fire thingys spawning, idk what makes people think they hav to put out the fire in p5 on duke, when they dont try it out beforehand

hardest things imo is gunning jk(pro gunners can do it easily and slowly, but to me its challenging) and bombing duke(the low dmg makes it extremely exhausting)

honestly i found duke easier with BTB compared to any of the guns, because i hav an awesome movement speed while charging/walking

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 16:26

#14

Evilduck

"taking it into the Citadel

"taking it into the Citadel is quite silly"
Huh? FoV is ace in FSC. Kills trojans and slags like a boss. Slags take less than two charge attacks from FoV with a four man party and the hearts they drop make up for it. Killing slags fast also minimizes the damage everyone in the party would take from slags running into them from off screen (which is a particular problem if you have a shivermist bomber standing fairly stationary). It's definitely worth the few bouts of fire damage you'd take. Anyway, the last few runs I've done I haven't died despite using FoV for the slags (and having teammates constantly unfreezing/turning the guards so my attack is wasted :[).

As for the actual topic.. I don't dispute it's possible to kill vanaduke without a gun but I can't see how it'd be fun to spend that long watering and attacking and probably dying because of spawning fireballs. What's wrong with using a gun?

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 16:45

#15

Reulogh

Aye, DementedDuck revealed

Aye, DementedDuck revealed the tips.

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 17:04

#16

Helwett-Packard

Well, you can do vanaduke

Well, you can do vanaduke with a sword as lOng as everyone else on your team has a gun. And would like to carry you. :D

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 23:19

#17

Sick

Legacy Username

"Whats wrong with using a gun?"

Nothing wrong, its just feels too gimmick-y enforcing a gun-only phase. OP just wants to play his/her own way.

Simple solution here would be to increase the time it takes to respawn his fire orbs.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 07:10

#18

swtdrgn

Legacy Username

My first run at Vanaduke, I

My first run at Vanaduke, I only brought a Vile Striker and an Avenger. Except that I contribute no damage to phase 5 Vanaduke, I dodged, lived, resurrected allies, and pick up hearts after trojan respawns.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 11:59

#19

Thorancheladra

To be honest I don't like

To be honest I don't like spending more time on the 5th part than its 4 previous combined.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:23

#20

Thoranhippo

Hum that one above is mine,

Hum that one above is mine, wrong account :x

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:04

#21

Twili

Legacy Username

Of course it can be done,

Of course it can be done, thats how Vanaduke was kind of designed for. You water the balls over and over to hit him with your sword. But its heavily preferred teams or solo's use guns. A lot quicker anyway.
I've done it with swords only, but that was with the freezing strategy. Its a lot simpler and faster if you know what you're doing.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 16:34

#22

Captain-Teemo

While we're making Vana

While we're making Vana swordie friendly, let's make jk gunner friendly :\

OR we leave the different parts of the game different and leave it to the player to accommodate themselves... <_<

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Question to developpers, Poll to players: Vanaduke, without using ranged weapons?