Spiral Knights - The problem associated with the current state of the unbind system.

The problem associated with the current state of the unbind system.

11 replies [Last post]

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 16:59

Redmania

The unbinding system has to change. Plain and simple.

I am 100% fine with the COST of unbinding items. What is the problem is that it is very difficult to sell bound items to other players that agree on a negotiated price.

Let me provide and example. I was selling a Vog Coat for 7000 Crystal Energy and the buyer had agreed to the price. I walked him over to the unbinding goblin and asked him for the unbinding CE upfront. As most people would be, he was suspicious that I would take his CE and run with it. The transaction did not occur simply because there is no method to unbind equipment using the buyer's CE in one trade.

Most people say that "legit" people should unbind the gear before they sell it. But we are talking about 5 star items with an unbind cost of 4000 CE. If I am unable to sell this piece of gear, I would have lost 4000 CE.

I acknowledge there are many scammers out there. But they are honestly preventing honest traders from doing actual trades.

I would please ask three rings to do something about this. This will probably be the third person who has walked away from a trade simply because there is no way to make a bound item transaction in one trade.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 17:08

Madadder

actually it doesnt have to

actually it doesnt have to change it is good as it is now because this deters players from using it. OOO wants you to work for those prestigious pieces of equipment yourself, but offers the choice to invest in having it unbound for a risky chance at a bigger return on that investment

you're forcing the buyer to pay for the unbind plus the cost of the item with little overhead to you. that's just not right in my book.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 17:08

Providence

Legacy Username

You should probably move this

You should probably move this over to Suggestions.

I think it would be fine to trade bound equipment that stays bound when traded---in order for the new owner to ever equip the item, THEY would need to go see Vise to unbind it.

Naturally, costume equipment would remain marked as untradable in addition to binding on equip.

Of course, what you've described simply comes with the territory of player-to-player trades. The Auction House was made to offer a hands-off way to exchange items, with no chance of scammers running off with your goods. If you can't come to an agreement with the buyer, that's tough. There's not a lot you can do about it, and I'm not totally sure that Three Rings is obligated to rework the whole trade system because of the scammers. Try offering some sort of collateral next time, but I really do feel your pain. It sucks that a few bad apples ruin everyone's reputation.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 17:18

Carabin

Legacy Username

The seller should pay the unbinding cost first. That way, if the deal falls through, the seller still has an unbound item and can look for another buyer. (You wouldn't be out 4000 ce. That sword is going to sell for something.) On the other hand, if the buyer fronts CE for an unbind, and the deal falls through, the buyer is out a bunch of CE.

Why would the buyer back out after he agreed to this deal? There's no gain in backing out. Maybe open up a window and have him show the energy if you're worried about being trolled.

Similarly, should you be nice and buy a recipe from Basil for someone who just joined, you should pay the cost up front if you have it. Or maybe take a 10-20% deposit. If the deal falls through, then you can still auction it.

These might not be the "right" placements of risk, but you have to admit they contain less risk overall than the alternative.

If you trust the /complain to step in, then do whatever.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 17:26

Agathocles

Legacy Username

Solution: Allow items to be

Solution: Allow items to be unbound in the trade window.

'Bound' items can be entered into trade, but will have a fat red 'X' through them, and trade will not proceed until the 'buyer' of said item right-clicks on them and hits 'Unbind'.

This progresses into a window where it asks 'Do you wish to unbind for ? Y/N?' and provides the stat page on the item in question.

The unbind cost is paid at the successful conclusion of the trade.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 17:51

Redmania

Response

@monkeyman135 - You are missing the point. The buyer has agreed to the terms of the trade. Whether you think the buyer should or should not pay the for the full cost of the unbind is irrelevant. The buyer has agreed to the price that has been agreed on.

@Providence - Once again I have thought of providing some sort of crowns for the energy. But once again, scammers can take advantage of this. Let's say I fork over an amount of crowns equivalent to 4000CE. I proceed to unbind the item. Scammer then walks away. Yes, the scammer doesn't technically lose anything, but now I am down an equivalent of 4000CE in crowns. Same problem as before.

@Carabin - I have noticed a complete lack in trust in the game masters in this game. I remember getting scammed in World of Warcraft once. I let the GMs know the time, place and context of the trade. I got my stuff back the next few days and the scammer was warned and banned for a week. People have suggested that I give them a receipt for the transaction, a piece of mail indicating what was traded so that game masters can track it. If I really was a scammer, this would be proof that I was cheating them out of their CE. But the players have zero confidence in game masters to deal with problems.

@Agathocles - A simple and elegant solution.

The whole point of the unbind system is to provide an opportunity to sell high level gear. The current system fails to provide an adequate tool to do precisely this.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 17:58

Algol-Sixty

it is good as it is now

it is good as it is now because this deters players from using it.

That is what the 4k CE for 5* is for, I seriously doubt that OOO intended to create situations that are wide open for hard feels at best and scamming at worst.

Why would the buyer back out after he agreed to this deal? There's no gain in backing out.

Yes, there is a gain for the buyers to back out: [solid waste excretions] and giggles! the same reason for so much of the vandalism, graffiti, bad "pranks", etc. I've heard of it being done for other things, such as recipes and mats, offer to buy something for a high price, get the seller to buy it off the AH or trade tokens or whatever, then back out and laugh.

Or, once the seller has unbound the item, drop your buy offer from 7k CE to 4.5k CE. The seller is pretty well hosed, especially if it is an unpopular item. Sure, they could go try and find another buyer, but if they would only have made the offer to sell for 6k+ CE, they may never find one. They are out of the CE spent unbinding it, and they can't use the item without wasting the unbinding fee.

I agree that the offer to unbind during the trade is the simplest solution and a reasonable one.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 18:29

Carabin

Legacy Username

Unbinding during any random trade puts Vise out of a job. You'd need a patch to let Vise facilitate trades. That might be the best solution, but it can't be the simplest, just considering the usability design of such a feature.

If you're worried about trolls, figure out what you can likely sell the item for if the deal falls through, subtract that from the current offer, and charge the difference as a deposit. Admittedly, on a 5* item that still might be enough to steal, but at least it's less risk for the buyer.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 18:52

Tengu

I agree with the other

I agree with the other posters. This a deterrent to doing this kind of activity. If OOO wanted people to just toss Leviathans around like a basketball, they wouldn't have jacked the build costs up and made everything above 3* bind-on-create. They wanted a way to service the non-players who just HAAAAVE to have the best gear without working for it without a bunch of gray and black market sellers popping up with complicated schemes.

What I think they should do is incorporate an XP system and a minimum level requirement. That'll solve a LOT of problems. Also, why not make these phat l00tz purchasable with IRL moneys like every other F2P game does? I can DL and open any number of F2P games and become an elite player with a credit card. SK only allows you to buy the building blocks for an elite character....but frankly, it takes an elite player to design an elite player, and that's the long and short of it.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 19:37

Eradicats

Legacy Username

I like the idea posted above

I like the idea posted above of being able to trade bound items, but not being able to equip them without unbinding at Vise.

So instead of "this item is bound" (you can't trade it) It would be
"this item is bound to PlayerX", which any player could carry around but only PlayerX could wear.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 20:16

#10

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

Zelda

how about the gremlin sells unbind tickets, which are tradable and most importantly can be sold for the same price at the gremlin

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 20:45

#11

Patito

I really think...

this is a case of too much QQ

I get what you're saying, but frankly you should decide you are going to sell something, and then unbind it whether you have a buyer or not. Serious sellers aren't going to be nervous at all about fronting CE costs because they know the price they want to sell at, and they know they'll get it eventually. The '[solid waste excretions] and giggles' crew will only be successful if you are timid about being a seller, if they agree on a price and you just drop the item in trade, there's not much giggling they can do, because you're a competent seller with the resources to back up a 5* business.

That's my opinion on this. I don't mean to be harsh, but if fronting unbind costs makes you skittish, you probably shouldn't be selling 5* gear.

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The problem associated with the current state of the unbind system.