In the past few weeks I've been noticing a big increase in energy costs. I don't know whether this is solely because of the idiots that are bidding 50-300 crowns higher than the highest bid, or the game developers doing it to force people to buy energy with real cash... Right now it's dangerously close to 6.4k and at 6.5k I'm going to quit...
Energy prices...
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 08:17
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 08:21
#2
Supply, demand, another
Supply, demand, another energy thread, etc. etc.
If you're going to quit then quit. No need to create yet ANOTHER energy thread and shout it from the metaphoric rooftops.
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 08:39
#3
6.5k is manageable, its a
6.5k is manageable, its a decent medium..the pay to play guys make a decent amount off their cash, and most people can still make their gear in a decent time frame. It's the upward trend thats worrying, especially for newer players..things start getting unreasonable up around 7k when diving is barely worth it
I'd love for it to stay around 6-6500cr ideally..unfortunately there are a lot of greedy people who don't care about much other than their own profits and would love to see it higher - then there are people who are either too lazy (or too use to lower prices) and want it at around 5k
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 08:53
#4
not another energy thread ....
In answer to your question, it is the idiots overbidding that make the price rise. I've seen 200 above the next highest bid being posted which was only about 50 less than the lowest offer. Seriously guys, if you're that desperate for CE, just use the auto trade.
Threatening to quit doesn't really achieve anything. So one person goes, so what? Or more often they make a big fuss about quitting but then fail to quit.
As for prices, maybe when all the kids go back to school the demand will drop and so will the price.
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 09:48
#5
"Idiots" generally don't
"Idiots" generally don't cause market shifts unless it's a market bubble (which is a psychological phenomenon when a large proportion of people become disillusioned for some reason). Some people may be stupid, yes. However, the market as a whole is not.
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 10:04
#6
Dont ever try to beat the
Dont ever try to beat the market. Buy low sell high. Buy high , sell higher
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 11:31
#7
who's causing rising energy prices?
not the sellers. not OOO.
it's idiot buyers like koozwad. if they weren't using energy faster than it's injected into the system, we wouldn't have a problem with rising energy prices.
but they want to blame everybody else but themselves for the problem they created.
suggestive solutions for them to help alleviate rising prices:
1) stop using energy beyond the mist tank
2) buy CE with real $
3) create an endowment fund for OOO so the fund can pay for server costs and employee salaries; and make the game truly free to play for everyone.
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 13:01
#8
it is the idiots overbidding
it is the idiots overbidding that make the price rise. I've seen 200 above the next highest bid being posted which was only about 50 less than the lowest offer. Seriously guys, if you're that desperate for CE, just use the auto trade.
Those "idiots" are getting their CE almost as quickly as the auto-trade at less than the cost of auto-trading. Maybe they aren't really "idiots" but rather people who know more than you do.
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 13:11
#9
@ BlackSword
The game devs
@ BlackSword
The game devs could easily change anything they want to, they can also put in their own bids and force people into buying CE with real money.
@ moogzor
It's already hard enough to make money, but with energy at these prices I just don't see the point of playing.
@ insanephoton
I agree with you, you know what's going on. True, one person quitting doesn't achieve anything, but hey, it might get others to do the same.
@ bananafish28
I've bought 100 energy about 2 times in the last week. How does that even make sense what you said? Why don't you sell everything you own and fund their company?
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 14:11
#10
As long as those 'idiots' aren't the ones complaining...
"Those "idiots" are getting their CE almost as quickly as the auto-trade at less than the cost of auto-trading. Maybe they aren't really "idiots" but rather people who know more than you do."
As long as those 'idiots' aren't the ones complaining about high CE prices I don't care, they can do what they want, push the price up to 10k, see if I care. Maybe they do know more than me, but still it strikes me as dumb.
If they were bidding more than 1 block of 100 CE, I might believe there's a smart plan behind it... post 10 blocks and maybe save 500 cr, sounds worthwhile, post 1 block and save 50 cr just sounds like being cheap. Also there is no guarantee that you would buy any sooner than if you posted at a lower price, say just 1 cr above the rest of the market. Maybe you've saved 50 cr or payed 200 cr more than you needed to. Blowing 200cr on a time saving that might not even exist doesn't sound as smart as a 50 cr saving but both could be equally true.
Sellers can't make people buy at higher prices, but if they find buyers willing to pay more, they'll happily raise prices. Just watch the markets a while, you see a short stable period, buy prices clustered around one point, sell prices around a slightly high one. Then the 'idiots' hit, maybe getting away with it for a couple of times with changing anything, until one time there isn't a desperate seller and a few more bids come in clustering around the new higher point. All of a sudden the market price is at the new higher point and any active sellers adjust their prices up, while the inactive sellers get sold. Rinse and repeat and then you'll see how prices have gone up 1k in less than a month. It can work the other way with sellers driving the price down, but there are fewer sellers than buyers and less demand for crowns than there is for CE.
Anyway I don't care, I've a healthy stockpile of CE... enough for my immediate needs and worst case I can spend some real life cash to get more if I want to. Meanwhile I'll play the long game on prices and not try to drive them anywhere, just profit form where you guys take it ;)
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 21:25
#11
who should fund OOO
i'm not the one complaining about CE Prices.
those who complain about CE Prices should be the one to fund OOO so others can have the free CE that they think everyone deserves.
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 05:01
#12
A quick fix
As said before, it's simple supply and demand. They are high in supply, and the demand is infinite. If people stop buying the CE, the prices will drop. As long as they know they can get away with selling it higher and higher, they will. When people stop buying, or the demand falls, the sellers will start dropping in price. The demand will likely drop around 7-8k, where as few people can practically afford to get it. Just be patient :)
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 05:46
#13
demand is not infinite
if it were so, the price would also be infinite; unless supply was infinite as well - then it would be anybody's guess
there is a constant drain on supply. so unless there is an infusion of CE or people stop using energy beyond their mist; CE will inevitably rise until players feel they get better value purchasing it with real $ or they stop playing; both which would have the potential to lower CE prices.
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 06:48
#14
There is no magical level
There is no magical level where people will cut back their usage what will happen like with food and fuel in the real world is the weeker (read newer) knights will have to go without as they don't have access to schemes like arena looping and object resale to bring in the extra crowns. As the new knights will have to cut back there play, they are just as likely to quit the game as buy CE for $. This will bring on other interesting effects in the rest of the economy. Without knowing how much CE is being injected into the system its difficult to know if the supply of CE has reduced, demand for CE has increase or there are do many CR in the system and it is being devalued. The amount of money supplied in SK is unlimited so unless there are enough money sinks in the system there will be inflation. I saw a very interesting post by someone saying energy surges causing CE inflation as there are more crowns chasing the same amount of CE.
I think the biggest mistake of three rings was to make unbinding a CE sink rather than a CR sink, as it increased demand from those most able to aquire CE quickly. CE is like gold a store of value (in this case an amount of game play), one way to effect the price is use of a central bank, to inject CE and remove CE from the market (common in the real world). However I doubt a second source of CE would be introduced as this would effect three rings revenues. The ways to do it would be to reduced the yield in lower level by perhaps increasing the gate price (but that rebellion talk) or (my preferred idea) reduced crown rewards in T2 and T3 by spliting coins across the party rather than playing out face value to all members, this would value small parties (solo) more highly.
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 07:22
#15
Cr in Supply
The amount of money (Cr) supplied in SK in not unlimited; for the similar reason that demand is not unlimited. Cr must still be earned; and it is essentially converted from CE (Clockwork runs) if it is not traded for energy.
Some reasons why CE may be going up faster than players would like; is that there is alot of useless equipment floating around. Not only that, much of it is sold for less than the Cr it took to produce or create. e.g. items that cost 50 CE and 400 Cr to create, i see getting sold for as little as 1k Cr; often fetching around 3k Cr. Given current CE Prices, without considering listing fees, this item should be worth near 4k Cr. But alas, maybe due to the abundance and lack of demand for the equip the selling price is often a fraction of the actual cost to produce the item.
A thought to inject CE into the game; is maybe a smelt; where the blacksmith/alchemist would for a small (Cr) fee convert an equip into either CE or ME whether it is bound or not. e.g. if the item cost 200 Energy to create, you would get 100 CE and 20 ME from melting the equip down. The cost might be 100-500 Cr. You wouldn't want the fee to be 5k, because then the energy extracted would be nearly the same as the fee cost.
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 08:37
#16
It's going up as less people
It's going up as less people are buying CE, there's no way to get CE ingame, Used to be really fast when trying to buy CE now it takes ages so there's way less people selling it. The prices will keep going up till new content comes and people want to buy CE.
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 09:02
#17
You can sell any items to a
You can sell any items to a vendor now, and then use that cash to get CE so effectively you can do that at the moment. It just does not create new CE, I expect why it does not do it is because If you sold 1* or 2* objects made from cheap mats (using mist only) it would effectively be making new CE in the game·
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 09:48
#18
There are many reasons for
There are many reasons for the energy price going up.
There are people speculating by artificially raising the price.
There are people buying stuff in CE at the bazzar forum section and selling them at the AH for profit and then converting the CR back to CE to buy again.
There are more people reselling their items (CE required) than people applying UV (CR required) on their items, because UV rolling system is disappointing (too many useless UV).
But you can be sure of one thing, the higher the price is going the less CE is being bought in $ and the less money is being made by OOO and SEGA.
So be safe, they are very concerned about it and always thinking on how to reverse it :)
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 10:40
#19
@Koozwad
Why exactly are you going to quit? You didn't state a reason.
In your original post you stated a fact about energy prices rising followed by "I'm going to quit."
In logic, you need 2 premises in order to form a conclusion. You have 1:
P - Energy prices are at 6.5k
P - ?
C - I'm going to quit
Perhaps you meant:
P - If energy prices = 6.5k I will quit
P - Energy prices now = 6.5k
C - I will quit
Anyway, that throws your basic premise into question. Why does the number 6500 hold special significance for you?
READ THIS=>With smart playing in T2 you can earn almost double that with under 100 mist energy.
In your second post you said this: "It's already hard enough to make money, but with energy at these prices I just don't see the point of playing."
There are 2 statements in there, so let's separate them and break them down, shall we?
1) It is hard to make money
Answer: No, you're objectively wrong on this point. Perhaps a better way to say it would be, "I can't make as much money as I would like/am accustomed to making etc."
2) With these energy prices there is no point to playing
Answer: The point of playing changes based on the cost of energy? I don't buy it. Perhaps what you really meant was, "I can't progress as quickly/effortlessly as I would like/am accustomed to."
After running through the facts, it can be concluded that you are quitting because you can't get the gear/see the content as quickly as you may have been able to before.
So say that.
Don't say that energy prices are too high. Say energy prices are higher than you'd like. Or say that energy prices are higher than is acceptable for you to continue playing this game in the manner to which you are accustomed.
TLDR: You left out a sentence in your original post.
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 11:04
#20
@pootermobile
ISEEWHATYOUDIDTHERE
1) It is hard to make money
Yes, if it takes longer to make money than before it is harder than before. However, hard is a subjective definition that can't be objectively determined by every individual. The interpretation of hard in this context is done subjectively and not objectively. However, dismissing the interpretation also needs a standard in which it can be objectively compared, which it was not concluded in my evaluation of this post.
2) With these energy prices there is no point to playing
Humans have accustomed themselves to being hopeless under something they feel they can't defeat. With energy price's derivative with respect to time being positive and the derivative of crown prices with respect to time to to zero. It will only occur to most people this is a hopeless uphill battle that will only get worse and worse if this pattern continues. It is with my knowledge that there will be a feeling of hopelessness, but the actual data that supports this assertion is not quite so which was stated in your point. After all, a rise from 3000 Crown to 6500 Crown price is only a mere 117% increase in about 6 Months. Hopeless, no. Crown can be infinitely gained by spending time playing this game for about the next 9239273972 years to purchase a near infinite amount of CE.
TLDR: You are cool
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 11:26
#21
i know what to do
we all gotta bid ce 5kcr it will work tell anybody u know ce sellers dont have a choice if we all bid 5kcr lets do this together!!!
peace :D
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 12:04
#22
So? We can also tell all
So? We can also tell all sellers to not sell CE, then what will you do? You will be begging people to sell CE at6.5k. This works both ways, sellers put money in the system, you put time. So put in time.
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 12:52
#23
the flaw in manfredo's plan...
Let's suppose just for 1 second that it works, everyone bids 5kcr. Some people will get their 100CE at that price because there is always someone who needs the crowns right now. Sellers may or may not take any notice, but sooner or later (and knowing the SK community it will be sooner) some of the buyers will break ranks. They'll want their CE now and not next week. If someone really wanted CE and saw that there was a block of 1000 or 10000 bids at 5k, they might think I'll post at 5001 to get my CE sooner, a few people have the same idea and then someone will overbid them and the price will rise and so on and so on , then your 5k wall will crumble.
And to further emphasise sterlingd's point , if buyers play that game, what is there to stop sellers retaliating by setting the price to 10k, 20k or even 100k (ok 100k is getting ridiculous, but you get the point)
Tue, 08/30/2011 - 15:42
#24
@Flowy
"1) It is hard to make money
Yes, if it takes longer to make money than before it is harder than before. However, hard is a subjective definition that can't be objectively determined by every individual. The interpretation of hard in this context is done subjectively and not objectively. "
- I stated that it is objectively not hard to make money because all it takes to make money is clicking a couple buttons, pressing your attack key a couple times, and picking up crowns. This is objectively not hard for the average gamer. This doesn't necessarily invalidate what you're saying, but I was simply pointing out that one can not say that making money is difficult in this game. There is a literally endless amount of crowns available for anyone to farm.
"2) With these energy prices there is no point to playing
Humans have accustomed themselves to being hopeless under something they feel they can't defeat."
- *Some* humans have accustomed themselves to being hopeless under something they feel they can't defeat. Making this a universal statement is absurd because we have things like Jews hiding from Nazi's in WW2, the American Revolutionary War, and the Civil Rights Movement which all exemplify humans not being hopeless in the face of hopeless situations. This is just me playing devil's advocate.
TLDR: Let's be friends.
6.5k really isn't that bad. I personally would love for energy prices to come back down
but it's not that hard to make 6.5k. And it's not the game developers fault.
The market is run by the players.