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Cold Iron Vanquisher With Radiant Silver Mail vs Leviathan Blade

9 replies [Last post]
Mon, 08/29/2011 - 22:52
Eeyuppy's picture
Eeyuppy

I know that this kind of thread has already been discussed many a time. The thing is I never found a thread that could answer all my questions about the differences between the Leviathan blade and the Cold Iron vanquisher. Could anyone who has experience or knowledge about eitheir blades please answer my questions?
The Leviathan blade does consistently more damage than the Cold Iron Vanquisher on all enemies except for undead. I heard that the difference isn't huge though and that it wouldn't affect anything. Is this true? I already know that the Leviathan blade's charge has greater knockback than the Cold Iron Vanquisher. However I heard that the Cold Iron Vanquisher is more likely to hit multiple times with its charge attack because of its inferior knockback. Can anyone confirm this?
The Cold Iron Vanquisher seems to only do a little more damage to the undead than the Leviathan Blade does. However if you were to wear the Radiant Silvermail would it make a significant difference? The Cold Iron Vanquisher has a high damage bonus to undead. The Radiant Silvermail has a medium bonus to undead. So if you put them together the Cold Iron Vanquisher would have an ultra damage bonus to the undead.
Is the Leviathan blade still superior to the Cold Iron Vanquisher despite the vanquishers ability to deal ultra damage bonus to the undead (and if its true its chance to hit mobs multiple times with its charge attack) ?

(Note: I'am aware that the Leviathan blade can also gain damage bonuses with the barbarous thorn shield, skolver and vog set. However I choose not to wear them because they don't have the damage type protection and resistances that I need)

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 00:07
#1
Sturak
Legacy Username
A level 10 Leviathan Blade

A level 10 Leviathan Blade does about 10 more damage to all enemies except Undead compared to the Cold Iron Vanquisher.
The CIV does about 10 damage more to Undead than the Leviathan Blade does.

Overall, the Leviathan Blade is much better for general use.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 02:22
#2
culture
Legacy Username
Hmm

At Depth 24, for a neutral weapon each level of UV will increase the damage by 6.78%. But CIV has a lower base damage to start from. So this is about what would end up happening...

D24 Levi 193 Base Damage
+ Radiant increass damage by 26
= 219

D24 CIV 213 Undead Damage (177 Base Damage)
+ Radiant increases damage by 24
= 237

So with that setup, the difference in damage is 18 between Levi/CIV. Or in other words - 1/12th of a swing.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 04:22
#3
Yeoo's picture
Yeoo
If you have been doing your

If you have been doing your research like you said you have, then I've imagined you've read multiple comments about how the extra 10 damage levi deals over CiV is completely negligible, as it would still take the same amount of strikes to kill a monster. The same can be said with CiV on an undead over leviathan.

The only real difference I find with the two blades is with the charge attacks.
From what I know, both blades have the potential to hit up to 2-3 times on the charge.
In cases of immobile mobs (frozen or puppies), when you are directly next to the enemy, CiV will hit thrice, as for for leviathan I'd assume the same but I haven't got one so I might be wrong. (Though I'm quite confident it is the case)
As far as i've seen against mobile mobs, levi's charge will almost never hit for more then once, where as CiV could be consistently hitting twice.
And just to add, I don't think I've seen my CiV hit for thrice on a moving mob.

Also, I think it is general consensus that leviathans knock-back is quite bothersome to the party.
I've seen many situations where lumbers would be flying towards people mid strike and do some hurting.

Back when I first started, I chose CiV over leviathan because of the looks.
I didn't care if CiV was worse, I'd make it up with skill (lol), but since acquiring CiV I have never considered leviathan to be better, rather I'd imagine CiV was better due to the charge. Then again, I've never owned a leviathan. (But it's the same as a calibur isn't it?)

Lastly, I don't think you should consider using radiant silver mail, there are better alternatives if you don't want to go vog or skolver. Namely magic cloak line and

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 13:49
#4
Eeyuppy's picture
Eeyuppy
Thanks for the comments guys.

Thanks for the comments guys. Even though the people in older posts said that the damage difference of 10 was negligable they didn't have the damage charts at their disposal. When I was looking at the damage charts the differences in damage between Cold Iron Vanquisher and Leviathan Blade increase. It looks like the base damage difference between them is around 20 in tier 6. I do remember this was posted in one thread, however it was never stated whether or not this made a real difference or not. To know this I would need to know how monster's health increase as the tiers progress. I would try and estimate this using tier's 1-3 but sadly I am a long ways from reaching tier 3. Anyone who can estimate this for me is the damage difference between the Leviathan and the Cold Iron still negligable by tier 6?

I understand where a base damage difference of 10 could be negligable on tier's 1-3, but is a damage difference of 18 still be negligable? Would it change the amount of strikes to kill monsters that can take multiple hits? (Such as phantoms and the new undead turret monsters)

I agree with the idea of going for the magic cloak line; I'am currently trying to get the grey owlite set. However I also wanted to protect myself from piercing and shadow damage. Radiant silvermail seemed perfect for this. Besides it protects me from curse and posion, which means I'am only vulnerable to sleep, freeze and stun. Sleep is very rare so I don't even worry about it. My future Leviathan or Cold Iron's charge will save me when I get frozen or stunned. That is why I choose the radiant silvermail armor. If you still disagree what armor specifically besides vog or skolver should I go for?

Edit:

iYeo you were right about not using radiant silvermail. I guess mixed sets just don't give enough defence towards any type of monster. It still kept me from getting horrendous damage, but every time I got hit I still lost around 4-6 bars of life. For anyone new reading this it would probably be best to create a set of armor in each individual type of damage. Now I lose like 1-3 bars of life (4 Max) when I get hit.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 20:29
#5
Nievem's picture
Nievem
While the damage difference

While the damage difference is smaller the lower the level, also the monster's health, since the entire game works like that... Also as far as i know the bonus damage from radiant, will be added first to your existing bonus, and then it will be applied to the sword's damage, it won't add it over your modified sword damage, so it won't make a difference between the two swords. Damage may be important for number crunching but it is not a deciding factor for the average player. As a leviathan user I can't imagine how would it help me to unleash a charge that doesn't do enough knockback, as the main use of the charge is to hit and run, except you can't run so you push the enemies instead, that being said I would find it useful in some instances, but not most. CIV's knockback may or may not be enough but its users apparently manage so its cool. The same way a CIV user can work his way around a levi user can as well, before unleashing your charge look at the battlefield and think where its best to push the enemy. Sometimes you'll fail but that will be because of a genuine mistake. Leviathan will hit only once on mobile enemies, and you may learn how to hit twice and even thrice as you play, even on an open field (common with gremlins), but even after learning it may be difficult to pull off, it hits three times with Shivermist unless you push them to much on the first hit. I suggest you compare the knockback of both and decide which you like more, and if you want civ because it looks cooler then go ahead forget about numbers.

The calibur line charge will rarely save you during any status affliction, during freeze, if you you got frozen, you are probably about to be hit again before you charge, stun makes all your animations so damned slow you are better not attacking at all and just running away until it wears off, the charge even if you get to unleash it will take so long it will let enemies you missed hit you with ease. During shock it will not let you charge, same as fire, with curse you cant attack, poison is the only one left but your charge will be too weakened to unleash, only useful on emergencies, you better wait until the timer runs.

Fire is the only status that covers wide areas thanks to the flamethrower attacks, the others are easier to dodge/shield. Fire is nice to max out, your owlite will help you some even if you dont max out. Having half of each defense is okay if you wont spend a lot and want a single set, you'll have to play careful of not getting hit as always.

Wed, 08/31/2011 - 20:22
#6
Eeyuppy's picture
Eeyuppy
Since I can't compare the

Since I can't compare the knock of both the Cold Iron and the Leviathan I decided to watch a video of the Cold Iron in action on you tube. The video I watched was: Spiral Knights: T3 Fire Arena Mad Bomber Set Solo - 0 death 3 pills - 28.05.11 (part 1/6). What I don't get is sometimes the Cold Iron Vanquishers knockback seems great in some instances; while in others it seems to do 0 knockback. Is the Cold Iron's knockback dependent on which direction your facing?

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 00:24
#7
Nievem's picture
Nievem
cant answer for that, but

cant answer for that, but that knockback seems okay, and its enough to bother teammates I believe. The knockback depends on your impulse and the enemy impulse at the moment of contact and how close the enemy is to your characters center doing that, with leviathan you can send a lumber to the other side of the arena with ease since you get very close to try to do as many hits as possible. You should buy a calibur for 2000 crowns or so and use its charge a bit, its hard to explain with words but once you start pushing things around you'll learn how the it works. But seeing that video just go with the one that looks cooler to you since they apparently work the same with some tweaked values, even if at some point there's a difference big enough to notice (ie needing one more hit on one monster somewhere, or not pushing far enough for your situation, or pushing too far) you'll be accustomed to using your sword so it won't matter. I still see it downing the turrets in one charge solo and seems to have the ability to push monsters away from you so its okay :P

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 20:52
#8
Eeyuppy's picture
Eeyuppy
Thank's for all of the help

Thanks guys for all the help. Guess I'll go for the Cold Iron Vanquisher since its knock back is similar to the calibur, I can still help teamates and am able to create openings to run through. Oh and of couse because its wayy cooler than the Levi ;)

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 08:48
#9
Skillkid
you k what

levithan rules soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much

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