Reduce arena payouts.
That's all it would take. Stop flooding the system with massive crowns from cupcake levels (tier 1 arenas that people loop) and prices will go down.
How to reduce CE prices:
Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:03
Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:28
#2
Revives?
I haven't thought through it much at all, but if the cost of reviving was changed from some amount of CE to some amount of crowns, might that want to make players more willing to sell CE?
Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:42
#3
Jelly Palace payouts were
Jelly Palace payouts were never nearly as out of line with everything else in the game as arenas are now. Jelly Palace is also a lot harder than looping tier 1 arenas, so it wasn't something that everyone and his neighbor's dog could do trivially. Arena payouts need a nerf more than jelly palace ever did, albeit for about the same reasons.
Sat, 09/03/2011 - 22:42
#4
Move the sale of CE to the auction house
I think many problems with pricing and control of CE would be solved by moving CE buying to the AH.
1. the price would be controlled more by the buyers of CE vs. the sellers as it is now. ( buyers must currently bring their price up to get someone to sell to them or pay the lowest seller)
2. Selling large blocks of CE to slow a decline of prices or freeze a price would end. You can sell in bulk but if your price isn't competitive your just wasting crowns on a posting fee.
3. Players could buy or sell CE in segments instead of having to buy or sell 100CE at a time ( I know you can also do this through trades ) without being forced to pay above market by some sellers ( including myself )
4. I hope that over time this would mostly stabilize the price as the AH has done for most of the items that are for sale.
One other suggestion might be to change the luxury items that require CE such as slot upgrades and costume crafting over to crowns. This would keep some crowns out of the system and possibly create more demand for crowns
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 01:34
#5
"I hope that over time this
"I hope that over time this would mostly stabilize the price as the AH has done for most of the items that are for sale."
Prices on items in the auction house are far less stable than crystal energy prices. For example, I sold a chroma tear for 2499 crowns today. They used to be far cheaper than that, but became more expensive because there weren't any gates at fourth stratum or later that commonly had chromalisks for a while.
But the more fundamental problem with your proposal is that you're trying to adjust the equlibrium price by means of changing the auction mechanisms. That is doomed to fail. The best you could hope for is to change prices by driving some people out of the market entirely, or making it such a hassle to deal with that it effectively functions like a tax on trading energy that people build into their bids. That makes both buyers and sellers worse off. Some badly designed auction mechanisms can have bubbles and move things away from eqilibrium for a while, but that just makes a mess, and is not something that should be intentionally designed into the game.
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 01:37
#6
How to actually reduce prices:
Offer more incentives towards selling CE besides getting Crowns.
Reducing payouts would just make more people complain about how hard CE is to get.
Even though it isn't.
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 04:15
#7
I think many problems with
I think many problems with pricing and control of CE would be solved by moving CE buying to the AH.
Uh, ->NO<-
1. the price would be controlled more by the buyers of CE vs. the sellers as it is now. ( buyers must currently bring their price up to get someone to sell to them or pay the lowest seller)
Prices on both markets are controlled by supply and demand. On the AH, the supply is huge and the demand is fairly low, therefore it is a buyer's market. On the CE market, the demand is huge and the supply is limited, therefore it is a seller's market. Moving CE to the AH would not change this.
2. Selling large blocks of CE to slow a decline of prices or freeze a price would end. You can sell in bulk but if your price isn't competitive your just wasting crowns on a posting fee.
A listing fee, as the AH has, does indeed reduce the amount of stuff listed and increases risks. The result, however, is prices are higher and supply is lower than they would be without a listing fee. Do you really want to see the cr<->CE exchange rate go up? Do you really want to see the market become less stable?
4. I hope that over time this would mostly stabilize the price as the AH has done for most of the items that are for sale.
Uh, the AH prices are no where *near* as stable as the cr<->CE market. I regularly see price swings within a single day on of 20%-200% on various items. As an example, about a week and a half ago, I as selling ghost bells for 6.7k each for about an hour, then they swung back to more normal levels of 1k-3k, but even 1k-3k is a huge range. I've seen lots of other examples, from recipes to armor. People complain about a 20%-30% swing in the cr<->CE exchange rate over a month, imagine the complaining if it regularly swung by more than 100% within a single day.
The reason why the AH prices can swing so much is because the supply on the actual market is limited. At this instant, there are less than 40 ghost bells for sale with a maximum BIN of 6k. I could easily buy out the entire market. I could also flood the market, with my stock of them. The reason why i don't list my supply on the AH is because of the risk of not selling, and that goes for everyone else. All it takes is one person who wants to a bunch of silversixes and the market can get cleared out. If there wasn't a listing fee, there would be several times as many ghost bells on the market and therefore the price couldn't swing as much.
@Quizzical
Jelly Palace payouts were never nearly as out of line with everything else in the game as arenas are now. Jelly Palace is also a lot harder than looping tier 1 arenas, so it wasn't something that everyone and his neighbor's dog could do trivially
Uh, yeah, the JK floors were as profitable as all but the very best T2 arenas are now and Jk floors are much easier than arenas because you fight a far more limited set of monsters.
I agree that arena payouts need to be nerfed, but it isn't going to come close to lowering the cr<->CE exchange rate to the point that the game will be fun for new players. The change would probably be too small to notice.
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 05:18
#8
How to reduce CE
How to reduce CE prices...
Phase 1. Flood Market with low priced CE
Phase 2. ???
Phase 3. Reverse Profit
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 05:25
#9
Hello!
INB4 "supply and demand folks....supply and demand..." Derpp
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 17:16
#10
@ CE in the AH
CE selling in
@ CE in the AH
CE selling in the AH wouldn't cause the prices to be unstable at all.
First off, you're comparing CE (essentially crowns, since everyone's crowns are converted to CE anyway) to Mats. Some mats are rare, some are not, some are only found in a common strata, some are only found in unliked strata. A Mats price in the AH is based on availability of and the difficulty to get to the Mat, which changes with the clockworks, meaning access to certain Mats may not be possible sometimes. Crowns are everywhere, all the time.
Second of all, the main problem with the buy/ sell button system for CE is that you can't immediately buy without buying "sticker price". Since there are no other ways to buy CE, buyers have no choice buy to buy at sticker price, which allows the price to continually rise without problem. If CE were to be put in the AH, players would be able to say no to overpriced CE, and buy what they would rather have (being cheap). CE would become de-valued, but that's what everyone wants, but there's no way in SK that CE would become cheaper than the money it costs to get it. Saying buyers would drive the price dirt cheap is insane, as CE is used with EVERYTHING, so they wouldn't be able to just not buy and still be able to play the game, and at the same time, someone's not going to buy $20 worth of CE and sell it for $10 worth of crowns.
Putting CE in the AH is the closest thing I've seen to a solution to bringing down the price of CE.
That being said, I don't really mind that CE is expensive. This game requires either Time or Money, and I've got plenty of time.
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 17:28
#11
I think we just need some
I think we just need some more crown sinks. I'd imagine theres plenty that could be done, i'm no expert nor have i thought about it a lot as i don't really care all that much but they could raise the amount of crowns for crafting and lower CE, add more stuff similar to punch etc etc..perhaps even small things like making gates similar to the energy ones atm in the clockworks, but for crowns.
who knows
edit: also more on topic i guess, i don't think arenas need their payout changed at all (except perhaps in T1 only), nor do i think it'd change anything regarding CE.
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 18:10
#12
Better
How about we stop thinking in this way, and more so think about things like this?
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/23548
Please read with-out CE prices directly in-mind, but the whole game itself
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 18:10
#13
CE for trinket slot upgrades
CE for trinket slot upgrades and weapon slot upgrades needs transferred to crowns. This will save a lot. There is really no incentive to sell CE for crowns on this game. Most people who have a good amount of CE only use it for crafting, weapon slot, and trinket upgrades. You change the cost of these to lets say, 25k crowns each or 20k crowns each, and there is a incentive to sell some CE to pay for these, or the other option is go into the clockworks which takes time. Plus this would also make it easier for regular people to get the upgrades.
There was a level in the JK run that used to pay more and OOO nerfed the payout. CE prices didn't change much.
While there are levels that pay more than others, they are dwarfed by the overall amount of crowns that are being fountained into the game. There needs to be long term reasons why people *want* more crowns, other than to buy CE with. Those reasons must be compelling enough to get people who buy CE with real money to want to sell some of it for crowns.