Spiral Knights - Volcanic Pepperbox- Unused gun

Volcanic Pepperbox- Unused gun

35 replies [Last post]

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 08:50

Lomase

I have been using Pepperbox as long as I have been playing and except for the JK boss I have never wanted another weapon and I do not understand why no one is using it. For me, Pepperbox is probably the only all rounder gun there is. It deals a 600 dmg charge burst in end of t2 which is what you will want to be using most of the time, not the crappy 2 burst normal attack. Despite popular beliefs, the Pepperbox is NOT a situational gun it is just that people never learnt how to use it. I have used it to effectively kill every mob in the game except for JK, which is a bit more difficult.

The main difference between the Pepperbox is the 'pull' effect of the charge. Some people say that it is bad but I believe that it is quite the opposite and that it provides many benefits which other guns do not have.

- The damage of charge attack is significantly increased as mobs are pulled towards the source of bullets.
- NEGATES mob dodging. Mobs which usually dodge other guns cannot dodge the charge of Pepperbox because they are being pulled in.
- Staggers attack animation. Can instantly interrupt mob attacks.
- Trips mobs. Takes them around 2 secs to get back up, allowing you time to shield bump or follow up with melee weapon.
- Only gun good against shield knights. What you do is you hit them with a normal burst, which they will block. Then you begin charging the gun, when they unshielded you release the charge, they will get pulled in and take full damage. Rinse and repeat.

My current setup is Pepperbox and Shivermist buster/Graviton bomb. This works well to cover the Pepperbox's weakness, when there are too many mobs to shoot, I will put down a bomb and pick them off.

I really do not understand why no one uses this gun.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 09:14

Benb

Hey, if you think it's a good

Hey, if you think it's a good gun and it really works well for you, what's stopping you from using it? It's just that it's sort of outclassed by the Blitz Needle. If you want more about it, try asking Timanth in his thread or someone like that. Also, doesn't this belong in Arsenal?

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 09:56

Motorcat

The Volcanic Bananabox truly

The Volcanic Bananabox truly is an underdog gun and (imo) most people shy away from crafting it because it doesn't do a specialized damage type. What they're really missing out on is the ability to play scorpion from MK which shines in certain circumstances: pulling silkwings away from mobs, zombies camping totem radius, countering evasive gremlins/chromalisks etc.

In T3 be careful to not pull in a monster in the middle of its attack animation since it's not a guarantee that it will stagger its attack.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 15:35

Garbeld

I don't know about other

I don't know about other people, but for me the period of immobility is the dealbreaker. I'm too used to a fast, mobile playstyle - anything else is irritating and uninteresteing. Heavy swords are only barely tolerable, and that's with a swiftstrike buckler. Plus, it punishes mistakes harder, which as a rather clumsy individual is problematic for me - but I enjoy challenging myself anyways, so eh.

If the autogun were either fully automatic (hold to fire a stream) or allowed turning during attacks, I would absolutely love it. As is, much to my sadness... no.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 15:45

Andyspace

i have pepperbox and i like

i have pepperbox and i like it since it does fire.
and it can pull enemies, so it is accurate.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 18:12

Wfawwer

The auto-gun line is really

The auto-gun line is really good, but what you get the auto-gun for is for Vanaduke. The blitz needle's charge attack does around 3k damage to vanaduke, and I believe there is a video on youtube of 3 knights with blitz needles taking down vanaduke in 2:30.

The Poison line of the autogun is more of a support line, but still crazy good on vanaduke nonetheless. I think the reason Pepperbox isn't used is that the immobile period hurts a lot in t3, and that most people only use guns for vanaduke.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 22:26

Lomase

Yea, for the Pepperbox in

Yea, for the Pepperbox in order to use it effectively, I need to pair it up with a movement controlling bomb. Pepperbox almost strictly does single target damage so if you have multiple targets chasing you it is a problem. However I know that it is possible to use it in arenas without the bomb as I have walked into frost arenas with Shivermist. =/

I also don't believe that the Pepperbox is outclassed by Blizneedle because its charge attack does significantly higher damage to everything except for beasts, fiends and Vanaduke. The problem with that is that beasts and fiends are the two monster types that often dodge and will often dodge the Needle's shots. I believe the Pepperbox is actually more effective against these two monster types because of the pull which negates the dodging and the larger spread of the shots. Although I have heard from someone that the Needle can 'juggle'. Not sure how that works.

Needleshot also loses a lot with slime and mechanical turrets. I find the Pepperbox's burst damage is very effective against turrets as it only takes at most 1 charge and 1 burst to kill any mob turret in the game.

However the Blizneedle is superior in several ways:
- Higher dmg non-charge attack
- Higher range
- Tighter spread *This is dependable on situation
- Kills Vanaduke more effectively

Also I'm hoping to finish the damage chart for Volcanic Pepperbox and Bliz Needleshot in the wiki, would anyone with a Bliz Needle pop up and we'll do it together?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 03:25

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

Zelda

i been recently looking to get a pepperbox, but only because i hav a free weapon slot still n im probably gona suck with that gun just like i do with a striker

thers just a ton of other weapons id prefer for most situations

ur using shivermist n graviton, what wide variety swords and guns could u charge up on monsters, that are attacked by these bombs..im just sayin

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:51

Grittle

me, i use the pepperbox its

me, i use the pepperbox

its better for a gunner-bomber style setup

and the fire after damage if good, exept for oilers.

its just the blitz needle its more popular end game

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 22:03

Lomase

The reason you might want to

The reason you might want to you Pepperbox with Shivermist or Graviton, as opposed to other weapons is because Pepperbox has one of the highest damaging, if not THE highest, single target charge attack in the game.

Sun, 10/16/2011 - 17:04

#10

Lomase

Yay I'm back, let's necro

Yay I'm back, let's necro this thread.

Sun, 10/16/2011 - 23:14

#11

Happyapathy

I mainly use my volcanic

I mainly use my volcanic pepperbox to take down large enemies rapidly because their size means they will eat every bullet you dish out, plus their attacks tend to leave them vulnerable to a slower attack like the autoguns, it's a strangely appropriate gun to kill lumbers with considering how their made mostly out of wood

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 02:12

#12

Dirty-Harry

I used to use a pepperbox and

I used to use a pepperbox and needle shot, and as a pure gunner it's the best damage you will get. But in T3 you just can't afford to stand still for that long. In T2 you can get away with a hit or two, but in T3 every hit you take is vital. Even if you are skilled in knowing when to fire and how to avoid attacks, the mobs move way too fast or get moves that you just can't stand still for in T3. I found myself just avoiding firing anything most of the time in T3 just because of how hard it was to get a safe shot. Also, the range is also pretty pathetic for a gun, you might as well be using a sword in most of the situations because at max range, all of the shots wont hit and the damage will be minimal. For Lumbers and turrets the gun seems viable, but even then I'd rather use a Polaris or alchemer because of the range, or a Supernova or Valiance because of the knockback they get (two very good underrated all-rounder guns as well.)

Especially against devilites and kats is where I find the issues most prevalent.

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 07:30

#13

Lomase

Yea, Kats is a problem for

Yea, Kats is a problem for me. It's not because they move fast, it's more because they have really small hit boxes.

So are those mecha knights. I find that without mob control, the only way to kill a knight that is attacking you is to charge you shot wait til they get close enough and begin their attack animation, then you attack =.= very risky.

But in terms of range of Autogun would probably be the gun with the lowest EFFECTIVE range. With defense though, Pepperbox does have something going for it, which is 100% interrupt chance on pretty much anything you hit with the charge. Enemies also gets pulled into shield bouncing range.

With what you said about Valiance, I've always thought valiance was a pretty low damage gun with some kiting capabilities. People who use it say that it is good but I simply don't get it. Can anyone explain the advantages of using that gun to say Antiguea or alchemer series.

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 08:27

#14

Nimjaelf

i knew it was good!!

i knew it was good!! im working on three star stuff and i was aiming to get a pepperbox.yay im glad i got some conformation that this is a good gun

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 14:45

#15

Novium

Pepperbox Owns!

Even though i personally prefer the Blitz Needle, I must admit that the pepperbox is the best all round-support gun. It won't mess any1 up except in an arena of oilers, and it is the most useful gun against menders(no time up put your bubble up huh? NOOBS). I did a run with Lomase the other day and it was a pleasure working with a rare-volcanic pepperbox user =D. It is definitely a gun worth getting, and the fire makes it even more useful. Storm Driver Charge+ Pepperbox Charge= Ownage :D

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 22:23

#16

Aljevoias

I have a volcanic pepperbox,

I have a volcanic pepperbox, never use it anymore though.

Two main reasons - the lack of mobility is a big issue in T3 and it does normal damage. Any enemy a pepperbox is good on, the pulsar or umbra driver will be better. And there's no enemies weak to pierce that you'd actually want to shoot at, need a sword for those.

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 22:30

#17

Arctic-Fern

Heh...

the lack of mobility is a big issue in T3

Not if they die in 1 charged attack. Standing still for 2 seconds is worth it. Trust me.

it does normal damage

That's not why it's bad IMO.
Pepperbox line is bad because it deals less damage than Blitz Needle (vs neutral targets, check the bars!) in exchange for a status that is worthless when you try to kill them in 1 volley, plus a "Get Over Here!" mechanic that is meh at best.

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 22:36

#18

Aljevoias

"Not if they die in 1 charged

"Not if they die in 1 charged attack. Standing still for 2 seconds is worth it. Trust me."

This may be true rarely do you fights the mobs one at a time, and lining up a perfect pepperbox shot takes much longer than just doing the polaris moonwalk. For a T3 solo weapon none of the autoguns are particularly good.

As far as damage types goes, what I meant to imply was that if you carry a Polaris, Umbra Driver, and an Final Flourish or Barbarous Thorn Blade, you'll be able to hit every single enemy with their weak damage type. There's no reason to carry a normal weapon - argent peacemaker is good for Vana but I usually carry a freeze bomb in my 4th weapon slot.

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 23:06

#19

Dirty-Harry

The only reason I see

The only reason I see carrying a normal weapon in T3 is for Vanaduke's mask, and even then that's only if you're teammates can cover some of the useful bombs that you don't need to hold in your 4th slot.

Also, getting knockdown with the charge may be handy, but all the time you spend charging up the gun you could spend helping out the team in most situations. In FSC you barely get any breathing room to charge up anything, but then again you shouldn't be using the pepperbox in there in the first place.

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 00:17

#20

Arctic-Fern

There is space and time to charge, trust me

I use the Blitz a lot (in t3). Whether in a solo or party situation, you'll get opportunities to charge it. (But you'll have to take my word for it because I don't have a video.)

When will Blitz Needle will be useful?
1. Devilish Drudgery, Graveyard - There are lots of places to hide behind. Brown boxes, graves... you name it.
2. Wolver Den - There's either a lot of space to move around or bushes to hide behind, depending on your preference before you press the party button.
3. Arenas w/ Beasts or Fiends - There's usually no turrets to bother you, you can move around while charging, just don't miss. If the turrets are out, you got a shadow gun and elemental gun and can prioritize them.
4. Power Complex, Wasteworks, Blast Furnace, Cooling Chamber - Long hallways and boxes.

And to "rarely do you fight mobs one at a time", I say "you don't fight them all at once". It isn't hard to go down a corridor in situation #4, find an opening in #3 or #2, or find cover in #1.

I'm just using Blitz as an example, but you can use the Volcanic Pepperbox on these situations and even against Constructs and Slimes in addition, so...

tldr: Just try it.

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 00:27

#21

Arctic-Fern

Normal damage

Re: Normal Damage
If the Pepperbox line dealt as much damage as the Needle line, I can seriously give a thought to consider it over the Blitz. It would've killed nearly everything in one charge (up to a 2-member party) on top of its "pull" mechanic... but because of its reduced damage in exchange for its crummy status, nah.

Re: Who else would use it?
1. as a combo with Shivermist/Graviton, as stated by the OP
2. vs Vanaduke as an alternative for Blitz (but alas it does weaker damage so it isn't worth it!)

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 00:37

#22

Lomase

@ Dirty-Hairy charging up

@ Dirty-Hairy charging up Pepperbox/Needleshot is helping your team. With Blitz and Pepper, you can out dps most sword users just by using the charge.

So if you really want to help your team you might want to get these guns and charge them.

Also your inability to charge this gun is probably due to you not being able to charge weapons in general. If you find that you don't have any breathing room you:

Create some by shield bouncing.
Probably should have positioned yourself better with the monster spawn.
Don't use this gun like a sword.

I mean really I go into FSC and all I use is charge attacks. I usually go in with Pepperbox/Alchemer and Shivermist all of which is ONLY effective if you charge.

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 01:06

#23

Lomase

@Artic-Fern

Each individual bullet of the Pepperbox does lower damage as the bullets of the Needleshot line.

However, in GENERAL (general = not Duke) battle situations, I believe that Pepperbox WILL deal more damage than the Needleshot line, this is because Pepperbox has lower RANGE but much higher EFFECTIVE RANGE against monsters which can be pulled.

RANGE = The Distance that one individual bullet will travel.
EFFECTIVE RANGE = How far between you and the monster before the damage of the gun lowers to the point that the gun is ineffective.

As you have used the Needleshot line you have no doubt seen that against monsters in general -not Vanaduke- the Needleshot is only effective if you are relatively close to the monster. ( especially against monsters with small hitboxes, Namely Kats, small wolvers, devilites.) After a certain distance between you and the monster, you will start to notice that your damage will drop significantly.
Even though the bullets of the Needleshot has higher range than the Pepperbox, realistically you will not use the Needleshot at that range mainly because it is very ineffective. (For all of this I'm talking about the charge attack of course.)

The Pepperbox on the other hand has the pull. This means that if you were to use the Pepperbox at a range that is not almost point blanc, as the monster gets pulled towards your gun a much larger number of shots will hit, causing more damage in total.

Although Pepperbox has a lower range than the Needle it has a much higher effective range.

Even against Kats, Devilites and wolvers, I'd much rather use a Pepperbox as opposed to a Needle because of:

a) Dependable attack interruption. (100%)
b) Generally higher damage at a reasonable range.

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 01:51

#24

Arctic-Fern

You have a point for Box support...

...some points:
1. I think Blitz also has 100% attack interruption and knockdown against Beasts and Fiends. Just not on Gremlins, Undead, Slimes and Constructs which can be an issue with menders who sometimes get to put up their shield. Also doesn't have movement interruption on stuff that can't be knocked down like Kats, I think.
2. Regarding effective damage and range, it's hard to measure precisely if Pepperbox effectively deals more damage than Blitz outside of close range (defined as the range where all Blitz/Box projectiles would've hit regardless of pull). Blitz charge attack damage overall drops off midway across its range or further because some bullets will miss, but at what point would the Box and its about 28% (?) damage penalty will make up for the missed projectiles of Blitz is tough to measure. That translates to about 4 Blitz shots missed against a Box full clip.

Given perhaps that Pepperbox has a status, guaranteed interruption and a predictable pull, I do not discount its utility in party play. I'm just not sure if such features are better than Blitz's guaranteed extra damage.

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 04:19

#25

Abathur

Blitz also interrupts 100%,

Blitz also interrupts 100%, even Towers like Howlizers. It deals at T3 - 28 about 3000 (with dmg vh 4000) damage and if normal effective (undead for ex) it does still 2000 - 2500... It has a massive longer range, can shot trough barriers and it is actually the highest single target damage, oneshots a trojan and due its micro splash damage even does more damage to groups by hitting with about 30% of the bullets 2 mobs insead of one.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 18:48

#26

Lomase

1. Pepperbox has a guaranteed

1. Pepperbox has a guaranteed interruption if two shots hit beginning the pull sequence against anything, even duke. Needleshot only guarantees interruption at a chance. After a certain distance from the monster, interruption becomes independable.
2. Needle's damage is largely determined by the size and frames of the monster. Pepperbox's damage is also determined by the monster's size and frames but due to pull it is a LOT less affected by it. Notice the frames and sizes for fiends and wolvers are not large. (with the exception of alpha wolvers and trojans.)
3. Pepperbox will guarentee a kill against devilites and small wolvers in T3, when shot within a range that Blitz needle is effective against those monsters.
4. Needle shots range is only useful against large enemies. Against normal enemies the it is ineffective to use Needle at even half of that range.
5. Blitz needle does have highest potential damage in one attack against mobs which are effected normally and mobs which it is effective against ... when calculated per shot. However whether you can constantly and safely pull off that damage is another question. Within a battle situation the distance between you and the monster will not always be both optimal and safe. (especially in T3)

@ Artic- Dont underestimate the pull. It pretty much guarentees point blanc shots for around half your charge.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 21:06

#27

Zealousd

"Although I have heard from

"Although I have heard from someone that the Needle can 'juggle'. Not sure how that works."

It stunlocks soft-bodied enemies like Gremlins and Wolvers. It basically sends them into the air and knocks them down. There is no better weapon in the game for killing a gremlin mender. A charged Blitz Needle shot will break through the shield of a T3 mender and still have enough shots left to kill it.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 21:37

#28

Dirty-Harry

@Lomase

@Lomase You can out DPS a swordsman against 1 target, the biggest benefit that the DA and Levi have is that they are extremely good against crowds since they cover a large area to hit with 1 attack, and don't talk to me about treating a gun like a sword since many people use that tactic of going under cover and charging up (ex. DA and Levi).

Shield bouncing does not allow you complete time to charge up without you moving away from the target, where unless you kite (which is most likely the case, unless you're a novice) to keep the mob busy, giving more chances you get interrupted/hit and waste more time doing no damage, or play it safe and go to cover.
*Although I do use that Shivermist+charge attack often with the Pepperbox myself, it works very nicely but I still don't think it's any better than using it with a DA.

Also I'm a pure gunslinger (unless at FSC, where my guild requires me to change my playstyle) so I do understand how to use them.

@Zealousd
The Needle stunlock isn't always guaranteed and the starting stun isn't guaranteed like the Pepperbox's charge attack (there are a few cases where it does not stun), and the Callahan does stunlock 100% of the time with each shot as well. And if you miss your shots against a wolver you will end up getting hit for it because of how long the attack animation takes.
Also there are certain mobs that cannot be interrupted.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 21:29

#29

Zealousd

I was just pointing out what

I was just pointing out what was meant by "juggle".

Really though, if you want a weapon to stunlock with, DBB is where it's at.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 00:03

#30

Abathur

The Needle charge does 100%

The Needle charge does 100% stunlock, Callahan (Magnus) in some areas doesnt. Even T3 wolvers are most of the time immun to the stunlock, unless their near to die.

Also there is no reason for Pepperbox over Blitz...
What you are writing about the hitbox of units -> Blitz Needle, Antigua and Magnus are the only guns that deal a little splash damage at maximum range. This means, where the Blitz charges ends, it has a larger hitbox there. If you hit a Devilite for example, first he gets canceled in any action, does try to jump away, gets hit by other bullets, gets massive bonus damage (T28 at me 255 per bullet) and after touching only a couble of these, the devi is down. Also with this long range and spread, you can oneshot multiple devis, what I dont think does Pepperbox too so good. But well - i just don't have one. So how about a duo party Lomase? :3

And i know how the pull works, i guess it's pretty interesting - Callahan charge does the same, but noone knows it ... XD

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 07:01

#31

Lomase

@ Dirty-HarryActually shield

double post.

... I have no life and am seriously seriously bored.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 06:12

#32

Lomase

@ Dirty-Harry Actually shield

@ Dirty-Harry
Actually shield bouncing does give you sufficient time to complete your charge, dependent on how which monster and specifically how fast they move. I also assumed that when I said shield bounce you would keep moving after you bounce, since standing still and charging with any weapon is a big no no.
However, with the Pepperbox since its optimal range for damage is at point blanc, for SOME monsters I will shield right into a charge, go towards the monster, trigger their attack animation and then attack on the counter. I usually do this with Jellies, lichens, kats, torjans, any turrets and Chromaltisks. This is also dependent on what other mobs are around obviously.
Even in a duke zombie room though I still find time to charge, however I may also find it easier to charge because I have ctr ultra on my Pepperbox.

Also When did the DA and Levi come in to this =.=, i understand that DA and Levi is better for crowds and crowd control. Pepperbox will out-damage DA or Levi if there are not many monsters DA or Levi can hit. DA in my opinion though has always been utilized because of its crown control abilities. the damage that it does is around average unless there's many monsters on the map.

In a group battle situation with lots of mobs, you wouldn't use Pepperbox as a front line type of weapon. What I do is let the bombers/swordies take the aggro then drag out the healers and kill them. Kill the puppies. I would then proceed to single out the units chasing the guy with aggro and killing them 1 by 1.
It's a bit different if i had my Shivermist or Staggerstorm. I would get as many as possible into my status bomb radius, taking the aggro then proceed to kill puppies and then healers.

I'm also pretty sure the Callihan does not stun 100% of the time as I have one. Although Callihan's stun is only dependable on smaller mobs. On larger wolves it is there but not dependable.

I have also never met an enemy that I can not interrupt with a Pepperbox can you detail which enemies cannot be interrupted.

@ Abathur. Yea I actually know about Callihan charge. It pulls as much as one of Pepperbox's charge shots. I'm not sure why they did that as I'm not sure if it does the Callihan any good.

Also with the area of effect for guns I thought how it works is area of effect will apply if the bullet hits a target OR if its gets to the end of its range. I'm also pretty sure that all guns have area of effect. I'm certain that Pepperbox has a little area of effect too as when I use it along with Graviton a stack load of numbers pop up.

And yes I would like to go for a duo party. I haven't seen many people who can use the autogun series, it will be a refreshing change of pace. I'll send you some mail.

@ Zeal What I do with menders is:
1. Position them at maximum around 3/4 of Pepperbox's max range and let off a charge.
2. If it hits in around the middle of the charge shot, it will drag the mender towards you. Shield will activate while hes flying towards you. Usually there will be enough shots in your charge to break the shield before charge ends. Mender will be on the ground with no shield.
3. Finish with 1 or 2 normal bursts.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 04:14

#33

Lomase

Due to the recent patch I

Due to the recent patch I feel the need to Necro this thread =)

So people can understand what the recent changes mean to the Pepperbox

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 11:24

#34

Fathergiliam

Due to the recent patch ive

Due to the recent patch ive dropped it completely. The only thing it had going for it was the pull effect imo, as it caused it to do more damage as the enemy got pulled in. Now, chances are, most of your shots will miss.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:14

#35

Reiyu

wow, i don't know what you

wow, i don't know what you guys have been smoking, but volcanic pepperbox smokes jelly king and roarmulus in a single charge attack.

Search

Volcanic Pepperbox- Unused gun