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What are your thoughts on these 2 weapon loadouts...

7 replies [Last post]
Wed, 04/06/2011 - 18:50
viscrom
Legacy Username

I'm a non-beta player and only going by what I've read on the forums, wiki, and a few PMs in game. What would you choose between these 2 setups, or if they are non-optimal what would you pick instead?

My goals would be to be able to solo any map that's solo'able quickly and still be solid in a party. I feel like player skill won't be a problem with practice so I don't mind if it's hard to manage at first. I just want to be able to rip through maps alone to gain money without dying.

#1:
Dread Venom Striker, Blitz Needle, Volcanic Pepperbox, Radiant Sun Shards
[lack of consistent poison debuff might be a problem? Not sure. Does the venom striker proc a lot?]

#2:
Dread Venom Striker, Blitz Needle, Venom Veiler, Radiant Sun Shards
[poison debuffs from the veiler but if I'm reapplying this all the time then I doubt I'll be able to use my other weapons to their fullest extent. Also would be a bit redundant with the dread venom striker if it happens to proc a lot]

If it matters I planned to use the Vog Cub / Owl shield setup, no idea on trinkets... probably something to fill in the gaps of my shortcomings but since I have no real experience with the game (just started T2) I don't know how it will fan out.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 20:32
#1
Shoebox's picture
Shoebox
Well, what you've said there

Well, what you've said there is very vague. Any weapon, with enough skill, will get you through any level.

What you need to choose, is a role. From you weapon choice it seems you want to be a close-mid range DPS attacker.
So I'll go from that and try to offer some advice.

First off, if you want to solo effectively, memorize this chart. Then memorize every monster in each category so you know which ones are what and then, through playing the game, where they appear.

Now I'll give you some insight on your weapon choices:

The Dread Venom Striker is a great sword, it deals good damage, it's normal typed so when it poisons an enemy (which is fairly likely), it gets an outright boost in damage, too. It's a good DPS weapon, poison in an excellent status and it has good synergy with normal damage for it's defense debuff. It's charge attack, when done right, can also hit quite a large number of monsters at once. I've hit 5 jellies once ad managed to get to lumbers with it another time.

The Blitz Needle is another good weapon. Since it is effective against two of the best dodgers in the game, Wolvers and Devilites, it is more than worth your time acquiring since a few blasts from close range will take them out now problem. It's low damage per shot means it's not a weapon you can use against everything, since the penalty for attacking monsters that are strongly resistant to your attacks will bring your damage down quite a bit.

The Volcanic Pepperbox, this is the Dread Venom Striker of Guns, really. I wouldn't recommend it in a set if you were going to use both of the above weapons. In fact, unless you're using all guns (or aren't using a Dread Venom Striker) there's not really a reason to have this gun at all. That's not to say it's a bad weapon, but if you have close range weapons at your disposal you don't need to keep away monsters, just let them come to you and wipe them out with a Dread Venom Striker charge attack.

Radiant Sun Shards is an excellent bomb. It's Elemental/Piercing Type Damage makes it quite deadly to a wide variety of monsters, but it's little brother, Ionized Salt Bomb is a little better in this regard, because it's hybrid pure damage (normal/piercing) means it is more well rounded, plus it deals the shock status. The Sun Shards are an excellent Trojan Killer though, they also hurt Undead a little more than the Salt Bomb, too.

Venom Veiler requires an entirely different style of play to use effectively, since monsters that come out of that poison cloud will lose their poison status fairly quickly, you need to keep crowds controlled while under constant damage to use effectively. Something that is hard to do without Crowd Control specific weapons.

I would recommend these weapons for you:

  1. Dread Venom Striker: Good effect, good synergy with status, high damage.
  2. Gran Faust: Good effect, good damage typing (normal/shadow), very high damage and knockback. Also unique in the sense it is the only weapon to inflict Curse.
  3. Magma Driver: Inflicts fire (flat DPS), bullets rare get dodged, moderate speed. Also helps you break some puzzles.
  4. Callahan/Blitz Needle: Either one will help you deal with the manic dodging of Wolvers and Devilites. But the Callahan has a really long range charge attack that will allow you land a cheap hit on most monsters. It also stuns, so you can close the distance and wail on them with your Dread Venom Striker or Gran Faust.

But you can make up your own mind by looking at the wiki some more.

As for armour, the choice shouldn't be to cover weakness, but accentuate strengths. Once you get good enough, damage will be a thing of the past. Being defensive won't hurt, but always keep in mind how an armour helps you before you worry about how it might hurt you.
Some penalties are just worth it.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 21:36
#2
viscrom
Legacy Username
Thanks for the detailed

Thanks for the detailed response. Hmm, so the idea is to stick to 1 type of attack plan rather than cover it all?

I figured the Venom Striker was a good pick for straight up DPS destruction but I also noticed it's actually not easy to use this while avoid being hit (especially when solo). If you try to jump into a few mobs with this, you'll just end up getting crushed (with the cutter version obviously since I just hit T2).

A good example would be the zombies in the graveyard or those gremlin-like guys who come in big groups; anything basically. If I try to rush at them swords blazing they just poop all over me. I'm pretty comfy being able to take 1 guy out at a time by watching their attacks but when 2-5 guys are grouped up they are all attacking at such a short interval that I'm bound to get it.

The idea I was going for was to have something I can use to rip things to shreds or alternatively if things are a bit too nasty I can kite them around while still dealing good damage. Of course the damage wouldn't be as great as the sword but it wouldn't be painfully slow at least. That's why I figured maybe the pepperbox would allow me to "aoe kite" hard groups of mobs (especially in the maps where you need to pay 3 energy to access). Would the blitz needle let me still do this if need be?

If I built a second sword what would be the benefit of that? I mean, I can only attack with 1 sword at a time. What are some situations where the DVS would be a bad sword and the GF would be a good sword? Is it worth giving up the ionized salt bomb for the faust if I went with a venom striker, blitz needle/callahan, magma driver build?

Also if you really had to choose only 1 between the blitz needle and callahan which one is a better pick? The callahan seems to have more synergy with the venom striker and the magma driver can deal with medium range aoe kiting (right?), so I guess the blitz needle is kind of unnecessary if the callahan can also deal with the dog/devil packs equally as well?

Shame I already bought the 2 star poison bomb but I guess it's a cheap mistake in the grand scheme of things. Your thought process on why it's bad seems solid. I was thinking it would be a problem to manage it with my other weapon choices but heard so many good things about it that I bought it anyways.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:01
#3
Shoebox's picture
Shoebox
You'll actually be doing

You'll actually be doing both, covering all of your possible encounters with countermeasures as well as having highly desirable effects for any situation regardless.

The Striker series does not interrupt by default, the Gran Faust (and other heavy swords) does on every hit, so it basically covers your one issue with the Dread Venom Striker.
It is also more effective on Jellies and Gremlins. 1/3rd of all monsters you can encounter.
It can curse as well, which means the enemy will take damage whenever they attack. For some monsters this can mean they will kill themselves fairly quickly slashing away at nothing while you kite them with the Magma Driver.
But because it is Normal/Shadow and not Pure Shadow, it is effective on just about everything, to an extent.
It can self-curse on a charge attack, but you'll hardly use the charge attack anyway, since it isn't that good.
Curse can be remedied by a Blue Pill anyway, so it's not a big deal.

You can't use the Volcanic Pepperbox to kite, that is it's main issue. It fires 6 rounds fairly quickly, but you have to be standing still for it to shoot. You can't rotate while it's firing either. This makes it particular hard to use. It's also much less desirable considering you have a Dread Venom Striker planned, which is the sword equivalent of the Volcanic Pepperbox anyway.

The Callahan is a good long range gun, its Stun effect is handy, because iirc, it stops monsters dodging.
The downside is the charge attack can sometimes stun you, but stun is one of the least bothersome statuses you'll encounter.
But the Blitz Needle, from the right range, is undodgeable. And since it deals piercing, the monsters that dodge the most will get hit hard.
The Blitz Needle, in that regard, would be for dealing exclusively with those monsters from a relatively safe distance, whereas the Callahan does similar damage and can inflict stun, making it a bit more versatile.

It's your call though.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:19
#4
viscrom
Legacy Username
Hmm I didn't know heavy

Hmm I didn't know heavy swords interrupted. Does that mean it will knock them down, so the general idea would be to smack them with a hard hitting weapon to knock them down and then DPS their face off with the venom striker? Is there a downside to using just the faust and then replace the venom striker with something else because after reading that it seems like the venom striker is kind of garbage. Is the DPS of the faust that much worse where I'll want to be switching to the venom striker once they are knocked down?

You sold me on the Callahan. :D

Edit:
I noticed the seal sword requires 25 Jelly Jam tokens. How can I determine which token will drop from a specific gate? I don't think I've seen this type yet, but I could be wrong.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:24
#5
Shoebox's picture
Shoebox
The Dread Venom Striker is a

The Dread Venom Striker is a good weapon, but it's not a weapon you can rush in and attack with. It only interrupts on the 3rd and 5th hit, if I remember right. This means you need to block/dodge an attack directed at you to use it properly. But once you do you it becomes a pretty invaluable weapon.

Poison support is also a highly desirable thing to have in Tier 3, since Poison stops monsters healing. If you're going to solo you will need either the Dread Venom Striker or a Venom Veiler.
The Dread Venom's Charge Attack also interrupts all monsters in it's cone of attack and deals about 10 hits of almost double damage to them. It's extremely deadly, but it is a bit more involved to use than the Gran Faust.

If you want something a bit heavier than the Dread Venom, you might want to try a 3-hit sword, like the Leviathan Blade or Cold Iron Vanquisher.
But not having Poison will hurt you a fair bit running solo.

You could probably roll with the Gran Faust, Magma Driver and Callahan alone, but the poison support and flat normal damage of the Dread Venom Striker make it pretty versatile.
I don't know many people who didn't have a Vile Striker or Dread Venom in the preview.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 22:32
#6
viscrom
Legacy Username
Ok seems reasonable. I'll

Ok seems reasonable. I'll roll with the venom striker, faust, magma driver, and callahan. Thanks for clearing things up. I already have the cutter and the seal sword seems pretty hard to get. Now the fun part, trying to find the recipes for the 2 star magma driver and callahan.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 08:42
#7
viscrom
Legacy Username
So after buying the firo gun

So after buying the firo gun it's very nice. I noticed I have some serious issues in T2 though against certain types of mobs. Massive flame throwers and the turrets that shoot homing missiles. Everything else gets pretty crushed by the firo gun or cutter.

So I was wondering where exactly would the Callahan fit in here if the firo gun is such a good way of killing most things. Would it be worth it to get the shadow variant of the firo gun rather than Callahan or does the Callahan do more DPS than the shadow gun?. Will the extra range of the Callahan allow me to kill turrets without getting hit?

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