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Physical/Elemental defense not nearly as useful as it once was?

20 replies [Last post]
Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:36
Foxhound3857
Legacy Username

Ever since coming back and running Jelly King/Tier 3, my Vog Cub armor has performed far below my expectations. I didn't know that they changed the cubes in royal palace to do piercing damage, but what gives? Almost every enemy I fight now either inflicts piercing or shadow damage, neither of which my armor helps against, and very few do physical/elemental damage anymore, which is what I'm strong against.

What the...did Physical/Elemental defense really fall this far below what it used to be? Is my Vog Cub armor even viable outside of FSC now? Seriously, I'm taking 9 bars of damage per hit on average in Tier 3...

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:44
#1
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
No, its that Jellies and

No, its that Jellies and Beasts now deal Piercing damage (I am sure you've noticed the spikes on the jellies), and Devilites now deal Shadow damage. Your Vog is performing below expectations because you're getting hit with half normal, which it can block, and half piercing, which blasts right through it.

Damage dealt
Normal: everything except Gun Puppies (for the most part)
Elemental: Constructs (pure elemental from Gun Guppies), status effect Kats, Gremlin Scorchers
Shadow: Undead (maybe pure from Howlitzers?) and Fiends
Piercing: Beasts and Slimes (maybe pure from Polyps?)

~Gwen

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:41
#2
Providence
Legacy Username
T1 enemies do normal damage

T1 enemies do normal damage almost exclusively.

At T2, where Jelly King is, monsters can deal split damage (normal/piercing, etc)

At T3, monsters can do pure elemental, shadow or piercing damage. Or split damage.

You're just wearing armor that's not suited for the kinds of monsters you like to fight.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:45
#3
Foxhound3857
Legacy Username
Not even really the monsters

Not even really the monsters I like to fight. I like to do FSC, which is where my armor shines, but I'm not skilled enough to solo it yet. I'm still learning that place.

I don't know which gates have enemies that deal more physical/elemental and less piercing/shadow.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:52
#4
Providence
Legacy Username
http://wiki.spiralknights.com

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Damage

You need to fight more gremlins and constructs. Pick gremlin or construct strata.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:58
#5
Foxhound3857
Legacy Username
How do I know which gates

How do I know which gates have lots of those specific enemies? I don't really know how the gates work all that much, apart from seeing where bosses are.

Also, I know Vog Cub is almost necessary for FSC for the elemental defense/fire resistance, but can you get away in FSC without shadow defense, or is it absolutely mandatory too?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:04
#6
Providence
Legacy Username
Nothing is mandatory as long

Nothing is mandatory as long as you adjust your strategies to deal with it. Just practice more and you'll figure out how to use nearly any equipment, but there ARE some pieces of equipment that just make life easier in certain areas.

When you go to a gate you can see the 6 stratum themes at the gate console. When you go to pick T1, T2 or T3, you'll be shown the kinds of floors in that tier. The floors BEFORE Basil are all one theme, and the floors AFTER Basil are a different theme. Read the floor descriptions to get an idea of what kinds of things will be in that floor. For example: Deconstruction levels are full of gremlins.

You just have to learn what you like to play in. Every once in a while you should change things up though, and try different play styles with different equipment. It's more fun to try new things.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 22:49
#7
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
Vog isn't necessary for FSC,

Vog isn't necessary for FSC, when I'm using swords I actually go through there most of the time in Skolver or Deadshot. As a bomber I run Mad Bomber, which has negative fire resist. It all depends on how good you are at getting out of the way and your playstyle.

~Gwen

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 00:45
#8
Abathur's picture
Abathur
Vog Cub and Owlite nubs :O

Vog Cub and Owlite nubs :O Yea i said it. Looks like not only me, no, also the producer are sick of seeing all the people useing the same equip T_T There will come more Shadow and Pierce damage, they said. They wanna nerf Ele so you must craft new things, they sell CE.

In my eyes a pure Ele def ist just laughtable. I use Pierce, Ele and a shadow shield normally. Its the best allround option. I often see Vog Cubs getting hitted once by spikes or jellies or howlizer heads and they are immediately at 50% health :D kinda funny xD

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 00:58
#9
Dirt
Legacy Username
It was only a matter of time

It was only a matter of time before they had to make other sets of gear more useful. I'd say they've done great. Down with the Vog. >:3

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 06:23
#10
Mohandar's picture
Mohandar
T3 is more about not taking

T3 is more about not taking direct hits than beefing up armor. That's why I've been able to ignore piercing for so long, because most of the time it's easy to dodge piercing monster attacks. I agree with Dirt, this makes other sets more likely to be used. That said, now you need a set of armor for each strata or you will take terrible, terrible damage when you get hit. =P

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 12:23
#11
Foxhound3857
Legacy Username
Actually, what I'm thinking

Actually, what I'm thinking of doing is selling off my Vog Cub armor and replacing it with a mix of armor that gives me defense against all damage types. I was thinking Divine Veil + Skolver Coat; that would give me defense against all 4 damage types + resistance to everything and I'd still be a competent swordsman.

Thoughts?

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 12:36
#12
Foxhound3857
Legacy Username
Or, what if I kept my Vog

Or, what if I kept my Vog coat and swapped out my Vog cap for a Skolver cap. Would that make me more versatile? Or at least better geared for most stratums?

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 13:15
#13
OverDingle
Legacy Username
Don't sell off your

Don't sell off your armor.

The trick, if you can't consistently avoid damage (true of the majority of players - no shame here) is to have at least one armor set per damage type. Get a piercing set (Skolver's fair game) and a shadow set (whatever takes your fancy) and check the gate map at each terminal and subtown. Predict what's going to be a problem in the strata and change your gear accordingly.

If you exclusively wear a set that has more than two defenses, you're halving the damage reduction you're going to get against either of the typed defenses, as well as your status resistances, and in tier 3 especially you want to maximise your defenses. It's especially bad to gear up against multiple defenses if you're going into a monster family strata - if you know, for example, that most of the monsters are going to be constructs, then splitting your armor into vog and skolver is a bad idea. Keep pure sets.

If you want to make a piercing set quickly, just remake ash tail (you already have recipes), then get to work on a 4* shadow set, then upgrade your ash tail to skolver - you'll still have something useable until you do.

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 13:39
#14
Foxhound3857
Legacy Username
I'd rather only keep one set

I'd rather only keep one set so I don't have to pick and choose every time I go down a gate. I'd rather rely on my skill to get me through a tier then my defenses.

I think I'm just gonna get a Skolver cap to maximize my sword damage and be done with it.

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 13:43
#15
OverDingle
Legacy Username
We'll have a new feature

We'll have a new feature called Loadouts soon - they'll let you save a number of different armor/weapon sets so you can make a full switch with a single button. Once you get them sorted out, swapping gear for each strata will be really, really simple.

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 13:47
#16
Foxhound3857
Legacy Username
I just really don't want to

I just really don't want to expend my CE. I'd rather keep building it so I can earn maybe 40-50k in a single month. Then maybe I'll look at new gear.

For now, just gonna sell my Vog cap and replace it with Skolver, and I should be well-rounded then (+ my sword damage will be at maximum).

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 14:27
#17
Pupu
Legacy Username
Lol

Vog Cub has always been a terrible armor choice compared to other options.

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 15:08
#18
Algol-Sixty's picture
Algol-Sixty
If you exclusively wear a set

If you exclusively wear a set that has more than two defenses, you're halving the damage reduction you're going to get against either of the typed defenses, as well as your status resistances, and in tier 3 especially you want to maximise your defenses. It's especially bad to gear up against multiple defenses if you're going into a monster family strata - if you know, for example, that most of the monsters are going to be constructs, then splitting your armor into vog and skolver is a bad idea. Keep pure sets.

Having pure sets works ok, but not great, for monster family strata, but status type strata can easily deal out any type of damage, sometimes every type of damage in a single floor. A fire themed statum can have fire greavers/devilites, alpha fire wolvers, fire retrodes, etc. all on the same floor and combinations in the same room.

Even on monster family statra, it can be bad. I made the mistake of using just normal+shadow armor on one of the undead stata with the the candlestick levels. Sure enough, there were also wolvers/jellies on some of those levels, gun puppies on others.

*NOTHING* will turn you into a brick wall in this game. Having something like a divine veil + skolver means that when you mess up and get hit, you are likely to survive to the next hearts, rather than being crippled and having to play super cautions, avoiding options that you could normally use.

OK, I confess that the divine veil + skolver set that I have has UVs to boost the Normal defense quite a bit, and that helps, but I think I'd still find that set to be more functional than the pure sets that I can put together for a large percentage of stata. Sure, the JK run is almost pure normal/piercing, and some of the fiend levels are almost pure normal/shadow, and the FSC is lots of fire with the rest being mostly normal/shadow, but those are exceptions. Granted, people play those exception stata a lot, but I've gotten pretty bored with those.

*shrug*

To each their own.

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 16:14
#19
Volebamus's picture
Volebamus
Pupu Vog Cub has always been
    Pupu
    Vog Cub has always been a terrible armor choice compared to other options.

I've got to disagree strongly on this. It and Skolver are one of the few armors that have such a big boost towards your weapons, swords specifically.

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 22:12
#20
Twiddle's picture
Twiddle
What the...did

What the...did Physical/Elemental defense really fall this far below what it used to be? Is my Vog Cub armor even viable outside of FSC now? Seriously, I'm taking 9 bars of damage per hit on average in Tier 3...

Physical/elemental defense are no longer OP. This is a good thing as it gives players a reason to equip something other than owlite/vog cub gear.

Also, this is old news. This change happened about a month ago, when they retooled beast, devilite, and slime damage.

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