exactly what the title says. which one comes out on top? I'm in need of a good piercing gun. Note, i have quite a large latency, so my aim is shocking. (e.g. affects bulletspeeds, callahan bullets on my screen are about the speed of a firey alchemer of some sort, just a little bit slower. I under stand from what i see from others and comments, that the callahan bullets should be next to instant.)
So which should I go for?
+1 to BiggestLoser: both have drastically different strengths and weaknesses, and if the delay you're experiencing is that bad you won't know for sure how well your system will deal with either one until you do some testing. I'd recommend trying to pick the 3*s up for cheap from the AH to test and craft up the one you like best from there. I'll say this as well: most people seem to favor the BN for the charge attack (can't say from personal experience--I have a callahan, no BN), while with the callahan you're usually running and gunning, almost never use charge attack. I would recommend taking that into consideration when you're testing them out.
While a Blitz needle is by far the greatest gun in the Vanaduke fight, a Callahan beats its @66 anywhere else.
Try hitting Tier 3 wolvers with only a blitz needle.
The Callahan can target Beasts very easily, can target Fiends easily, so if your going just for general Beasts and Fiends, then totally go with the callahan.
If your trying to figure out trojans, then a blitz. But I think a callahan will be awesome in PvP as well, because of the targeting system.
Blitz needle not so much. Callahan>Blitz needle. Hope this helped! Read Timanths thread and perhaps put a question in there. Think it already mentioned this though. ^^
Regards,
~Rangerwill~
You can easily hit a T3 wolver with Blitz, the drawback is that it involves a [crap] ton of waiting, unlike the Callahan which can just shoot any time you want.
It all comes down to preference. I have 3 different piercing or piercing-like guns. Right now I favor the Blitz Needle more because of the way it plays...
Callahan
+ Fairly mobile
+ Can lock down 1-2 enemies at a time if you can keep shooting at them
+ Enemies do not dodge on reaction to the bullet (but they do when the bullet hits/disspates)
+ Nice "cowboy movie" sound effects while shooting
- Lower damage than the alternative
- Charge attack is garbage
Callahan playstyle
* IMO better to shoot twice, move out of the way while reloading as needed, rather than shoot&shield or shoot&wait.
* Almost never used the charge attack because of its loooooong recovery time and self-knockback.
* I'd try to isolate 1 enemy, especially if they are Devilites/Wolvers, keep shooting them until dead or they break out of knockdown lockdown.
* Get Attack Speed Increase in UV's and armors. Gun damage is good after ASI.
Blitz Needle
+ One charge, one kill against many enemies
+ Very high damage output
+ Looks and feels like a Tommy Gun
- Can't move while shooting, putting yourself in danger
- Normal attack is garbage
Blitz playstyle
* Almost never use the normal attack except to finish off an enemy that was hit by a charge attack that didn't fully connect.
* I'd charge the gun behind cover, such as a wall, gravestone or box, and come out to fire. (Picture this: gangster + tommy gun + brick wall.)
* For Wolvers, I'd charge while walking around, waiting for them to bark or teleport, or do an attack that won't hit me.
* CTR UV is the best.
Argent Peacemaker
+ Six-shot clip
+ Equalizer for Firestorm Citadel
+ Easy to shoot through thin energy walls
+ Usual swordie sidearm (other than Valiance or Polaris)
+ Nice "cowboy movie" sound effects while shooting
- Split type Piercing and Elemental
- Six-shot clip, split damage type and weak damage per hit mean that it is bad against beasts and gremlins
- Charge attack... don't use it.
Sentenza
+ Six-shot clip
+ A possible good gun in PVP
+ Easy to shoot through thin energy walls
+ Nice "cowboy movie" sound effects while shooting, and bullets look like blue lasers
- Split type Shadow and Elemental
- It deals "super effective" damage against beasts and gremlins, but those are monster types many people wouldn't use guns on.
- Charge attack... don't use it.
AP/Sentenza playstyle
* Shoot only 5 bullets at a time
* Stay mobile
* Almost never used the charge attack because of its loooooong animation time.
* CTR is bad, ASI is decent.
If you want to be ok from begin - use Callahan.
If you want to be perfect in the end - use Blitz.
Blitz is way better if you use it wisely. It deals so much more damage and it's easy possible to hit wolvers or devilites with it.
Wolvers for example do evade the Callahan shots too, allways, like any other gun too, but same as Blitz Needle, the first bullet is fast enough to hit it. At Callahan, the first is the only one, so it's a potent weapon against them.
That your bullets travel not so fast is normal. Its to prevent lag. Everyone's bullets travel at same speed. For example at your computer i'm shooting faster and at mine you do.
Never use the Antigua Line - they're a waste D: One NOT CHARGE of the Blitz Needle (a half clip - 1/2) deals same damage as a full Antigua Line's one.
I had Callahan - I swiched to Blitz -> stronger better in party.
question for blitz needle users: is it hard to hit T3 devilites with the gun? and do you use the charge or do you use the normal shots?
It's not hard to hit the devilites imo, it's hard to charge shoot them AND avoid their ranged attack :[ Ow
Those are some really insightful details about piercing guns. Would be great to add such things to the Gunslinger Guide:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Gunslinger_Guide
The Gunslinger guide feels more like an objective unbiased newspaper article right now.
It doesn't state the "best" guns nor does it point out the weaknesses of the guns being discussed.
Now if the owners would like the Gunslinger article changed so that it's like the Bombing Guide, which judges bad bombs with extreme prejudice, then maybe, they can use my observations minus the cowboy and gangster references. :D
I don't like this guide. It's self specific and too straight. Most of it is theory and not practice.
Yesterday i went with Blitz Needle instead of Callahan against Wolver and Devilites. I have to say its way better than Callahan. I did one charge against the wolver group and i've hitten them hardly, they often teleport into your attack and die immediately. One charge and Callahan cant come up again.
Against the Devilites it's also awesome. They cant attack while you hit them with charge and they die pretty fast. One charge - 3 death.
Blitz is much harder to handle, but if you can it's awesome :D Personally fav weapon in Duos, in Solo i dunno wich to take.
so against devilites, you just charge ur blitz then shoot at them in the general direction that they are? do you need to aim in a certain way so their auto dodge won't get out of your cone?
Get Callahan, splash is passable (you can hit 2-3 gremlins groupped together no problem) against single targets use the autotargetting as it helps massively, stun is awesome, knocking wolvers/gremlins to the ground even more so. With 2x gun med dmg trinkets i've been even knocking down Slags in T2.
Why do you list bugs abuse (speaking of force fields here) as features? Split damage on antigua lines sucks, it isn't something good. On both splits you hit 2 types of monsters for just ok damage and on the rest, lets not even talk about it. Piercing/elemental and piercing/shadow really are terrible, the antigua line would be useful outside of FSC/PvP if it had normal instead of piercing in its split damage, currently they both suck seriously.
The Callahan is good for sniping healers and important units easly and safety. Anywhere else, the Blitz Needle is better. Look at yourself what you need. I don't think one of them is "better" at all, they are really different guns. You better should test them both, but I warn you, Blitz Needs much more expirience to use it good. Everyone can chargeshot at something but there are many factors that also count. Also at Callahan -> against wolver and devilitest use autoaim but don't against healers.
...I agree it's a bug, but it's still a "Pro" of the weapon regardless. Blitz/Callahan can't penetrate force walls as good as AP/Sentenza.
And I do hide behind cover to charge my blitz... it's safe AND awesome at the same time. It so happens that Devilish Drudgery levels (and Clockwork Tunnels-type levels as well) have a lot of boxes to hide behind...
Callahan:
+ FAST AS HELL BULLETS
+ Awesome damage
+ Snipes down wolvers and other soft-bodied monsters
+ Nothing can dodge its awesomeness
- Cannot move while firing
- Slow rounds
- Charge sucks
Blitz Needle:
+ Vanaduke's going down.
+ Charge rocks
- Makes dodging monsters dodge, and kick your butt while your still firing the last round of bullets.
- ROOTS YOU TO PLACE
- Cannot turn
IMO, Callahan is much, much better.
Sol XII
Despite how many people say Callahan is better, I strongly disagree. Almost everyone here, with the exception of Abathur, is too focused on the negative aspects of the Blitz Needle. Yes, you can't move while you fire it. But Callahan isn't fast or "fairly mobile" either. If you're carrying all guns and want to do sniping, then fine. But really, there's no argument for the DPS of the Blitz Needle vs. the DPS of the Callahan. You'll want to mainly be using the charge attack of the Blitz Needle; the damage output is unbelievable. And, of course, any problems you have with Vanaduke will just disappear. As this video can attest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovQZlZRfDoo
I have to say i'm really starting to like the strike needle. it's great for straight up killing those annoying alpha wolvers. the mega magnus just keeps them alive for a bit too long for my taste.
and i find strike needle's normal attack is surprisingly effective against greavers/bats (way better than the mega magnus).
Most of the time, i prefer the needle. but there are a few moments where the magnus will be more useful than the strike (when you really really need the mobility)
Callahan:
+ FAST AS HELL BULLETS: Yeah, didn't do my research this time. . .
+ Awesome damage: I meant per bullet, not all Blitz Needle bullets are going to hit, it's more likely that one of my bullets can hit than all of charge bullets to.
+ Snipes down wolvers and other soft-bodied monsters: Try and guess. Is a Lumber a soft-bodied monster?
+ Nothing can dodge its awesomeness: It's also very unlikely to hit two wolvers in the same charge and give them reasonable damage, but Callahan's explosion can nail two wolvers easier than Blitzy.
- Cannot move while firing
- Slow rounds
- Charge sucks: You seemed to make many comments on Blitz Needle's Charge. Is it worth slowing yourself down and spending a little extra on that UV?
Blitz Needle:
+ Vanaduke's going down.: I meant what I said and I said what I meant. Dr. Seuss
+ Charge rocks: That brings up the Charge question.
- Makes dodging monsters dodge, and kick your butt while your still firing the last round of bullets.: I bet while you're slaughtering that wolver, its cousin will start to avenge its relative.
- ROOTS YOU TO PLACE: I meant with no charge. But Callahan does that too I suppose.
- Cannot turn: Ahh. One of the many wishes of a gunslinger. A turning Autogun.
edit: -And it forces dodge reaction. Yup.
And I quote my from my other post: Blitz Needle does pwn and kill Wolvers, Gremlins and Devilites,
if it hits them. Wolvers could bite your ___ before you even press the right mouse button, and Devilites can dodge too, AND snipes with furniture, and while you're killing something, its cousin hits you with an ax.
What does happen if you miss? Monsters get a golden opportunity to take a chunk out of your life bar. I think the Callahan is a gun for more cautious gunners who don't want to die, the Blitz Needle? Risk-taking gunslingers that always try to catch that flying piece of furniture, or trying to give the Wolvers the last piece cake in their pockets while it's still in there.
Time to write my opinion. From what I see, we're comparing Callahan's basic attack and Blitz Needle's charge attack.
Callahan(Basic attack focus):
+ Fast bullets
+ Fine damage
+ Stuns beasts and fiends with normal attack shots
+ Way safer, compared to Blitz Needle
+ Can hit a beast/fiend before it jumps away
- Cannot do anything while shooting
- Stun is ineffective against Vanaduke, because his animation bugs and he'll hit without the animation. Oh god.
- The charge attack is very poor.
Can be improved with:
+ ASI(It does something good, but I don't know what)
+ DMG(Increases damage)
Blitz Needle(Charge attack focus):
+ Fast bullets
+ Charge attack has AMAZING damage
+ Charge attack has a low chance to disable a beast/fiend
+ Great against Vanaduke, due to high damage output
+ Has some of Argent Peacemaker's ability to pierce(Shoot through force walls, hit longer than the end of the animation)
- Can't do anything while shooting(a bit longer than Callahan)
- Basic attack is poor damage wise
- Teleporting wolvers and item throwing devilites CAN be a problem(Not necessarily a problem, can be avoided by shooting off the charge as the wolver is about to teleport, which results in insta-death to the wolver.)
Can be improved with:
+ ASI(Shortens the time you're rooted while reloading after a charge attack)
+ CTR(Increases the damage output)
+ DMG(Greatly increases the damage output)
Imo I think Blitz Needle is better.
i'm surprised by how many of you are in love with the blitz needle's charge attack.
i don't think it's bad or anything, but you have to fire off a normal volley and then charge it before you can use it.
that makes it pretty slow and unsafe compared to single volleys + shield.
blitz needle has been my primary gun for months and i only use the charge when i'm goofing around.
it has sick range on its normal volley too.
blitz does a lot more damage than callahan but callahan expresses more control over small targets.
both are good piercing guns that earn their spot.
the only reason i'm using my blitz more than my callahan is the uv i happened to get on the blitz.
@ Raunwynn
you can charge without firing.
1) bring up shield and hold it
2) while holding the shield, press and hold fire button
3) let go of shield without letting go of fire button
4) you are now charging
this just negated your whole argument about slow and unsafe compared to single volleys + shield.
Addendum: if you drop your shield and your weapon isn't charging, keep holding attack and quickly tap your shield again and you'll start charging.
@ Somenubcake
hey, i didn't know you could do that, that's cool!
i wouldn't say it negates my whole argument though; you are still vulnerable while charging and during release much longer than you would be with the shorter, standard bursts.
and, you are taking the time to set up position for it; you can't see an opportunity and respond to it with a charged shot as quickly as you can with a standard burst.
there is also some skill involved in hitting things with an autogun.
i've been playing with them since the day i found out about this game and i still miss.
when you miss with your charged shot, you stand there forever.
i don't mean to come across as argumentative, though.
in my experience, as someone who loves autoguns and has always had one on his belt, the time, effort and risk involved in setting up a charged shot has rarely been worth it; partly because the standard shots work so well.
some people have been using the "charged blitz kills a zombie with one shot!" example.
i don't really use blitz to kill zombies, but i love it on trojans and i think that target is a good example of what i'm talking about.
on a trojan i stand still with my shield up to get him to charge and then walk around behind him and unload both clips into his back.
that kills him easily in two goes but might be a little harder to do with a charged shot because your walk speed is slower; you might eat the trojan's attack by accident or not charge up fast enough to get it off.
i'm assuming that a charged attack finishes a trojan in one hit of course.
if it doesn't, hitting him with 2 charged attacks seems like a slightly more difficult way of doing the same job that the standard burst does.
i wouldn't even consider charging blitz against greavers, devilites or wolvers in t3.
a standard burst kills greavers, so a charge there would simply be overkill.
against devilites, a standard burst's greater range comes into play and also gives you more mobility and more shield time to avoid the office supplies of hell.
against wolvers, i fire once, to get them to move, and then i shield, to bash away the teleports, move and fire at the barking or attacking ones; i don't think it would be safe to try charging during that.
the only time i ever use a charged blitz or pepperbox blast is against gremlins and gremlin healers when i don't have umbra or biohazard on my belt.
i took the time to write this out, not just to argue, but to find out if there is something i don't understand about charged blitz needle bursts.
it seems like they're very good on vanaduke but have little value anywhere else in the game.
i've already been shown a much better way to charge, so hopefully i'll learn some more cool stuff!
@nicoya-kitty
omg you just made my day with that awesome fact :D thanks!!!
@raunwynn
Ok, i see where the problem is. when i use the blitz, i aim for at least 1 kill with 1 charge. that is a totally different philosophy from using a callahan (consistant piercing damage over time, while dancing around your foes). and also most of the enemies weak to piercing are the annoying ones (alpha wolvers, devilites, trojans), and you'll want to get them off the field as soon as possible. with that in mind, you'll want to use the charge exclusively.
yea the charge is longer but it's only about 2x as long than a normal volley without reload. usually that's not a problem for me even at T3, as you have to learn at what distance will you be able to fire off a charge without getting hit. and most of the time you'll kill whatever you are aiming for anyways, so there's really not much of a problem.
with trojans, if you use a callahan, you'll end up keeping him on the field charging at you and your teammates for much much longer than if you use a blitz needle. it takes about 2 blitz charges to kill him, so you'll only need him to attack 2 times. while with a callahan, you'll need him to attack many more times, which means he has a higher chance of hurting you and your teammates.
I agree with your take against greavers 100%. the normal shots are great against them (interrupts and eats them alive).
T3 wolvers and devilites are easily dispatched with the blitz charge (i pretty much never use the normal volleys against them). and yea it does take quite a bit of practice to consistantly hit them.
hey, i just did a t3 run and fooled around with the charged blitz.
thanks for the tips, Somenubcake and Nicoya-Kitty!
the shield/charge is a neat little thing to practice.
i still didn't need the charge for anything, though.
it felt like playing with my food.
I don't think there is a mob that can take two standard bursts from a blitz needle, especially when i only use it on fiends, beasts and gremlins.
i have a ctr-high autogun in my inventory, but i don't want to go through the trouble of making a new blitz out of it only to find out that i still don't use the charge.
ok, disregard my previous post.
wolvers don't dodge or teleport away from the blitz spray.
it's freaking disgusting!
i just assumed that they would and i would be nailed in recovery.
that combined with shield charging has turned me into a blitz charger for liiiiiife.
i just walked through a level 27 arena like it was nothing.
packs of fire alphas were so easy.
@ raunwynn
i'm glad that you see our way lol
I see your guys way of thinking, but I'm sticking up to my post and staying with Callahan. Hope it doesn't offend anyone. ;)
of course not. everyone has their own preferred piercing gun
but back on topic:
the way i see it is that both have dramatically different play style. and you really have to test out both in order to see which one fits your play style.
I'm gonna do a vid using the Blitz against wolver and devilites. I'm just looking for a programm to convert etc.
I noticed that wolvers at T2 are more annoying than T3. T3 wolvers are actually easier than T2 with Blitz!
T1: Blitz
T2: Calla
T3: Blitz :o
lol, that's an odd discovery, abathur.
i noticed that too abathur. it's probably the timing and dodging pattern of those pesky T2 wolvers
Personally.. Both. I tend to use them on different monster types.
Callahan: Wolvers, Devilites, Wings, gremlins (If stun locking a bomber so a swordy can grab it), lisks.
Blitz: Trojan, Greavers, Boss fights, lisks(Goes either way, but it's faster with a Blitz and they're slow), and inanimate things like.. large amounts of blocks,minerals, boxes.. stuff like that.
I now made a vid of Blitz Needle rap*** Wolvers ^^ Just need some programm to make one vid out of these 3 D:
I will post it here if I'm done :D
now i feel the need to go out and buy a ASI max autogun............
or a CTR v.high 1 lol
Finally my Video is done :D
Here a good (i hope so) demonstration about the BLITZ NEEDLE and the BIOHAZARD. I'm pretty happy with my work :D First upload of a game I made <3 ^^
- Abathur :3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krJtNczQ5zU&feature=channel_video_title
@Abathur Giving that a thumbs-up so hard just for the music!
If you're looking a piercing weapon for wolvers or devlites, Blitz isn't the best choice. They both can dodge and rooting yourself isn't safe against these kinds of fast moving enemies. Dark Briar Barrage or a piercing sword are good choices. Outside of FSC, Blitz is actually best against gremlins. On charged shots, it stunlocks them. Really nice especially when dealing with menders. I haven't really messed with Callahan but it seems like a pretty niche weapon.
@zealousd: the blitz is pretty awesome against wolvers and devilites. u just have to be careful.
comparing my dark thorn blade and strike needle, i have to say the strike needle is safer than the thorn
You talking T3?
I can't even seem to hit T3 wolvers with Blitz. They just go all teleport-no-jutsu.
#39 whats the ASI/CTR on the bio? also i like the barking sword and the music xD
Zealousd ... why are you writing that comment right under my
"HOW-TO-KILL-T3-WOLVER-WITH-BLITZ-NEEDLE"-VIDEO!?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krJtNczQ5zU&feature=channel_video_title
here you go - watch it, then just cry T__T
@ No-Thanks: ASI is very high from armor and CTR is medium from lv10 and medium as uv (very high).
If i was at 23 terminal waiting for a last filler in a vana run, and I have 2 people who wants to come.
One with Callahan, the other with Blitz needle, who do you think I'll choose ;) .
I have a habit when I meet wolvers (either helps or kills me). I usually move to corner first then release blitz charge.
50/50 you're going to hit those wolver because you can't really cover all 90 degree with a single blitz charge.
Probably, I could predict better where they teleport better by knowing where they teleports from.
@zealousd
yea T3. they are easier to hit than T2 wolvers. watch abathur's video
test both 3* versions