U can also buy ce with ur crowns dude....i agree three rings is a money making business but u have to face the facts

PS. wats ur ingame name

Well here's the problem.
If CE is NOT required then it becomes a thing of "I'll just earn it because it's not hard to do so" and not spend money, and then spiral knights will never get money.

I mean I agree, mist on a higher tier person, such as requiring 1200 per craft, makes it near impossible if you're not marketing like a boss. I mean you need 4 pieces of gear to make yourself full of one tier (Hat, armor, shield, weapon) and that totals, alone 4800 energy; however, it would make crafting that much more abusable if I could store, say, 400 most. I could make alts, and have all of them obtain 8 crafts a piece.

Then if elevators were 5 a piece, much like the event. People wouldn't have to worry. I could go down to jelly king twice on 1 mist tank, make back up about 10k ce with 20 mist left over to get down to basil basically and check recipes, and that's not including if i have 20 CE.
If that existed people would go "Welp. CE doesn't seem that hard to get now." and not many people would buy Ce.'

If there was an NPC mist tanker it, whether it cost crowns or CE, it'd have to be fair.

I mean if a mist tank costed 6k, and energy is 5600. I'm spending 110ish ce for 100 ce. Stupid.
But, if it's 3kcr(50CE for 100Mist), then Ragecrafting would be amazing.
Use 300 ce to buy 600 mist, double crafting.
It would be way to abusable when it comes to crafting, and sure you can say "well that's not that bad" and it isn't, if only a few people were doing it, but there would be so many people doing it they'd actually have to lower the UV rate to balance this out. This would make it unfair to people who are simply crafting an item to simply use it.
This is also true if you lower crafting prices. If you lower that, then people will rage craft just twice as hard with double the profits, and then the only people who can make money are those who basically spend all of their mist on crafting, then get off for the day. Sounds fun, right?

Mist tank Drop rates I wouldn't mind, and getting back like 20 ce on a t1 boss, 30-40 ce on a T2 boss, and like 50-80 ce on a t3 boss would be kind of amazing. Then again people can also argue that would make it too easy, but then again you could just have the boss drop a BUNCH of heat and money and that might compensate. Bosses are often hard, and the only reward you get in the reward of going back there 3-12 more times to get your reward seems kind of silly. Perhaps Bosses could drop a respectable amount of gold and heat, perhaps almost an arena or 2 worth of heat and maybe 500, 1000, 3000 crowns depending on the tier.

The true problem I see with CE is that it's mainly near impossible to make back all your money in a run. Unless you're doing a boss, bank on basil, or, as I stated before, do every danger room and room of arena for maximum profit you're not going to be making profit. Plus, when you do that, your profits are scraps so you're only making so much every run.

Then again, if you weren't making scraps, this game would get too easy and therefore people would quit too fast, even though they do already once they give up on t3-4.

And a cash costume to make mist faster? Not to be rude, but then that REALLY encourages pay to play. Pay to play longer, yeah sure sounds like premium account in here.

All I can say is, I agree with you on how CE is really bad for the working man, and I especially aim this towards newer players who can't even do boss runs to make their profit, and it truly requires you to either be REALLY good at the market or bank on UV's, or you're going to grind for hours and hours and hours just to make a poor amount of ce, and that's if you're boss running. I think the main problem with this is that there isn't enough stuff to kill in the dungeons, and not enough rewards through killing things. I mean, look at deconstruction zone and Treasure vault. The crowns you make there and the heat you make there are so pathetic they're just wasting 560-570 of your crowns (10ce). Most dungeons only carry about arena 3's worth of monsters, total, and that's just not enough crowns to really get someone by. The only place people can actually make money is boss runs, and even then you're only making your money back until you get enough to sell a token item. Yet for those who are lower tier, like 2, doing jelly king or Rom isn't super easy, and what's worse is that this game encourages change, but the only thing I see changing is the path to a boss. Doing an elevator that doesn't lead to a boss is just a waste of money and time, aside from the fun had along the way. Fun times coming out of the expense of your wallet.

Yet if you make things drop 2x more money, then it's the same thing as making things cost less CE. That is, unless CE inflates with the fact that you can obtain more crowns, in which case nothing's changed. It just became instead of 5600 for 100ce it's 12000 for 100ce.

Something like this really can't be changed without breaking the balance of many things. It's the fundamental and core of spiral knights. Doing anything to it causes a ripple that will effect the whole game, because everything in this game runs on it.

You make CE cost less, everything is too easy
You make CE cost more, it's pay to play (Which is good for the creators)
You make CE easier to obtain, no one pays
You make crowns easier to obtain, CE goes up
You make Mist tanks appear, Crafting becomes too easy because double crafting power
You make Mist tanks drop from bosses, it's either too much or not enough to matter. Plus this would make going down an elevator without a boss even MORE useless, which I would find offensive.
You make crafting less, we still have a problem earning CE in the first place so this would just mainly support those who can already do good [stuff].
You make elevators cheaper, and then either massive inflation in CE or CE becomes too easily obtainable.

The problem with this game is Micro transactions usually make the games money, and those micro transactions aren't too bad. Like buying costumes or maybe even non-combat pets for this game would do that, but this game makes money off of EVERYTHING YOU DO. If you want to so much as step outside you need to pay money, and even though that's all true, changing that would be too devastating to what the game is already.

Well, over the time I had to mull over the whole energy thing since I had exams, I realised some stuff. Most of the energy threads people make are about ways of either getting ce or lowering costs, that could severely lower the reliance on ce etc etc...

Really, no suitable fix can be found, because people will always find it too troublesome.

Here's an example: When I started, CE cr prices were around 5K. That to me was like: "shiiiit, gonna take me ages to get up to there. But hey, gotta do what ya gotta do."

When it rose to 7K, I was then like "Ok, this is just getting ridiculous..."

That was just me. On the other hand, someone who's been playing when CE cr prices were at 3K ish, will be thinking that 5K prices are 'ridiculous'.

Likewise players who stared at 7K will thing 5K is ridiculously cheap, bt wth?

OOO can't satisfy everyone. Be grateful that they give us Mist tanks that can hold 100 mist, instead of giving us max 10 or so every 5 hours so we buy ce from raging about how slow it is. Sure you can't get to 3* without using ce, but that's the point. They raised the prices because they realised its a bit too easy 4 people.

Buying ce with cash is for people who want a jumpstart, or something else, and we buy that with cr. This way, it slows us all down, so we don't complete the game then go: '...now what?' in like 2 days or so. It's a bonus for OOO if you get fed up with the slow rate of your progress and buy ce with money for a boost, because they wanna make money somehow.

If however, people still want a better option, you can't make it too good for yourself. Like the buyable mist tank idea. If you want to buy it, it should be either on Basil, or a Bazzar guy, who's stock changes each day, and then it should be a rare find anyway. Even if the cost is 3K (I'd prefer the 5K, just so it isn't dirt cheap) you should have a limit to how many can be bought per period. Perhaps max 1 per week? With he capacity to only store 1-2 of them? Just so people don't masscraft.

totally nice guy ^

I was just trying to be objective and not totally critical.