Spiral Knights - Tier 3 Lockdown needs work.

Tier 3 Lockdown needs work.

14 replies [Last post]

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 04:57

LtChicken

Legacy Username

Right now T3 Lockdown is a joke. The winning team can be easily determined by the amount of Divine Avengers\Gran Fausts\Polaris's the other team has.

A few simple and easy solutions?

Halve sword damage in T3 lockdown. Some may say this will make GF and DA underpowered but it will NOT if the damage reduction applies to all swords. GF and DA will still hit the hardest, they just wont two shot people.

Reduce the amount of damage strikers do with their guns. Recons are supposed to be the gunners if I'm not mistaken.

Maybe some sort of direct nerf to polaris in PvP but im not so sure about that. All i saw was that today two polaris users spawn camped my team and half of us couldnt even get out due to the knockback and shock effect. And oh yeah, both of these were strikers with full skolver and a gran faust\barbarous thorn blade, so anyone that did manage to get through the massive polaris storm was cut down in short order.

The only people that will complain about these changes are the ones running around in lockdown right now taking complete advantage of this obviously imbalanced game. These people would prefer for the game to be less about skill and balance and more about them being at the top of the leaderboards.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 05:01

RubyEclipse

Legacy Username

Divine Avengers / Gran Fausts

Divine Avengers / Gran Fausts / Polaris are all very easy to dodge if you go Striker. Many skilled players could use a Flourish wep and take down just about anyone wielding these three weps easily.

Some strategies are frustrating, agreed, but there are always ways around it. I don't use Polaris and heavily go with DA / Flourish, but the key factor here is your own skill and how well you work with your teammates.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 05:09

LtChicken

Legacy Username

Halving sword damage would

Halving sword damage would still let these skilled players dance around GF\DA users and get the kill, but would also balance the game for people that dont have the option of going striker (bombers) and people that dont have full 5 star gear yet.

Though I think there should be another tier for people with complete 5 star gear. Youde get fewer 50-900 games that way, but kinda besides the point here.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 05:09

marles

Legacy Username

Taking sword damage down that

Taking sword damage down that much will completely imbalance the game. If sword damage is reduced that much, guns will do roughly the same damage (depending on gun) and then instead of DA and GF everywhere you would just have games of 12 people shooting everywhere. The problem with the DA and GF that most people would have is that a lot of people using them have full vog or skolver and then possibly the accompanying sword trinkets. So, as a striker, many people are running around with asi max and sword damage max. Obviously this is somewhat of an issue but I don't think nerfing sword damage is the answer. I think an additional tier should be added for those using trinkets in their loadout. As is a player with all 4* equipment can be paired up against somebody in full 5* equipment and various extremely good trinkets. That is too much variation in ability for one tier.

Honestly, I think either a new tier should be opened for trinket use or they should discontinue trinket effects in lockdown. I think if people started having to choose between swinging at max asi or packing in max damage the gameplay would change quite a bit. Not to mention I've seen a few people running around lockdown with 2 +5 health trinkets AND ancient plate sets. This gives them double the health of somebody without that armor set or trinkets.

These are my thoughts anyways. Either way, if ANY changes are made to the game, even if they seem minor, will greatly change the meta game and how the game is generally played.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 05:15

LtChicken

Legacy Username

Being a striker negates the

Being a striker negates the range advantage a gun user has. A sword will ALWAYS be better up close than a gun, always. Unless of course youre fighting someone with a polaris, where even the non explosive rounds have knockback, they fire quickly and theres three of them.

Polaris might need a nerf as well with this change but thats it, the rest of the guns are underpowered compared to polaris. Even the mighty argent peacemaker only does about 2 blocks of damage to me a hit and im in mad bomber gear.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 05:17

RubyEclipse

Legacy Username

So don't fight sword users

So don't fight sword users with a gun in close combat. There are lots of ways you can use either Recon or the Striker class yourself to mitigate the issues you're pointing out.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 05:31

marles

Legacy Username

I've seen plenty of people do

I've seen plenty of people do VERY well with alchemer series and other guns, not just polaris. Argent Peacemaker doesn't do so well damage wise but is a good tool to use against bombers or people charging because of the number of shots in the clip. I agree that every person in lockdown having a polaris is annoying, but again, I don't really think a nerf is the answer.

What the answer is though is to keep playing and trying new things until you see what works well against them. Once you start doing well against it and others catch on then everybody will be crying that you're OP and you need a nerf. Then again they will find something that works and so on and so on. The game will evolve.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 05:58

LtChicken

Legacy Username

Heres the thing you two... I

Heres the thing you two... I dont use guns. Dont have a single worthwhile one. Im a bomber. Use full mad bomber gear and use nitronome and shivermist in PvP. Working on voltaic.

Dont you dare complain about shivermist being overpowered, Ive seen someone in skolver gear charge right through my mist, kill me in a few hits and go on to fight my friends without being frozen. Is it just a coincidence that the best pvp gear for damage (that all of the overpowered people have) is also a direct counter to the only viable crowd control?

heres the shocker though. I also use a DA! But why would I want to have swords nerfed when I myself use one? The answer is when I freeze someone in shivermist, I try to kill them with a charge attack from the DA. When I manage to pull this off (harder than it sounds believe it or not) it is a guaranteed kill. Everyone Ive hit with DAs charge attack has died in one hit. Despite the fact that I dont use any trinkets at all and that I dont have skolver gear and no UV on my DA. Almost everyone dies in two normal hits as well if im lucky enough to catch them.

This amount of damage is what is overpowered. There is no adapting to this. No way for someone with my playstyle and gear to overcome what is currently THE overpowered thing in lockdown. Despite my nearly full 5 star gear I spend 70% of my time in T3 lockdown watching the respawn timer tick down.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 06:15

john1111

Legacy Username

no, of course your weapon of

no, of course your weapon of choice isn't overpowered. everything else is!

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 06:16

Xylka-Mkii

wait a minute....

If you get Shadow and elemental resists on your armor you'll be fine :P
Loadouts were made so that we could switch our gear accordingly to match the battle at hand. Also don't say you don't have this either because..
1. Not many people do anyway
2. You can craft it if you work towards it
If Lockdown is so hard then practice and take a break in between. Do a Jelly King run to warm up with your gear then try LD. For our guild it helps us a lot.
Also If the other team is spamming DA/GF/anything that can 2 shot you. Then get a DA/GF/Barbarous/Flourish and two shot them.

Yes its annoying and because of fact 1 that they can kill easily with GFs and I think they should get a power reduction a little, its not THAT hard to work around it. I use full Skolver and barbarous thorn blade and I survive ok against them.
If anything just slightly nerf the GF
If you cant get elemental and shadow resistance then theres a good chance you'll get owned.
And YES there ARE strategies around them, it just takes some skill. Like I said maybe practice a few games or do a run BEFORE diving in and facing near insta-death.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 06:24

#10

Dream-Harmonics

I agree that T3 Lockdown

I agree that T3 Lockdown needs work, and seeing as it hasn't even been out very long, I'm sure we can expect some improvement in the he following weeks.

To be fair swords are some-what OP I'll agree and the halved sword damage I'm on the fence about, swords are CQC weapons they have to have high damage to make up for the lack of range (and speed for DA/GF/Troika Series), so if they take any more than 2 shots to kill an enemy your target will have probably boosted out of range, cloaked or shielded. In addition to that; if they have a gun or bomb they could easily kite you, forcing you to use a gun and thus basically not so much forcing but making PvP favour a certain play style/weapon type, that's my basic view, I know a lot of people could easily adapt to the changes and make me eat my words though.

So about that Barbarous Thorn Blade, I find it quite annoying when wielded by a Striker Class because they can easily boost right into you and get 3 quick attacks and if you don't have Skolver/Azure it's a guaranteed death on your part because you have no resistance against pierce.

In addition to those points the one big thing I can't stand about PvP is server lag. A good whole second of it, I couldn't stand it in blast Network. To some that one second of lag will sound like nothing but when you're getting attacked from a good 2 swords distance away when you're clearly out of range, it's clear that the server can't keep up.

So I'll end with this. Thousands of people play Spiral Knights, a good portion of those people buy CE to start with and with all the money-making schemes like the Rose Regalia and the Blast Network Battle Pack I'm surprised that Three Rings haven't released more content/updates/fixes, whatever. With all that cash they've raked in (I understand a fair amount has to go towards paying the staff and I can imagine a lot of it is being put towards some sort of development for the game) and the fact that even teamed up with Steam for heaven's sake and still no fix for the server lag? They've had since Blast Network to sort it out and still, nothing.

Damn it, I miss the preview!

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 06:48

#11

marles

Legacy Username

Another thing people always

Another thing people always have to think about is that some people are better than others at this game and all other games (even though everybody just imagines themselves to be the best). Think of other games you play online, there is always somebody there ready to beat you without even breaking a sweat, the same applies here. Without some sort of real ranking and matching system you are bound to be put up against lots of people that are simply much better than you regardless of equipment. Just something for everybody to think about. Skill isn't OP.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 08:36

#12

Raxa

Legacy Username

DA/GF are not over powered

I've personally used a striker + levi to easily take these users down, and I'm running 4* Magic set armor. Just know the timing on their attacks and counter. Users with Flourish/Snarble will easily trash the set.

Gunners with Polaris, or hell, even Valiance will easily keep them at range.

Most of the DA/GF users have no ability to do anything but the one-two swings. Learn to counter that and you can shut down half of the Lockdown teams with no problem.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 10:47

#13

Sirusswan

If they make armor defense

Current sword damage would be fine if....

If they make armor defense actually do anything(most of the time it makes no real difference what armor you use) and buff guardian then things may get better.

Otherwise I will just play tier 1 or 2 pvp for a more balanced experience.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:08

#14

LtChicken

Legacy Username

Well john1111 and xykla

Well john1111 and xykla obviously didnt read my whole post. I said I use a DA john! I have elemental resistance xykla! And still want them nerfed, because id rather have fun than two shot or get two shotted.

there is nothing in a jelly run that can prepare you for a striker dashing up to you with a gran faust and annihilating you =P or worse a barbarous thorn blade.

I agree with you newonemax, tier 1 and tier 2 is a much more balanced experience. Im working on my three star set as we speak.

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Tier 3 Lockdown needs work.