Spiral Knights - Handgun Magazine Module

Handgun Magazine Module

16 replies [Last post]

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 05:38

Bluescreenofdeath

Handgun Magazine Module | Increased handgun magazine size +2 | 4*
Elite Handgun Magazine Module | Increased handgun magazine size +3 | 5*

I think just a straight shot number increase by X shots would work the best. Percentage based increase would favor the 6 shot weapons and really not do very much for the lower shot weapons which are the ones that really need it.

+50% (with rounding)
1 -> 2
2 -> 3
3 -> 5
6 -> 9

+75% (with rounding)
1 -> 2
2 -> 4
3 -> 5
6 -> 12

I think that + X # of shots would be more fair overall.

+2
1 -> 3
2 -> 4
3 -> 5
6 -> 8

+3
1 -> 4
2 -> 5
3 -> 6
6 -> 9

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:04

Oakgear

Numbers

Oh so many confusing numbers.
And I'm in Acc Geometry

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 14:00

Orangeo

Isn't reload time directly

Isn't reload time directly based off of the speed required to shoot off all of your rounds? This could end up making your gun worse.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 19:01

Psychodestroyer

I don't think so...

This idea looks fine. I don't think reload time is based off anything than the gun's own speed. It takes the same time to reload an Autogun as it takes to reload a Magnus.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 20:18

Geregias

cool...

but i dont think it will be quite that simple. depending on how the code is set out this could be quite easy - as in they could roll it out with the next update - or quite challenging taking alot of code modification. im guessing somewhere in between, but sill quite achievable given time.

but i do think that a percentage based approach would be much better - flat ammo increases favour high power weapons too much, for instance comparing the magnus and antigua
both do approx. the same damage if all shots hit - thats roughly how its supposed to work. magnus will probably do a little more because it is a pure power gun - the most powerful gun in the game infact (per shot against preferred enemies)
now if we double the magnus' 2 shot clip to 4 and only increase the antigua's clip by 2 (1/3) then we can see immediately how unfair this approach would be - the magnus has essentially doubled its attack power whereas the antigua now only does 1 1/3 of its original attack power
(just to clarify i use both types of gun, callahan and peacemaker, so im not biased)

basically to be fair it must be a percentage based approach, probably around 50% and 75% as suggested before - remember its not just how many shots you can do its how much overall damage you can deal.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 05:16

Shidara

Hm...

On one end, I'd love to have more rounds for my Argent Peacemaker and Sentenza, but on the other end, Polaris and Supernova would become mobile carpet-bombers in the form of a handgun. (So freaking OP) There's also the overpowering issue that Geregias explained above. Not entirely sure of what to think of this.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 08:43

Bluescreenofdeath

*Geregias Thing is to do %

*Geregias
Thing is to do % based you would have to do a huge percentage to see any gains in the low capacity guns, which are the ones that need more rounds. To increase the percent enough to see a modest difference in the low capacity gun you would have to increase the percent sooo much that the high cap guns would be out of control (maybe get you wacked trying to dump a whole clip with autogun line).

Maybe an equation would be better.
n = original number of shots

Add n/2*1 shots to the magazine for the 4* (0.5 rounds up to 1)

Two shooters -> 2/2 * 1 = 1 -> 3 shots total
Three shooters -> 3/2 * 1 = 1.5 -> 5 shots total
Six shooters -> 6/2 * 1 = 3 -> 9 shots total

Add n/2*2 shots to the magazine for the 5* (0.5 rounds up to 1)

Two shooters -> 2/2 * 2 = 2 -> 4 shots total
Three shooters -> 3/2 * 2 = 3 -> 6 shots total
Six shooters -> 6/2 * 2 = 6 -> 12 shots total

That is a bit more balanced (though more confusing). This way low cap and high cap both get a decent increase without having to favor one or the other too much. I ignored 1 shooters, because there are not any 2* and up 1 shooters (that I know of), so it is unlikely that anybody would invest in a 4* or 5* trinket to buff a 1* weapon...

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 08:39

Bluescreenofdeath

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 08:50

Juances

idk

But...the argent peacemaker charge is basically you shooting all the bullets of the gun, the same goes for some other weaps. How would more rounds affect those attacks?.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 10:48

Bluescreenofdeath

The AP you can shot up to 6

The AP you can shot up to 6 shots before reload, but you can shoot 5 pause shoot 5 pause. It would just mean you could get off more shots before pausing to avoid reload. I think your thinking of the autogun line which does dumps 6 shots then dumps 6 shots then reloads. The above suggestion would just give you a more shots in each burst.

Thinking about it more, maybe it would be better to consider the autoguns as 2 shot guns because they can fire 2 bursts before reloading. That way the module would give the autoguns more bursts before reloading instead of giving them crazy overpowered bursts. Yeah, that would be best. Give just a straight + number of shots buff and consider the autogun line as 2 shot guns. I think that would be the most useful and fair to all of the guns. Maybe just a low number like +1 and +2. Ah, just realized that Juance was talking about the AP's charge attack. I think it might be best if a Magazine Module did not effect charge attacks, but rather the number of normal shots before reload so as not to overpower the Autogun line or AP.

4* Mag increase +1
One Shooters -> 2 shots total
Two Shooters -> 3 shots total (for autoguns this would be 3 bursts total)
Three Shooters -> 4 shots total
Six Shooters -> 7 shots total

5* Mag increase +2
One Shooters -> 3 shots total
Two Shooters -> 4 shots total (for autoguns this would be 4 bursts total)
Three Shooters -> 5 shots total
Six Shooters -> 8 shots total

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 13:05

#10

Quotefanboy

Unsure...

I'm unsure how balanced this would be, because you'd have the guns like the polaris shooting as many shots as the Antigua line, basically.

I'm not saying I don't like this, I actually do, but it seems that some guns would get a great benefit, whilst others don't seem very effected.

I guess something like this could only be ensured by testing, if OOO would allow that.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 14:22

#11

Bluescreenofdeath

Which guns are you saying

Which guns are you saying would get the biggest benefit out of this? The Polaris would go to 5 shot because it started out at 3 shot same for the Valiance. The Alchemers would double their shots from 2 to 4; this is a bigger increase then seen by the Polaris. The gun that benefits the least from this would be the AP, but it doesn't really need more shots anyway; so, if the AP was my only gun I probably would not be looking to use a trinket slot to increase its mag size. I would go with a DMG bonus trinket instead (even if the mag trinket increased my AP's shots to 20).

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 14:31

#12

Australiumfish

With Balancing tests, definately a +1

The idea of giving guns more ammo with a trinket sounds like a really good idea, and sounds definately worth the cost of making the trinket, and getting the slot to use it!

I use a master blaster and/or gigawatt pulsar (Im an all-rounder knight :D) and I can see the advantage, not just for my guns, but for all guns! I heard on one thread about how 2-shooters did very little dps, and an ammo boost may help that.

Also, 6-shooters and the autogun line clearly need some thought, namely in the charge attacks, but if it were me, I wouldnt let the trinkets change the charges, just the normal shots.

(Sorry for the wall of text there)

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:46

#13

Bluescreenofdeath

Yeah, that is what I was

Yeah, that is what I was saying about the charge attacks. I think it would probably be for the best if a Mag Module did not effect charge attacks.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 17:08

#14

Hova

Maybe, to balance it, I

Maybe, to balance it, I dunno.....make each round deal less than the one before it?

Like, the more you use the Gun the more it gets worn down and weaker...

I dunno, just a thought.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 20:33

#15

Bluescreenofdeath

Hmm... all for out-of-box

Hmm... all for out-of-box thinking, but not really feeling you Hova.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 21:07

#16

Quotefanboy

Reasoning.

Well I understand 2 to 4 is a 100% increase whilst 3 to 5 is only 75%, but you have to think of the gun at hand.
Shooting, in pvp, 5 or 7 shots from the Polaris spreading out in all directions, or hell even in pve. That would make everything unable to get near you.

The true balance of these guns is shown within their shots.
The AP is so weak per shot because it has so many, so this would make those guns which do massive damage, unbalanced.

Not to mention, if we're going to have a clip magazine increase, why not a slash increase for swords that would prolong the actual combo for swords? I mean, if we're upgrading guns, might as well swords right?

From Grenze:
The only way to truly make this balanced is that the clip increase is relative to the weapon. That way all guns become equally better. Not to mention it should only be a 5 star trinket, not a 4 star to upgrade to 5 star. There should only be 1 of this trinket, because an upgrade would make it too good.

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Handgun Magazine Module