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Rebalancing bombs

4 replies [Last post]
Sat, 09/24/2011 - 19:06
Quasirandom's picture
Quasirandom

There are eleven five star bombs in the game. Only three of them really have much of a point, though: ash of agni, shivermist buster, and voltaic tempest. In nearly any circumstance that you can think of, one of those three bombs will be the best five star bomb for the situation.

Many players don't carry any bombs at all, so it's hardly the case that bombs are wildly overpowered. Thus, the solution is to strengthen the other mobs, not to nerf the few that people use.

If you need crowd control, shivermist buster is by far the best, except against mobs that are immune to freeze. Venom veiler makes it so that mobs don't hurt as badly if they hit you. Stagger storm makes it so that mobs don't move as quickly. Shivermist buster completely locks them in place, which is far more effective.

If you need damage, then ash of agni wins easily. A lot of bombs do direct damage. Ash of agni makes it so that even if you miss a mob entirely and it wanders into range well after the bomb exploded, it still deals the damage even then. And it does about as much damage as a pure damage bomb. That makes a bomb that does damage only pretty much pointless.

Another problem with direct damage bombs is that they just don't do enough damage. You run around charging the bomb, unable to block that whole time, and then when you finally detonate the bomb, you only do about as much damage as if you had hit the mobs with a sword. Once. Now, being able to hit several mobs at once is nice. But you could also have done that with a sword, and blocked as needed. Or charged a sword, and sometimes the charged sword attack will do as much damage when you unleash it as a direct damage bomb that hits six or eight mobs. And it will focus the damage better, so that you kill something and thin the mobs, rather than just doing a little bit of damage to everything.

I would propose taking the non-condition bombs and greatly increasing their damage output. That means nitronome, big angry bomb, irontech destroyer, graviton vortex, electron vortex, and dark briar barrage. Somewhere around double the current damage should do it. Leave the blast bomb lines' knockback, the vortex lines' suction, and spine cone bomb line's knockdown the same as they are now, but just change the damage.

Meanwhile, among the condition bombs, the issue is that fire, freeze, and shock are much nastier conditions than stun or poison. To compensate for this, I'd propose having the venom veiler and stagger storm lines apply moderate or even strong conditions, rather than minor. Stunning a mob isn't as useful as freezing or shocking it, but if you stun it for a lot longer than you freeze or shock it, it would be more balanced.

Finally, there are some fans of the crystal bomb lines, but those only go up to four stars. Those can do massive damage to a single mob if you line it up right, so a five star version of them might be balanced right away. But there should be a five star version of them, so please create one.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 20:41
#1
Nicoya-Kitty's picture
Nicoya-Kitty
I dunno man. I think the

I dunno man. I think the vortex bombs could use a bit of a dps buff to make them more useful for solo play, but if you've got a nitro and a mad bomber set (or equivalent volcanic + trinkets) you can pretty much clean out any level without getting touched. Swap in the DBB for fiend or beast levels maybe.

Heck, I went bomber with a micronome (super blast bomb) while I was heating up some equipment and I honestly didn't feel underpowered, even going through S4 arenas.

It might be nice to have a split shadow/normal and elemental/normal DPS bomb though, kind of like how the brandish line branches out. Just don't give us a "Cautery Bomb".

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 21:11
#2
Hova's picture
Hova
Actually, I'm gonna say that

Actually, I'm gonna say that bombs are really well balanced as of now, except for a few. Damage Bombs are designed to deal quick, fairly reliable damage to several mobs at once, which they do, that's why their damage is fairly low because of the huge range that the 5* bombs get. I'll admit, the Status Bombs are really useful and powerful but that's mainly because their situational and have great crowd control which is a really useful thing.

You may say that a Nitronome is weak but, if you're gonna be a Bomber, you'd technically specialize in the performance enhancing Armors, that would increase the efficiency on your Bombs, but because of the great crowd control, that's why Status Bombs are widely used by non-Bombers, and why you wouldn't normally see someone who's a Swordsman with a Nitronome instead of a Shivermist Buster.
I mean, lets set up a scenario:
You're soloing and fighting the final wave of a T3 Arenas third round, and GREMLIN Menders spawn, now, if you're a Bomber, wouldn't you want to use that Nitronome to make the Menders do their jobs and mend as many as they can, but then using your speed of Bomb planting you're making it harder for them to heal all the enemies you've damaged. But if you're a Swordsman, you may not be able to plant Bombs fast enough to keep up with the healing, so wouldn't you rather use a Shivermist Buster to freeze them all then charge up your sword and unleash pain?

I'm no expert Bomber, and a true Bomber would probably have a better view on it, but this is just my view on the matter.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 00:18
#3
Antistone's picture
Antistone
I'm not a bomber, but a few

I'm not a bomber, but a few observations:

1. You make it sound like the main point of the poison status is to reduce monsters' damage. However, poison also reduces their defense, and causes any attempts to heal them to hurt them instead. I would say that poison's main purpose is not crowd control, but damage amplification. It should probably be compared to ash of agni, not shivermist. And I could totally see using it in the final wave of an arena (in fact, I used to save up poison vials specifically for that wave) except that I've found that experienced groups know where the menders spawn and just kill them right off.

2. I don't think freeze and stun really have the same purpose, either--except maybe in the special case of the shivermist. Attacking a frozen enemy removes the status and forfeits the thawing damage, so freeze is normally used on enemies you don't want to fight at the moment, while stun is most effective against enemies you're in the thick of. When I'm choosing which vials to carry, I prefer freeze to stun, but only because the stun duration is about 1/10 as long as freeze and the vial has huge knockback that prevents you from attacking the monsters afterwards. (Seriously: the one vial in the game with knockback is the only status where you would consistently WANT the monster close to you after you use it. That's just mean.)

3. You totally already have a Cautery Bomb, and it's even more stupid than the Cautery Sword. It's called the Rock Salt Bomb, and it deals 50% piercing damage, which means that even with its high damage bonus vs. slimes, it actually does less damage to slimes than to beasts, fiends, gremlins, OR undead. I just cannot fathom what they must have been thinking when they made that one.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 01:20
#4
Nicoya-Kitty's picture
Nicoya-Kitty
Actually I think the "Cautery

Actually I think the "Cautery Bomb" award has to go to the Ionized Salt Bomb, which rubs salt in the wound (o-hoho, you see what I did there) by doubling the charge time when you "upgrade" it from the Rock Salt Bomb. They should really rename it "the bomb of regret".

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