I intent to use two guns only, with no third weapon. I don't want a gun that prevents you from moving, I need to kite
What handgun should I use with a polaris?
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 11:47
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 12:28
#2
What is your plan?
You're not saying enough about what you want to do.
Solo? (forget solo if you plan to go guns only and not use a magnus)
Team-up with always the same partners?
What exactly is your plan in terms of strategy?
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 12:48
#3
TLDR version: I recommend Callahan.
Disaster's advice is disastrously backward.
I would suggest something either Shadow damage or Piercing damage, rather. Covering two of the non-normal types (as long as you don't use a split-type like the Antigua upgrades) gives you extra damage against 4 monster families and "only" about as much as a Normal type gun against the other two. The only reason to use a Normal gun if you're planning on using two guns at a time is if the Normal gun does something really valuable that your other options don't. (The same thing goes for swords and bombs.)
In particular, I would go with the Magnus-Callahan path (piercing) rather than Catalyser-Biohazard. If you're only using guns, the most problematic enemies might be Wolvers, Devilites, and all Gremlins because they can be hard to hit. They all have the most trouble dodging Magnus guns' projectiles, Wolvers are weak against piercing and Devilites are not resistant to it. Gremlins are neutral and Shadow would do more DPS, but that won't do much good if you can only land a hit once in a blue moon. Also, to my knowledge the Magnus is the only gun capable of reliably hitting them that still works for kiting. I just got me a Magnus and am loving how it handles Wolvers, despite the very low DPS; I can shoot a Wolver constantly and a single Mender can easily keep up with me, but it knocks Wolvers and Gremlins down. In a party of more than one, that can be really useful. The only problem I see is that it may be a little tricky to deal with paired Menders; you have to keep them both lying on the ground so they don't heal each other, but if you can get them close enough together it becomes trivial. Getting used to this strategy may be good in the long run anyway, since I read that they can revive each other in T3 so you need to kill them both at the same time. Also, keeping monsters off their feet seems to prevent them from doing anything. That probably applies to reviving, though I have not been to T3 yet so I do not know.
Speaking of Antigua upgrades, if I were to use one in a two-gun-and-no-other-weapon setup I would pair it with a mismatching other weapon. In your case that would be Sentenza with your Polaris, but I really don't know how Antigua guns work so take that with a grain of salt; for all I know they could be utterly horrible with a 2-gun-only setup.
edit: Mocha, what's wrong with Magnus for kiting?
Two-slot/one class may be viable for solo play unless I am totally mistaken about the Magnus, if a bit tricky to pull off.
I am assuming Szaf knows what s/he is doing, and in this unusual case there's one option that stands high above the rest since a party with only guns should have either a Magnus or some kind of Autogun any time dodgy opponents are likely, Szaf ruled out the Autogun family, and there's no particular problem I see with Magnus versus any other gun; damage types complement and Magnus is the easier to use against dodgy targets.
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 12:40
#4
-
bring a pierce gun. i always bring polaris and callahan for normal run, except for fsc, i bring polaris and blitz.
but if you don't like the moving restriction of callahan, bring Argent instead.
having elemental and pierce gun will basically good for everything.
polaris can manage pretty good with lumber, turret, zombie, kats, jelly, slime, robot.
callahan can manage gremlin (knocked down), devilite (attack cancelled), wolver (knocked down), butterfly, trojan, bats (attack cancelled).
so that's basically cover up every type of enemy that is annoying.
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 13:06
#5
Yes, +1.
I have a Magnus and don't mind the movement restriction much, though. I guess it can vary widely based on personal taste. For me at least, the pausing and knocking back a teeny bit does not feel much slower than reduced movement speed for a longer time with other guns, and backward is rarely a particularly bad direction to move a half-step when kiting.
Re: Argent Peacemaker, how viable is Sentenza for this very particular circumstance? I think pairing with an Elemental weapon is the most likely way to make Sentenza work; in terms of damage types, Sentenza is best against the monsters resistant to Elemental, while AP is best against Fiends and Beasts. Shadow/Pierce seems to me a better complement to Elemental than Elemental/Pierce, since then Gremlins would be a problem. Polaris is popular enough against Vanaduke, too, so no worries there...
I hope Szaf means two weapons at a time. I do that, but highly value having options to swap out. If I had to use two guns at a time, though, Callahan and Pulsar would be my first pick. Actually, I am going to go test my Kilowatt and Magnus together and see how I like it. My first impression of the Magnus is "OMG this is way more fun than I expected!" and was planning on using it with any elemental sword or status bomb. Thank you for making me think about this more, Szaf.
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 14:11
#6
Polaris
Blitz Needle
they are
Polaris
Blitz Needle
they are enough to use :)
(demos ingame :D)
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 15:11
#7
Those pesky Devilites
Polaris and Callahan, shadow weapons aren't needed as much as Elemental/Piercing, Polaris can handle Jellies quite nicely and Callahan snipes those Gremlins down.
Just. . . don't kill Devilites! Please!
Mon, 09/26/2011 - 06:53
#8
For end game, you will need a
For end game, you will need a Callahan which is the 5* upgrade of Magnus.
The reason for that is because T3's enemies dodge a lot. Wolvers don't even dodge in T3 anymore, they teleport which can be a pain in the butt. You will want to use Callahan to kill Devilites (sorry Sol-Xii), Wolvers (Alphas too) and Gremlins.
Mon, 09/26/2011 - 06:57
#9
blitz needle or
blitz needle or callahan.
they're both good.
if it wasn't for the stupid dodge on gremlins, umbra driver would be a good second as well, but no, gremlins dodge.
its a lot of fun to knock down a dodging mob with callahan over and over, not letting it dodge.
Mon, 09/26/2011 - 09:16
#10
@ Elitechamp
&
@
@ Elitechamp
&
@ Raunwynn
http://forums.spiralknights.com/de/node/25046#comment-153784 - very interesting thread ^^
Mon, 09/26/2011 - 09:35
#11
@ abathur
lol, i was just
@ abathur
lol, i was just posting over in that thread, a lot of the same stuff you said.
Tue, 09/27/2011 - 01:39
#12
If you're looking for a
If you're looking for a shadow gun, I'd go with the Biohazard.
Piercing, Callahan.
Of course, these are for general use and in certain instances like the Vanaduke fight, you might want to go with a Blitz Needle instead of the Callahan.
Tue, 09/27/2011 - 08:07
#13
Blitz is still nearly
Blitz is still nearly everywhere better than Callahan expect for T2 wolver D:
Wed, 09/28/2011 - 01:45
#14
...and mobility.
The opening post consists of a whopping two sentences, the second of which is, "I don't want a gun that prevents you from moving, I need to kite."
Does the Needle Shot or Toxic Needle path lose the rooting effect? If so, the wiki needs to be updated and I need to get myself a Needle Shot right away. I personally intend to go for a needly upgrade to my Autogun as well, but to recommend it for Szaf without a really good explanation is to ignore a very clearly specified condition.
For the same reason I would discount the Magnus as well, since it disrupts movement, but it doesn't prevent it altogether and a piercing gun is almost a hard requirement. I and other responders have gone over the reasons for favouring Pierce over Shadow, though I think the unique property of Magnus projectiles bears mentioning yet again. Monsters that can dodge all gun projectiles except those of the Magnus line are an important consideration for dedicated gunners. I am not confirming or denying that a wall of bullets also works, but Szaf took the Autogun off the table and Polaris can do something similar outside the arming distance anyway.
I also think the Sentenza might be worth looking into, especially considering the concern with movement. It definitely encourages holding back on attacks to reset the combo counter, which might be a good match, though the user might also end up having trouble keeping track of how many shots were fired in all that excitement. :) As a hater might say, "it's weak against Gremlins and Beasts, weaker against Slimes and Fiends, and weakest against Constructs and Undead- almost perfectly the opposite of what a gun should be." This priority list is also exactly opposite that of an Elemental weapon, though, which is precisely what a sidekick for an Elemental weapon should be.
Wed, 09/28/2011 - 06:11
#15
Well true - Magnus and Blitz
Well true - Magnus and Blitz Needle - the only real Piercing weapons - both stop you from moving. But the Antigua lines deal split damage and even very small amount ... well decide: dealing 80 dmg per hit or dealing 250 btw 2000 with a chrage of blitz :s I hardly recommend to buy all 3 at 3* and test them all.
Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:07
#16
I now made a vid of Blitz
I now made a vid of Blitz Needle rap*** Wolvers ^^ Just need some programm to make one vid out of these 3 D:
I will post it here if I'm done :D
Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:49
#17
Finally my Video is done
Finally my Video is done :D
Here a good (i hope so) demonstration about the BLITZ NEEDLE and the BIOHAZARD. I'm pretty happy with my work :D First upload of a game I made <3 ^^
- Abathur :3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krJtNczQ5zU&feature=channel_video_title
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 05:21
#18
nice video!
i didn't know the
nice video!
i didn't know the charge detonated other charges.
it still seems like a lot of work compared to spamming them down with umbra though.
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 06:08
#19
What? You said wolvers don't
What? You said wolvers don't dodge Blitz in T1 and T3, this video shows otherwise. When they idle doesn't count as obviously they don't dodge anything. Time to stop spreading false information, huh?
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 06:25
#20
In the end of the Vid there
In the end of the Vid there is a statement of the guns. It also is noted that the Blitz Needle Charge Stunlocks enemies, canceles their attacks aswell. You can oneshot gremlin mendors, gremlins are permanently falling back in the air, all towers (piercing is inefficient i know, just as info :P) stop attacking, etc.
@Paweu
Sure they dodge ... they dodge everything, even Callahan. But they get hit before they do. Now really tell me, does it seem to not work with Blitz Needle? Haven't I beat em all and even with the missing mobility, I've never lost any life against a wolver ...
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 06:38
#21
"Sure they dodge ... they
"Sure they dodge ... they dodge everything, even Callahan."
They do? Lets see...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAxkfjiJgGo
Nope, they don't.
And as to "I've never lost any life against a wolver ..." surely you have ASI: Maximum!
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 06:52
#22
What is going on in this
What is going on in this thread?
Unfortunately if you intend to gun to any resonable extent you almost aboslutely are going to have to use a third gun since guns require the damage bonuses gained from type advantages to kill things efficently, and the versatility of different kinds of guns is imperative to a good gunslinger. Needless to say if you must pick two, the Polaris and the Callahan are the best combination since the former can handle slimes relatively well thanks to the knockback and the latter knocks gremlins over and enables you to lock them down easily, so you CAN make do without a shadow gun if need be.
As for the piercing gun debate, the Callahan is considerably safer against wolvers and especially devilites due to the fact you can consistently attack them regardless of what animations they're in and the added stun enables you to stunlock enemies easily. You also don't need to constantly charge it to get any real mileage out of it which means you can attack an awful lot more. The Blitz is much harder to use due to the required positioning, waiting until an opening ideally when the enemy is either taunting or attacking and obviously requires you to be using the charge at every oppurtune moment to maximize your dps, but in exchange it's infinitely more powerful than the alternatives. If you must pick one you should test them both out (Or their 3* variants at least) to get a proper feel for which suits your playstyle more, although ideally you want both if you're a gunslinger since the blitz is extremely useful in Firestorm Citadel where as the Callahan is almost mandatory for gunning Devilites, and is arguably better against packs of wolvers.
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 07:09
#23
@Paweu
""Sure they dodge ... they dodge everything, even Callahan."
They do? Lets see...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAxkfjiJgGo
Nope, they don't."
What do you see in that video? Yea, all wolvers expect the hitten one are dodging. It depends on level if the wolver fall back with a shot or if they just get damage and burrow themselves after it. Its the same as for gremlins. In some levels they fall back by callahan's 1st and 2nd shot, in other levels they just fall back with the 2nd one. Wolvers will try to evade your Callahan shot, they get hit and will burrow or fallback. Thats the whole story.
"And as to "I've never lost any life against a wolver ..."
surely you have ASI: Maximum!"
very high - but this doesnt really matter with that kind of gun.
Echoez it totally right. Get Magnus, get Needle Shot, test them, pick your choice. For my part I do know hot to use the Blitz and I will allways prefer it over the Callahan if I just pick one of these two with me.
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 07:18
#24
i have to agree with
i have to agree with abathur.
having used calahan and blitz, there's no going back to calahan for me.
blitz is just plain faster at killing things.
calahan is only easier to use.
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 07:33
#25
Eh, if something dodges, you
Eh, if something dodges, you missed your shot. And guess what - since you shot in general direction of the pack and you didn't hit all of them you will trigger dodging/teleporting of those whom you missed. Thats basics of all guns. Maybe you should try posting a "need help with guns" thread in New Recruits if you don't know even that much?
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 07:46
#26
Aw men ... Paweu you seem to
Aw men ... Paweu you seem to know nothing about the mechanics, do you? Watch my vid again ... There where the first 3 wolvers come at the hidden key - the last 2 b4 they die are dodging and still get hit...
I guess I'm not the one of us that should make that thread in new recruits...
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 07:51
#27
Guess why you hit them? They
Guess why you hit them? They didn't really have any other place to dodge/teleport on this tight walk - have you thought that blitz is some kind of deus ex machina? Lol.
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 08:09
#28
I shot right, they teleport
I shot right, they teleport left, the nubers appear left ...
exactly at 2:05
they dodge but still get hit. even if there would be a huge place to fight, they get hit there where they were, not where they gonna be...
oh and i'm sorry, i don't know deus ex
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 08:26
#29
You hit them in sword range.
You hit them in sword range. Great.
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 10:51
#30
Aw men lawl :D Well - think
Aw men lawl :D Well - think what ever you want. I got my weapon, my tactics and my pretty nice killspeed. I don't force you to use BN, use what ever you want.
Sun, 10/02/2011 - 15:23
#31
If you do get a Callahan
If you do get a Callahan (which I really recommend) then make sure that you have auto aim ON when you use it. In PvE, it's incredibly helpful since you won't miss as much on Wolvers and such, and in PvP, the bullets will sometimes even home in on moving players.
e; Also, don't forget to note that the Stun is a very useful thing. If you get a stun, it'll buy you a lot of time to dodge or switch weapons or finish them off.
Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:37
#32
I recommend not to make it on
I recommend not to make it on permanently. For me I use following keys:
W, A, S, D for movement,
Shift for shield,
Space for Autoaim
(Mousescroll for weaponchange)
I use autoaim manually, because with Callahan you should use it, but sometimes it's important to shot between 2 mobs. So you deal double damage (wich is a great buff) due the splash of the weapon. You also can Suntlock so both mobs, with autoaim you couldnt.
Also for sniping mendors or silkwings between some mobs will force you to not use autoaim, devilites and single wolvers will force you to use it.
Polaris is elemenntal, so i would suggest a normal damage type gun like the Supernova or the Valliance, this is so that you have good damage against everything