Spiral Knights - PVP is just so boring/buggy now that invincibility frames were stealth patched back in

PVP is just so boring/buggy now that invincibility frames were stealth patched back in

23 replies [Last post]

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 10:51

Khamsin

Seriously. People may whine about combos all they want, but weapons were balanced around combos. Adding invincibility frames back into the PVP completely screwed up the balance... and all brought some bugs, like guardians being completely undamagable while blocking in a mist. Invincibility frames also punish teamplay. I understand frames were useful in preventing haze from chain applying their status... but how about instead you just nerf haze bombs and make them only apply their effect a set number of times? The only status that would significantly be nerfed by that in PVE is shivermist, and shivermist is already OP so that isn't a big loss.

Those are just my opinions though. I think I'm probably going to stop PVP'ing, and if the core isn't out within a month, I'll probably drop the game until the core is out.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 10:57

Pawn

lol

bombs are already completely underpowered vs swords, so nerfing them would be kinda ridiculous.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 11:07

Lordnamechange

...

bombs are completely superior to sword but guns are superior to bombs and how would you nerf a mist bomb honestly decrease the range for it even more than it alrdy has been or remove the fact that it inflicts a condition news flash dude the only use for that bomb is to inflict a condition if they nerf it any more then alot of people would have wasted about 1450 ce plus how much they pay for a med or very high uv and your only one person no one with care if u drop the game and they might not even make the core cause once they get into the core they get the energy and they leave the planet. duh! so unleashing the core meant putting an end to the game unless they come up with some stupid reason like o well the power in the core turned unharness able now were stuck on this planet forever boo hoo. if ur so bored with this game there are plenty others

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 11:31

Khamsin

Ummm...

What exactly are you trying to say? I can't even read your post, try again.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 11:32

Thoranhippo

Totally agree to the part

Totally agree to the part "Adding invincibility frames back into the PVP completely screwed up the balance... and all brought some bugs, like guardians being completely undamagable while blocking in a mist. Invincibility frames also punish teamplay."

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 11:54

Kwizzy

Is this mainly a T3 problem?

Is this mainly a T3 problem? I haven't noticed it making anything more boring or worse in T1 & 2, other than those cutter swords being kinda useless. We don't have huge radius bombs guardians stand in - ask your teammates not to use them if they're causing a problem.

Don't forget you can try the other tiers too! Maybe you'd enjoy them more - I know I do. :)

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 11:56

Ummeiko

I was wondering what was up

I was wondering what was up with my haze bombs today. Specifically people seeming to walk right through them without appearing to have a shield up.

I do think it's inevitable that we're going to start down the path of pvp nerfs affecting pve, and that's a path I've seen ruin too many games.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 12:03

Gyre-Of-Guile

Developer

one question

What's an "invincibility frame"?

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 12:10

Thoranhippo

I think OP refers to this

I think OP refers to this fact:
If for example 3 players are hitting a guardian shielding (or any player, shielding or not actually), only ONE of those player will deal him damage, while the other two hits won't be any use. Meanwhile guardian can easily hit the 3 players between 2 combos.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 12:19

Kwizzy

In particular, I think he

In particular, I think he means the bombs that do no damage to the guardian. Some people like to spam status inflicting bombs with a huge radius, and shielding prevents them from doing anything IIRC. Their blocking that constant bomb attack makes them immune to the damaging attacks of everyone else.

Personally I think the very short damage immunity after a hit is a good thing, but not in this situation.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 12:13

#10

Dirt

@Gyre-Of-Guile

It's the time when, after taking a hit, the Knight cannot be damaged again until it's over. In the Clockworks it's while you are blinking.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 12:17

#11

Mysticbeam

im sorry 4 any disrespect to the gms :D

an invincibility frame is the amount of time u are invincible after u are damaged.

when a knight is hit, he "blinks" for about a second. during that time, the said knight cannot be further damaged.

when a guardian is hit by mist, he reacts with that "twitching" the makes him invincible for that second, as the mist carries on, he in invincible, because the shield takes not damage, yet he gets the "invincibility frame" if a guardian was to stay in an opponents mist, he would have limited movement because of the "twitch" but would also be completely undamageable.

what the others are trying to say is that this is unfair, as the guardian can safley take over the control point without any dmg, and other attacks agasinst him/her are useless because hes invincible.

i hope i made things clearer, gyre-of-guile im trying to make full word like you do, saying because instead on bc and the such

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 12:37

#12

Negimasonic

whoa, there was a change? i

whoa, there was a change? i haven't been able to play much today (just two matches, and none the previous days) so I didn't notice much. Though I still detest bomb nerfing suggestions, seriously, use a gun. Or go skolver/divine. Or worst case, go capture another CP. It is not that hard. I don't think most people are running all the bombs possible so you can get invulnerability to one or the other...OR JUST SHOOT US =T

But yeah if guardians are using their shield to not take damage from mist attacks AND normal attacks, that's a bit much. Not enough for me to seriously complain I guess, but I feel that probably wasn't intended.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 13:33

#13

Milesprower

like he said

like negi said equip a gun and recon and bam. bombs are no problem. if you're tired of getting 1-shotted wear more gear resistant to fausts/DA/Shivermist and such.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 14:26

#14

Khamsin

@ the last two posts... read

@ the last two posts... read the OP again.

I don't have a problem with bombs. Clearly other people did though, which is probably why 000 stealth changed it, as to not upset bombers (you clearly seem to have missed it). What I'm suggesting is to revert the change to invincibility frames and then change haze bombs some other way (and honestly shivermist does need a nerf, so I could see limiting the number of procs per mist as hitting two birds with one stone)... frames are NOT the way to go about it.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 16:00

#15

Spamisalreadyinuse

it wasn't stealth patched, it

it wasn't stealth patched, it was always there.

it just stops one of two semi-instantaneous attacks from happening, and it isn't long enough to stop a combo.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 16:06

#16

Khamsin

"it just stops one of two

"it just stops one of two semi-instantaneous attacks from happening, and it isn't long enough to stop a combo."

It is long enough to stop a combo for specific weapons. You can combo for DA/GF for instance, but not with rapiers. That's probably part of the reason why DA/GF are back on top and rapiers are sitting around after having their 5 minutes of fame.

And no, it wasn't always there.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 16:10

#17

Xeirla

Rawr

It WAS always there and you didn't notice it.
Also i can combo with my Barbarous thorn blade quite nicely so...
yeah

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 16:13

#18

Khamsin

No, you can't. You can hit

No, you can't. You can hit with the first and third hit, but not hit with the first second and third hits (which is why I say the combat is awkward, I see top players using the second hit to lunge AWAY from their target and then lunge back toward their target to get the third hit).

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 16:40

#19

Spamisalreadyinuse

it's not new. ever been to

it's not new. ever been to clockworks where 2 enemies hit you at about the same time? you start blinking after the first hit and the damage from the second hit is nulled.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 16:43

#20

Khamsin

"it's not new. ever been to

"it's not new. ever been to clockworks where 2 enemies hit you at about the same time? you start blinking after the first hit and the damage from the second hit is nulled."

/derp

It wasn't in PVP when lockdown first hit live servers, and I don't know if it was unintentional, but it made the PVP a lot more fun IMO. Now it is "fixed", which IMO hurt PVP.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 17:54

#21

Spamisalreadyinuse

if this forum has a search

if this forum has a search function that's actually half decent, i would find you a post where I've said that I've noticed that guardian under shivermist will not take shield hits from anything else. and that was posted when lockdown first started. unfortunately, i cannot. so you'll just have to take my word for it :P

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 19:26

#22

Patito

It's a persistant problem

... that status clouds are treated like attacks on a shield. It is obvious the devs have struggled with this problem, and made hackish decisions around it (think about the special case of greaver status clouds simply ignoring shields). They need to rework status cloud interaction with shields, even though it will mean creating a new type of interaction. It needs to be done. This whole status-cloud-is-infini-attack-cloud is nonsense.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:29

#23

Cobaltstarfire

Seems like it'd be simple as

Seems like it'd be simple as reducing how often a status cloud attack ticks, but maybe not.

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PVP is just so boring/buggy now that invincibility frames were stealth patched back in