Spiral Knights - Mist Capacitor

Mist Capacitor

14 replies [Last post]

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 23:58

Polarisorbit

This is an idea for people who don't or can't play every day.

The concept:
Add a new item to the game called the "Mist Capacitor." It is used to refill the Mist Tank, and cannot be used directly for any other purpose (like crafting). You still make purchases using CE and Mist Tank energy ONLY. The Mist Capacitor only stores extra energy so you can refill your Mist Tank after it is depleted.

The Mist Capacitor accumulates energy only while the Mist Tank is completely filled, and it generates energy more slowly, too. Like the Mist Tank, the Mist Capacitor also has a maximum energy storage so you still have to remain active to get its benefit. The key here is that it's still better to use energy from your Mist Tank when possible. A perfect player who wants to maximize their Mist Energy would never use the Capacitor. It is just a benefit for the rest of us who are not perfect.

It could even be a minor crown sink by letting players "upgrade" their capacitors for a cost. The upgrade would not help it regenerate any faster, it would just let the capacitor store more energy before it maxed out. That is, it would let you leave the game alone more days at a time.

So that's the general idea, now I'll drill down to the implementation details, which of course could be modified as long as the spirit of the above intent is maintained.

The technicals:
-All players are given a new 0 star item called "Mist Tank" under the Consumable tab. It has no effect until it is upgraded. This represents the 100 energy Mist Tank you already have in the game (it kind of bothers me how it's presence is not indicated in your inventory so I put it there!)
-A vendor sells tickets to upgrade the "Mist Tank" into the "Mist Capacitor" (it's still also the "Mist Tank", but the Tank is unchanged by upgrading so the name reflects this). Each ticket adds one star to the item and increases the Energy capacity of the Mist Capacitor by 50, starting from 0 capacity at 0 stars. When it becomes a 1 star item it is renamed as the Mist Capacitor.
-Tickets cost 5000 crowns each (TBD)
-The Mist Capacitor can be used from the inventory whenever it has Energy. Using it fills up your Mist Tank as much as it can, but not higher than the 100 Mist Energy limit (again, the Mist Tank as it exists currently in the game is never changed by this suggestion)
-Mist Capacitor regenerates energy at 50% the rate of the Mist Tank (ie. One day refills only 50 energy in the Capacitor), and it only regenerates while the Mist Tank is completely full, so just one of the two is regenerating Mist at a time.
-Energy cannot be spent from the Mist Capacitor for any purpose other than refilling the Mist Tank. Therefore this cannot be used as an exploit to make crafting or other CE sinks cheaper.
-A maxed Mist Capacitor is a 5* item which costs 5 tickets (ie. 25000 crowns), stores 250 Energy, and takes 5 days to charge. This is the perfect size for someone who plays only on weekends.
-No one is forced to ever buy any tickets or in any way interact with the Mist Capacitor if they choose not to, and it will not effect their game at all by doing so.

What say ye?

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 00:24

Starlinvf

Not bad actually

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 00:43

Madadder

i'll give u credit for

i'll give u credit for creativity but the cost of the upgrades should increase with each star level 5k is was too cheap

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 05:30

Effrul

Agreed with Madadder that upgrades should scale with levels, the same way our equipment does, but this is surprisingly solid for an Energy-boost idea. It's useful for people who only play on weekends, or on other infrequent schedules, but doesn't impact on daily play at all - good stuff. It's probably not something I'd use personally; I tend to play every two or three days, so I'm not super regular, but one of the things I like about SK is that it's not a life-eater - I can play for an hour or so, until my ME runs out, then get on with the rest of my life - but I can certainly see the attraction for players who aren't on that often, but want to maximise the time they do have to spend.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 06:43

Zephyrgon

I've had the same idea as you did and i see this as actually a good way that people will invest their CE to get more mist. Good idea.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 12:05

Vanillateddy

Great idea, i like how you got this all worked out and have everything set to make sence.
Im also realy glad to see someone not [tart] about the mist but do something to help replenish it (for a fee of course).
But i will agree with the above when upgradeing it should costmore like this.
1 star- 5000 crowns
2 star- 10000 crowns
3 star- 15000 crowns
4 star- 20000 crowns
5 star- 25000 crowns

To me i feel that is is more fair because people would pay to have this mod and they would spend the total 75k to get this 250 mist replenisher when they need it.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 12:26

Uwriy

agree

great idea good for using crowns increases time i can go into clockworks.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 14:23

Algol-Sixty

Anything that lets player

Anything that lets player make more use of Mist Energy is going to be popular with players, so it isn't any surprise to me that there is a lot of support for this one.

First, if you want to "store up" energy, you already can via crafting. Just log on for a few minutes a day and craft some stuff, wapons, slot upgrades, etc. and sell it on the AH. You can easily get 50CE worth of energy per day.

Personally, I think ME is a botch on the game. Mist is needed in Spiral Knights so that players can't be deadlocked with no CE to earn crowns and no crowns to buy CE, but OOO's Puzzle Pirates game doesn't need anything like it. I'd rather see OOO making changes to that reduce or even eliminate the need for ME rather than adding new complications that let it be more ingrained. For example, making crowns desirable enough that the cr<->CE exchange rate drops by at least half would mean OOO could also reduce the rate that ME regenerates. Reducing the elevator fees for stratum 1 would also help reduce the energy deadlock problem. Such things would increase the amount of CE used and sold by OOO, and the lower exchange rate would make it easier for new players to stick with the game.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 15:47

Grittle

+1.5 for me! i only play on

+1.5 for me! i only play on weekends, an extra 50 me is purfect

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 06:51

Starlinvf

@Algol-Sixty

The reality would the exact opposite of what your thinking. Crowns are a theoretically unlimited resource, and they would have to sharply reduce the drop rates on it or the low cost to run the clockworks would lead to wild inflation crown inflation. Theres also a finite amount of use for CE in crafting since items never decay, and slot upgrades is the only other CE sink in the game. That would eventually limit the amount of CE needed by the game, and cut down the amount people would buy.

Also, Puzzle Pirates is a market driven game that uses doubloons at its core. The key difference however is items regularly decay, creating a constant need for doubloons to obtain materials and maintain your items. Energy works in a similar principle since it drives the core activity of the game, which is diving into the clock works.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 09:39

#10

Algol-Sixty

Crowns are a theoretically

Crowns are a theoretically unlimited resource

Crowns are only unlimited if you have an unlimited number of hours in a day, but no one has more than 24. Selling crowns for CE is actually selling player time for CE, letting some players skip having to grind out crowns, while other players skip paying for the game with real money.

Theres also a finite amount of use for CE in crafting since items never decay, and slot upgrades is the only other CE sink in the game. That would eventually limit the amount of CE needed by the game, and cut down the amount people would buy.

Running gates requires energy, as long as people are playing the game there will not be a limit to the amount of energy needed by the game. My gut feel is that crafting sinks much much less CE than running gates and energy reviving does. Crafting is one of the more optional uses of energy, when the choice is between running gates and crafting new items, crafting loses out since the new items are useless if you can't run gates.

In short, there is not a "limited amount of CE needed by the game" and crowns are not an "unlimited resource".

Sinking crowns indirectly sinks energy, since the only way crowns get fountained into the game is by running gates, which requires energy. So, for example, by shifting the costs of stuff in Haven from using lots of energy to using lots of crowns, the cr<->CE exchange rate will decrease, but OOO can still get just as much CE sunk. Adding other highly-desirable crown sinks would also shift the exchange rate down.

And, again, the lower the cr<->CE exchange rate is, the less important ME is. Instead of limiting your game play to what you can do on ME, players will be much more likely to use CE. ME brings in no money for OOO.

ME is a botch on the game and both OOO and the players would be better off if it wasn't needed.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 11:08

#11

Starlinvf

Now I'm getting lost....

Now I'm getting lost.... First your talking about uniformly cutting the value of energy, and then talk about using it as a paywall.... which will let them remove ME..... so it'll sell more CE.... because its less valuable? The whole concept breaks down when the paywall is in front of a toll gate.... that being the case, then they may as well do a subscription server like they did with Puzzle Pirates, and wave the Energy costs.

And crowns are still theoretically unlimited unless you lock people out of the clockworks. CE is different since it can only be brought in externally, and nothing in the game is capable of creating, or even converting something else into it. Crowns on the other hand can be obtained as long as there is a way to access the clockworks, and the supply has no risk of disappearing unless that happens. Ergo, there is no direct relationship between CR & CE unless ME (which gives access to the clockworks) is removed.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 14:54

#12

Varja

This is not original

Someone already thought of this idea

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/26652

just say'n

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 16:23

#13

Antistone

Design Goals

Presumably part of the reason mist works the way it does is to encourage players to play the game more often; they want you to make Spiral Knights part of your daily routine, not something you only think about once in a while.

Ignoring the issue of spending >100 mist at once for a moment, imagine if you could accumulate an entire year's worth of mist. That would tend to result in people having accounts that they basically never play, but check into once in a long while to do a bunch of crafting/upgrade purchasing/whatever with that mountain of mist energy. That doesn't really make the game better for anyone; it allows lapsed players to screw up the economy without really playing the game, putting new players at a disadvantage, and it certainly doesn't get players addicted to the game like the publisher wants.

As Algol-Sixty points out, you can currently convert 100 mist into 50+ crystal energy for about a minute's effort, by crafting items or buying upgrades and then reselling them. This mist capacitor just saves you the step of logging in for a couple minutes on a day you don't play. But the publisher wants you to log in for a couple minutes on a day you don't play, because that gets you thinking about the game more often and establishes a habit of coming back. While this "capacitor" wouldn't screw up any game mechanics I can think of, it also doesn't really accomplish anything except to remove one of the hooks they use to coax you into coming back, so I have a hard time seeing why this would be implemented.

The daily mist limit isn't there because the designers couldn't come up with anything more flexible, it's deliberate psychological manipulation.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 20:17

#14

Bigfootm

+1 But

Because it can be abused, even at 5*, say it gets what, 1 Extra mist every... Half hour? No. Still too OP. Sounds crazy, but one extra mist every 45 Minutes sounds fine to me.

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Mist Capacitor