Spiral Knights - Gran Faust is Overpowered totally broken sort it out!

Gran Faust is Overpowered totally broken sort it out!

35 replies [Last post]

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:51

Lestatshadow

First of i don't care if this thread is made more than you've had hot dinners that alone shows you that people are not happy with how Overpowered the Gran Faust is compared to all other weapons in game.

I play a lot of lockdown and i do pretty will for a gunslinger hitting 6-8k points a game i use recon (most health in game) but im still getting destroyed by Gran Faust over and over again no matter what trinkets i wear or def my armor has. Come on this is not remotely fair im in fall deadshot and they can still 2 shot me that's no different than if i was wearing elemental def armor, WTF! its Deadshot for god sakes its has strong def agents all shadow attacks and i still get 2 hits KOed.
all other sword take 3-4 hit to kill me when I'm wear 2 jelly trinkets using recon, but not Gran Faust its ridicules!

Simply put Gran Faust need a nuff it totally ignore shadow defense armor as if it was not there simple and clear to see.

Inb4 you mad? trolls will not be feed today.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:58

Kwizzy

Play tier 1 or 2 lockdown

Play tier 1 or 2 lockdown instead if you haven't tried them yet. They don't have a Gran Faust, or even Faust.

But yeah - our player attacks are greatly more powerful than our defenses. This weapon just makes it more obvious than some of the others.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 13:08

Bopp

counterpoint

In the Clockworks, Gran Faust is not at all overpowered. In fact, I prefer Acheron over GF for PvE. So maybe the solution isn't to weaken the weapons, but rather to strengthen the armor in PvP?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 13:09

Lestatshadow

Quote> Play tier 1 or 2

Quote> Play tier 1 or 2 lockdown instead if you haven't tried them yet. They don't have a Gran Faust, or even Faust.

I understand this if you like run around with 3 star armor that's cool! but i have 8 5 star guns and 3 type of 5 star armor that i want to use in lockdown the only thing i want is it to be a fair fight i understand im never going to do as much damage as a sword player or a bomber i don't care im a gunslinger al lready used to this the resion im a gunslinger is i enjoy kiting around my victims why i fill them though of lead what i don't like is if i get hit by a sword in the highest health buff in the game (recon) to even the score a little to still only take 2 hit before i die with those swords.

no other sword dose this, no other sword ignore you armor def style just the Faust and Gran Faust this is why there Overpowered.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 13:11

Sunless

Gran Faust does not ignore

Gran Faust does not ignore your "defensive style," it's just that powerful.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 13:15

Lestatshadow

@Replicant well explains to

@Replicant well explains to me why i can easy survivor 3-4 hit with any other sword but Gran Faust even when wear shadow def armor 2 hits and im dead.

i done some testing that no less damage then if i was to wear nameless armor!

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 13:21

New-Dusk

I've been two shotted by a

I've been two shotted by a final flourish...

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 13:21

Sunless

Because the Gran Faust is

Because the Gran Faust is simply that retardedly powerful. Not saying it doesn't need to be nerfed and the like, but its damage output [for PVP and PVE] has always been that ridiculous though not for the reasons you are implying.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 13:25

Elpeo-Kasshu

Really? That means the Divine

Really? That means the Divine Avenger has to be broken too, I've gotten 2HKO'ed with full Demo armor on, if either sword were debuffed, they would be useless in PvE compared to other Shadow/Elemental Swords than they already are.

@Bopp That might be a better idea.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 13:58

Negimasonic

Eh like someone wrote

Eh like someone wrote somewhere else, our weapons were meant for monsters, they're incredibly strong. Ourselves, we are actually weak. We can't tank anything, PVP or PVE. Go into FSC with nonshadow resist armor and you'll get similarly three shotted with the environment equivalent of a recon (+9 vitapod, or +10 if you are coming from tier 2/lucky). But even with armor in tier 3 versus enemies, you still get hurt quite a bit and you don't last that much longer. I've had lumbers one hit my grey owlite =T, that's a shield but its a similar concept. Go take some hits from a stratum 6 tier 3 lumber and tell me how many hits you can take in whatever armor you like, that's essentially a DA. GF is just the same as that.

All other swords you encounter are three hit swords, so they're a little weaker anyway. GF and DA are strong because in the environment they are that strong, they pay for it with their slow natural speed. Let's not forget in PVP its even worse with people in Vog or using (insert trinket/UV) here.

No one noticed how powerful these things were until they were turned on them, but honestly its not that big of an issue, join the club or learn strategy around it. You're a gunner, honestly you're supposed to die against these weapons, distance is your strong point, but once they get close, you're supposed to go down :D Be glad Recons/Guardians get a health boost. You nerf these weapons AT ALL, then everyone will just stop using them period cuz they're going to suck compared to the three swing swords that'd do equivalent damage.

P.S. I'm a bomber-recon mostly so I don't really bother with DA. I have a normal faust but I actually run around with a Dark Thorn Blade (yes the 4*) or Leviathan.

EDIT: I do see buffing armor for PVP only perhaps can help but I don't fully support it cuz people always say in tier 3, you should try not to get hit as your armor won't save you much, why should that be different for PVP? And yes, I do die a lot :P

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 13:54

#10

Velcro

To be perfectly honest, it is

To be perfectly honest, it is ridiculously easy to dodge DA/GF. If you get hit by the first, and proceed to get hit by the second swing then you sir, did not move, at all.

I really don't think it's that bad. So many times I'll dodge the first, or get hit, back-up and dodge the second then proceed to get in a quick strike with a BTB. Because most DA/GF users are in Vog, and I have Max Sword Damage with Skolver and 2 Elite Slash trinkets, two swipes with my BTB and they're usually down.

Tbh, good Strikers with BTB or FF take me down far more than anyone with DA/GF.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 14:02

#11

Prolevel

hmmmm

u should get each of every def
i have piercing,norm and element defense so after crafting divine mantle theres not much to be worried about/. u should do the same but with gun armor. like use deadshot for shdow.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 14:16

#12

Lestatshadow

@Velcro OK first of how is it

@Velcro OK first of how is it ridiculously easy to dodge when your half the speed of a striker and thy can lock onto you sword spam in your general direction when your clocking back which BTW take far to long to do its not instant there a delay! and hit you nearly every time. Add the fact that most sword seam to be able to hit you before there anywhere near there target they act like bloody guns most of the time hitting you a good 2 swings away from your position.

Yes you can dodge that when you playing recon if you don't walk in a straight line and get to close the the sword spam! but no way is it easy to dodge if your a recon player.

all i ask is that the armor resistance to what ever element you want to be protect yourself from did just that, at the moment it dose sod all!

@Prolevel the point im getting at that make not a sod of a difference to your def im in fall (deadshot armor) Eg. shadow def and with 2 piercing jelly trinkets and guess what i still get 2 shoted buy Gran Faust every time i may as well be in my elemental def armor (nameless set) for all the good it dose me as i will die in the same amount of hits no mater what armor def i have

this sword pretty much ignore armor def resistance or if not may as well do as it 2 shot you no matter what!

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 14:22

#13

Kngster

Agreed with OP. It should be

Agreed with OP. It should be more forgiving in terms of getting hit

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 14:24

#14

Nicoya-Kitty

I'm pretty sure that most

I'm pretty sure that most players spend a lot of time dead when playing T3 lockdown. Just like most people in T1 Lockdown spend most of their time alive (we all agree that it's a wet noodle fight).

If someone wants to prove me wrong and post some videos of their back-to-back no-death T3 matches you're welcome to it. But my point is that it's easy to feel like the only one getting owned when you're waiting to respawn, especially with how quickly you (and everyone else) go down in T3.

You say you play gunner and recon, so keep your distance, cloak and dodge when GF strikers rocket towards you, and use map obstacles to your advantage. A number of maps have low walls that you can shoot over, and a swordie won't be able to hit you at all if they're on the other side of it.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 14:25

#15

Mysticbeam

lol

i read 1 post about how 2 beat the 2-swingers, to wait for the first swing or full combo, then strike, then i went out and pwned them.
im not a major dmg dealer, i just either distract the enemy or finish off wounded enemies b4 they get 2 base. if ur a gunner, use either sentenza, or a polaris. stay far away! if u get 2 shotted anyway, use anothere class that lets enemy strikers wear out their shield, then gun the heck outta them.

i usually go for heavy sword users, or noobs :D, i have the most problem with those BTB users, they are extremely annoying

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 14:37

#16

Velcro

Just to clarify. Are you

Just to clarify. Are you saying two hits from the first hit of the sword are killing you? Or the full two hit combo?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 14:44

#17

Lestatshadow

@Velcro i mean i get hit once

@Velcro i mean i get hit once by a sticker with a Gran Faust so i cloak and try and dodge there attack but they have auto locked on me and shoot across the screen and hit me again most time when im clocked Thank you warning message for that (dumb idea if you ask me!) cant dudge there atack when they locked on to you when you move super slow like walking through treacle.

so you kind of rely on being able to take a couple of hit which with every other sword i can do.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 14:48

#18

Xcleb

i disagree

yes, faust an grand faust are both very powerful weapons in lockdown. however, the problem isn't the overpoweredness of the weapon, its the lack of what armor does. if one were to tone down the power of faust, the would have to tone down about every other 5* weapon used. and to be honest, im more scared of the people that use flourishes and thorn blades (they do just as much damage, but are much faster) and the brandish line (same thing as flourish). in the game, armor defenses contribute nearly nothing to defense, and so does what class you are. in reality, GF/DA (forget to mention that did you?) are just affective weapons people use. would you rather use something ineffective or something that works? and, if you're so sick of them, learn to dodge, THEY ARE FREAKING SLOW! (also, yes. auto target is for people that cant play, and make it WAAAAY unbalanced)

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 15:00

#19

Lestatshadow

Im just wonder dose 000 give a [crap]?

Im just wonder dose 000 give a [crap] there doing nothing at all to make lockdown more balanced!

There have been so many legitimate complain about balancing issues in lock-down think like sword ignoring armor def, auto lock-on making it near impossible to dodge anything unless your a striker, rage quite out of the game crippling your team give the other team a easy win.

so many more problem i could bring up but that for another day

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 15:13

#20

Diamondos

well...

well, the gran faust and the divine avenger are heavy swords, and they help alot. If three rings were to debuff them, that would make other ppl mad and some others happy, which doesn't really change anything, and no one really wins. Also, debuffing them would make it harder to use in the clockworks, and also make ppl not even want to use heavy swords. Flourishes and the pulsar line also face the same disputes over a lot of members. In all, they should justify the armors that shield against these weapons or create special pvp armor to counter these weapons. Sometimes it is unfair, but as I say: If you can't beat them, just ambush them and plan ahead.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 15:24

#21

Velcro

An alternative, if you're

An alternative, if you're annoyed at Strikers GF/DAing your face. Charge up a Glacius/Voltedge/Combuster and slam them with it when they come charging in. 9 times out of 10 I insta-kill them right there.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 18:57

#22

Gwenyvier

I have a lot of different

I have a lot of different weapons, and have used them/had them used on me in lockdown. Assuming you're in in 5* armor a Sealed Sword/Troika lines will 2 hit a Striker, 3 hit a Recon, and (after breaking their shield, which takes 2 hits for Sealed Sword/Troika lines) 4 hit a Guardian. Brandish line weapons and Flourish/Snarby will do the same thing, full swing set for Striker, +1 for Recon, +2 for Guardian. Assuming they don't have health trinkets/Ancient Plate set. WHB/DVS won't unless by some divine intervention they hit you with all 10 strikes, which doesn't happen very often. All bets are off if you're not in 5* armor. That's pretty much for all the 5* swords though... a full combo, +1 for Recon, +2 for Guardian will have them eating dirt.

The heavy swords do exactly what they are meant to, comparable damage to the 3-hit swords in 2 hits. Which, by the way, they actually do LESS in a full swing combo then the comparable Brandish lines. GF: 234, 363 (597 total). Acheron: 203, 203, 292 (698 total).

As I have said before, it is not the weapons that are the issue. They do exactly what they're supposed to: big damage. Otherwise what was the point of getting them to 5*? The problem is that armor quite simply does not block enough damage in lockdown. Put a Striker (not wearing health trinkets or Ancient Plate) in front of a GF combo and they're dead regardless of if they have on Vog (no shadow resist) or Dread Skelly (highest shadow resist in the game). And is the entire reason you see a massive amount of Vogs and Skolvers. If the resistance doesn't matter then you might as well get the biggest bonus you can for your weapons.

~Gwen

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 19:10

#23

Lithanium

unfortuneately

Its not too easy to land a gran faust hit in the first palce. but if you can, the enemy is in serious trouble (being a gran faust user myself)

Of course, i use recon, so i wouldnt know how much the striker helps. i just like sneaking up behing people and 1 hitting them =P

In lockdown, its more like kill the enemies quickly before they get your butt and knife you.

If u use guns and recon, u can kite by making them waste their striker spritn then getting a gfew hits in. slow, but it works.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 19:21

#24

Asthix

GF causes me more problems

GF causes me more problems than any other weapon since they take out defender shields like butter. The problem is with certain strikers who are good enough to kill vastly more than they die. (the arc swing is also a part of it) An upped fencer is just as deadly though since they can attack while speeding if they're attack speed is high enough. They can travel pretty far with striker speed on their first thrust if its timed right. A fix for that would be nice.

Don't really know what to do with DA. Provide a little bit more shadow def on things?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 19:29

#25

Speetz

As a gunslinger you shouldn't

As a gunslinger you shouldn't be getting hit by GF. Ever. Watch some vids, their are some very serous and well made defenses against it's slow, easily avoidable attack.

Now, if your lagging I could see hating it, as when I do they eat me. But I am not trying to be mean, simply stating what I see of other GSers. Blueflood does amazing in that department, and has some vids on YT, but he doesn't play recon. The piercing swords should be your biggest problem, and is what I eat good GSers with, or occasionally my Acheron.

@ Velcro:

Hell yes! I charge my Acheron/Blizz and destroy people all the time. They don't expect it. Especially defenders XD

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 19:43

#26

Richy

No.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:05

#27

Ninjazombeh

I guess i can agree that the

I guess i can agree that the GF is Overpowered but tbh the whole concept with the striker makes it OP, Striker has very little limits, (health and charges on bombs) the guns are no problem and neither are the swords. This pretty much makes it a power house most of the time, im a bomber and strikers piss me off more than anything, i can barely move around or set bombs without one of them swapping to a polaris or DA, GF, FF. And i have actually used the faust with it and whoa is its BS. there are times where we can be missing left and right but only 2 hits and im good, a bomber comes and all i need is a polaris to spam him with. And to have some proof for this, well pretty much everyone in LD plays striker because its more versitile and abusive than the rest.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:46

#28

Rangerwillx

@Ninjazombeh

Next time look at how old the thread was, dirt digging doodle dog (joke, not a insult).

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 19:26

#29

Dirt

I'm Commander Dirt and this

I'm Commander Dirt and this is the least-legible thread on the front page.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 05:37

#30

Fashama

Interesting discussions are

Interesting discussions are interesting, even if they are a century old.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 14:44

#31

Xylka-Mkii

I gotta say, it is a bit

I gotta say, it is a bit rediculous.
Even with someone in full shadow resist who can't take more than 2 hits with recon, and I'm using Max Normal UV on my Skolver helm paired with Snarby coat and I basically go get a soda as soon as i see a GF touch me, yeahh.... a BIT much. Also if its not just me, but toothpicksare now pretty much on par with something now soo... +1 I guess?

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 16:03

#32

Neodasus

The sealed sword variants are

The sealed sword variants are absurdly overpowered under the influence of a recon death mark.

Troika line vs Skolver would simply be a 10-20% boost in damage, whereas a combo from a split-damage sealed sword is roughly a 40% boost in damage.

Also, more than any other LD class the striker can be knocked back with ease. Keep that in mind.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 16:05

#33

Shue-Donnym

@Dirt

Oh i remember that Magnus quote, good days.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 16:08

#34

Iapnez

Watch. After they modify the

Watch. After they modify the way charge attacks work, people will start complaining how the brandishes, Levi, and FoV are all overpowered. We'll be seeing a lot more charge kills... especially from people wielding the FoV. Insane Elemental + Normal... and now when we fully charge we can't have our charges interrupted anymore. Since it has a wide, 360 degree radius, toothpickers will have to be insanely lucky to NOT get hit by it.

Moral of the story: There is always something that is most powerful or best to use in a given situation. Just use what's better and get good with it because it will increase your chances of success.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 19:07

#35

Poopstinks

LOL

Well, if you are having trouble with Gran Fausts, (It's O.K. I hate them too but i use my own G.F. in lockdown though) then go striker. Those things are insanely fast and even i have trouble hitting them unless I use my F.F. I get overwhelmed when Gunner Strikers attack me...

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Gran Faust is Overpowered totally broken sort it out!