Title for reference. I'm curious if Acheron is enough to kill Jelly King without using any vials or pills reliably.
Is Jelly King easily doable using only Acheron?
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 07:13
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 07:30
#2
tough
I assume that you're talking about doing it solo with only Acheron? I've never tried it, but I think it would be tough. If you could go in with a couple of curse, poison, and/or pills that would help a lot. Then again, being solo can help with herding problems, so you can charge.
Maybe I'm telling you something you already know, but the Jelly King is not weak to shadow, so Acheron is not especially good (or bad).
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 07:41
#3
"I assume that you're talking
"I assume that you're talking about doing it solo with only Acheron?"
Yes.
"but the Jelly King is not weak to shadow, so Acheron is not especially good"
Better than using a DA though I imagine, DA is far too slow.
Anyways, if Acheron isn't all that reliable, I may have to stick with Dread Venom. I would have liked to work Acheron into my build simply because gremlins are annoying to the max and I wouldn't mind critical damage against them, but if Acheron isn't enough to deal with a giant jelly, I have to stick with what I have.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 07:47
#4
Clearing up something that
Clearing up something that looks like it might have been misunderstood here, Shadow and Elemental damage are equivalent against Jelly King.
Also, Dread Venom Striker is less useful against Jelly King than the 5* Brandish lines unless you have a party that can distract the other jellies. The DPS of Dread Venom throttles significantly and is lower than the 5* brandish lines if you can't pull off the entire combo.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:32
#5
hmmmm...I have seen sub 1
hmmmm...
I have seen sub 1 minute solo vids of DVS vs JK so I would have to disagree with Vole on the DVS only being useful for party use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tLbWDAzwLM
Also, Ima have to see an Acheron only, no vial, no pill, solo video before I believe that is a good idea and even then I think it would just be a video of a super strong player. Can you make a recording Volebamus?
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:30
#6
Acheron and DVS
When I do the Jelly King, I carry an elemental sword, Acheron, and DVS. Of these, the elemental sword is least important; the constructs in the Royal Jelly Palace can be processed with either of the other swords. So how about just carrying Acheron and DVS, if you have only two weapon slots?
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:40
#7
"Also, Dread Venom Striker is
"Also, Dread Venom Striker is less useful against Jelly King than the 5* Brandish lines unless you have a party that can distract the other jellies."
Or don't be bad. Dread Venom is domination against JK.
"So how about just carrying Acheron and DVS, if you have only two weapon slots?"
I have room for one weapon to kill JK and this item is also required to deal with some other weaknesses my loadout has. The only two items that meet all my expectations for the weapon slot available are Acheron and Dread Venom.
Obviously, if I had a less finite amount of weapon slots, I would just bring a FoV and 3-spin kill giant jelly. Sadly, FoV is too limited in functionality and has some overlap with other items I have.
Anyways, from the feedback I've gotten, it seems Acheron isn't worth pursuing simply for some extra critical damage against Gremlins if it can't reliably make short work of a giant jelly.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:45
#8
"I'm curious if Acheron is
"I'm curious if Acheron is enough to kill Jelly King without using any vials or pills reliably."
Gut reflex is the simple answer to your question is: No.
I'm not saying its not possible. I'm just saying that the Acheron is not going to reliably kill the JK without vials or pills in the hands of most knights. If this is your goal, get a FoV (there are sub-30 second vids of this out there). Baring the FoV I think the DVS is your best shot. Though note that that video I posted started with a CIV charge and used 2 Curse Vials and 3 pills, so this is not going to meet your expectations unless you are highly skilled. Really I think the Fang is the only sword that will reliably kill the JK with no need for vials or pills (though depending on your gear you may need pills to recover from the charge backlash).
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:54
#9
"If this is your goal, get a
"If this is your goal, get a FoV (there are sub-30 second vids of this out there)."
This is not an option. I have used FoV to kill jelly and its about 20 seconds, but FoV doesn't meet other expectations I have for that specific weapon slot.
"Really I think the Fang is the only sword that will reliably kill the JK with no need for vials or pills"
I can kill JK with a DVS without vials or pills fine. So your opinion isn't very valuable to me if this is what you believe.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:40
#10
Khamsin
Or don't be bad.
- Khamsin
Or don't be bad. Dread Venom is domination against JK.
I doubt you've actually researched this as I or others have, since you haven't even tried with Acheron yourself. I used to use DVS for JK over half a year ago, but switched when I ended up killing it faster using Combuster.
And exactly how fast can you kill him with DVS? Done with a Brandish 5* line right, it can be killed within just 1 tantrum. I can update this topic when I have time to reach the boss when necessary.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:53
#11
OK, I''m a bit confused if
OK, I''m a bit confused if you already have 2 swords that you are proficient enough with to kill the JK solo without the use of pills and vials, then why are you looking for another?
Both the FoV and the DVS cause status that will disrupt the JK's healing. The Acheron will not. The only tactical advantage to using the Acheron over any other 3 swing sword is that it will more easily kill regular slimes that are in your way.
So, if you can take out the JK, solo, no pills, no vials, with the Acheron then chances are you can do so with most any 5* sword.
The thing about your question is do you mean "reliably" for the average SK player? Which is how I answered it. Or "reliably" for you (Khamsin) personally? Which I can't possibly answer, because I have never seen you play, have no idea what your loadout is, what country you are lagging from, etc...
*edit*
Yeah, Volebamus, I was thinking that the fire status on the Combuster would better choice then at least the Acheron for the JK himself.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:10
#12
"OK, I''m a bit confused if
"OK, I''m a bit confused if you already have 2 swords that you are proficient enough with to kill the JK solo without the use of pills and vials, then why are you looking for another?"
Because I'm not looking for a sword to kill JK solo. I'm looking for a sword that can kill giant jelly solo while at the same time fulfilling various other roles that need to be filled.
Stop trying to give advice and just focus on the question that is asked.
"I used to use DVS for JK over half a year ago, but switched when I ended up killing it faster using Combuster."
Speed is irrelevant for my concerns if I can kill giant jelly as long as it doesn't take an abnormal amount of time. So at most combuster could be equally as useful as DVS for that specific role, although I have no need for a combuster.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 14:21
#13
DPS calculations
I just pulled some numbers* from a run, using both an Acheron and DVS against JK.
These are the appropriate numbers combo wise:
- Acheron: 126 / 126 / 166
- Dread Venom: 58+33 / " " / " " / " " / 73+33
This makes the complete combo damage of Acheron 418, and DVS as 470
In Training Hall, the combos per minute were as follows:
Combuster: 38
Dread Venom: 28
That makes the Acheron's effective DPS** against JK as 264.7, while DVS's as 219.3 base, making Acheron's damage effectively 21% more.
However, this doesn't take into account of the effect of poison, which in all honesty is NOT as reliable from DVS as people always assume, as sometimes I need to do at least 2 combos for the poison status to actually take into effect. Even then, the damage boost from poison increases the DVS damage up only 19%***. Yet, if we do include the poison's effect on Jelly King's regeneration of 38 HPS, DVS's effective DPS against a poisoned JK is 299.3****, a 36.5% boost over the DVS's base damage.
------
My conclusion in all of this is basically whatever the DVS can do against Jelly King, Acheron can damage more consistently when factoring the actual likelihood of when JK gets poisoned, as there were memorable times in the past when I would kill JK with the DVS without poisoning it once. Combuster outshines both the Acheron and DVS outright in this situation.
To mention, this is all without factoring in charge attacks (Brandish lines have favorable ones while Striker's are nearly suicidal) and use of any poison vials (which would tip the advantage in obvious ranges to the Brandish lines even moreso).
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* For reference, all of these numbers are derived with both Max Sword Damage Increase and Max ASI
** Calculated as (combos per minute) * (total combo damage) / 60
*** Change from (58+33) to (72+36)
**** ( [ (72 + 36) * 5 + 20] * 28 / 60 ) + 38
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 14:40
#14
So to answer the topic's
So to answer the topic's title yet again: Yes.
Yes it can.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 14:42
#15
whoah, let's not be hasty!
Khamsin said, "I have room for one weapon to kill JK and this item is also required to deal with some other weaknesses my loadout has. The only two items that meet all my expectations for the weapon slot available are Acheron and Dread Venom."
I don't understand why you have to choose between Acheron and DVS. What is your other weapon? What are you going to use on all of those slimes leading up to JK? Acheron, Gran Faust, or a shadow gun, presumably.
"Anyways, from the feedback I've gotten, it seems Acheron isn't worth pursuing simply for some extra critical damage against Gremlins if it can't reliably make short work of a giant jelly."
I'm one of the people who advised against using Acheron alone against JK. But I strongly recommend Acheron as a sword. I used Gran Faust for a long time, but now I rarely use it, because Acheron is easier (at least for me) against Stratum 6 gremlins and gremlin menders everywhere.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 14:51
#16
i solo JK with boltband
with
i solo JK with boltband
with no deaths >:D
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:30
#17
i recomend using the faust
i recomend using the faust (gran faust) if you want to use a shadow sword (you can't use the charge tough because you'll reviving before you can say "come here you big lump of gelatine"
dunno if i was lucky but i kept him pretty much cursed on my first solo yesterday (testing my faust for the first time so it was only on lvl 2) and i know i'm a noob i revived because i got swarmed by the mini's and then the RJ charged at me haha
but all in all i think it's doable, just spam your charge (CTR uv or trinkets would come in handy)
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:21
#18
""OK, I''m a bit confused if
""OK, I''m a bit confused if you already have 2 swords that you are proficient enough with to kill the JK solo without the use of pills and vials, then why are you looking for another?"
Because I'm not looking for a sword to kill JK solo. I'm looking for a sword that can kill giant jelly solo while at the same time fulfilling various other roles that need to be filled.
Stop trying to give advice and just focus on the question that is asked."
Why don't you try explaining the whole situation and stop wasting everybody's time
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 00:14
#19
I found this video helpful:
I found this video helpful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqRm9qxArWw
He employs careful use of vials, but you'll have much better gear. So I'd like to think it's feasible.
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 07:54
#20
.
acheron > combuster for JK himself due to high damage count on hits
acheron < combuster for JK palace stages due to fire damage on charge hits
my Tier1 or Tier2 weapon setup which covers most stuff for me :)
: Combuters = high CTR
: Polaris = very high ASI
: Acheron = high CTR + low contruct damage
basically i use the Acheron for JK himself and combuster for everything else in JK palace
use pills almost all the time even thou i have +4 and +5 heart pendants... depends on whether im trapped by jellies or not :)
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 07:27
#21
...To repeat myself again:
1)
...To repeat myself again:
1) Acheron by itself is fine to use against Jelly King due to its DPS
2) Combuster and Voltedge are better only because of their charge attack, as the Jelly King receives the same damage from equivalent elemental and shadow sources, yet those swords can also give damaging status effects.
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 08:36
#22
.
no need to repeat yourself... nothing wrong with me giving my experience with both weapons
prefer Acheron for JK and its great for gremlin or beast family :)
prefer DPS which Acheron wins against Combuster...
charge hitting is no good if you are getting hit constantly...
which rules out the Combuster for me on JK...
depends on you playing style...
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 08:41
#23
Mbcscp, Combuster and Acheron
Mbcscp, Combuster and Acheron do the same amount of damage to Jelly King. As in, exactly the same. Therefore, it's impossible for the Acheron to have higher DPS against Combuster in this situation.
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 18:07
#24
.
you are correct, i stand corrected :)
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 21:28
#25
Ive beaten JK solo in 22
Ive beaten JK solo in 22 seconds with only 2 weps, Elec Vort + FoV. The FoV is the best for the job - the way i run it.
I follow strictly the method of the runner who did it in 18 seconds - the record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbXoQ8odFb8&feature=related
With the FoV, as you can see, its VERY easy to solo JK.
FoV>Combuster>Archeron>DVS imho - you can get poison vials in the preceding levels, and fire is very important to a steady drain of health. Also, the spam attack is kinda worthless with the DVs.
Sat, 10/08/2011 - 09:18
#26
I hope my post makes a little
I hope my post makes a little more sense now with the recent announcement.
Sun, 10/09/2011 - 06:41
#27
Curious, did anything change
Curious, did anything change as far as the existing JK fight goes?
Sun, 10/09/2011 - 10:22
#28
"but the Jelly King is not
"but the Jelly King is not weak to shadow, so Acheron is not especially good"
I got yellow numbers with my umbra driver =/ so its slighty weak to shadow.
Sun, 10/09/2011 - 11:51
#29
i belive but take dread vile
i belive but take dread vile striker or the 4* version of it as a posion wep or bring a diff posion wep
Actually yes. The easiest way is using the one-two or shield cancelling attacks (and good timing of shields when it actually attacks) while head on and charge-ready at the start and during tantrums, while also weaving through the smaller ones appropriately.
It's a bit slow in method to other direct-charge techniques, but useful if you have no pills and want to avoid revives. And to mention, Combuster and Voltedge end up making it easier and dealing more damage due to JK being weak against elemental as well.