Spiral Knights - Shadow Guns (Any other suggestions is fine)

Shadow Guns (Any other suggestions is fine)

31 replies [Last post]

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 20:33

Horizonknight

So I have made a large amount of planning for my sets in the future. I am tickled about choosing what kind of shadow guns
My planned weapons/ armor
Leviathan
Divine Avenger
Barbarous Thorn Blade
Archeon

Valiance
Polaris
(shadow gun)
Callahan

Nameless Hat (UVs: Freeze resistance low, shock resistance high)
Vog Cub Coat

The choices for shadow gun are Umbra, Sentenza, and Biohazard. I'm leaning towards Sentenza because it can cover the Divine Avenger's weakness of beasts and gremlins. But before I continue, any suggestions or call to turn back?

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 20:40

Goldmaker

Umbra ---> Insane Charge

Umbra ---> Insane Charge attack dmg, ricochet, insane dmg per bullet, insane bullet speed
Biohazard ----> 3 bullets, normal dmg per bullet, AoE poison status effect + insane dmg, chance to poison status efffect per bullet, slow bullets.

Both are awsome.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 00:25

Antiope

Take a pure shadow weapon.

If you've got four weapon slots, and are going to mix/match between every possible damage type, there's really no reason to take a weapon that deals normal damage, because you can bring a loadout that is strong against every monster type with just three weapons. That said, I'll echo the choice of either Umbra or Biohazard, because the weakness you're covering from DA is strictly shadow, and Sentenza is split shadow/normal, which is half a solution.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 00:30

Gist

Correcting Antiope's Sentenza comment

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Sentenza

Split shadow & piercing.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 00:40

Antiope

Doesn't disprove my point.

Doesn't disprove my point. If you need piercing, the Barbarous Blade or the Callahan will do it better, and if you need shadow damage Umbra or Biohazard's got you covered.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 01:29

Jimmyjazz

Believe me, if you're a

Believe me, if you're a gunner you should have at least one alchemer series gun; as other said, you don't need the valiance since you can have one gun for each type of damage, so you will have, for every type of monster, a gun that will have higher damage against that type, compared to a normal damage one. For the shadow gun, you agree with those that say you don't need the Sentenza; pro and cons of goldmaker for Umbra and Biohazard are right, I anyway prefer the umbra for the charge wich is really useful; i don't know the difference of damage per hit, but i think Umbra deals more damage as it only has 2 shots. And most of all, i suggest switching off the Valiance for an elemental Alchemer, maybe with an UV CTR low or med (same for Umbra, if you decide to take it), and you can choose the Firo one (wich is not that useful in FSC, but you already got the Polaris as elemental gun for that run), the Cryo one (great for crowd control) or the Prisma one (deals slightly more damage, but i think, since you'll have some dmg trinkets for gun, you won't find this one that useful).

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 02:41

Four-Eyes

Since gremlins tend to evade

Since gremlins tend to evade a lot, aren't guns against them kinda useless. I'm still deciding should I get a shadow damage gun or Faust.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 04:13

Fradow

No, while a little harder,

No, while a little harder, guns are not useless against Gremlins.

There are 3 possibilities :
- you want to herd them a lot. Use a Poison Catalyzer, with its slow bullets they will keep dodging backwards. Eventually they will hit a wall so you can kill them easily (very effective to kill menders out of a big pack in arenas). That also means gremlins will not even attack you.
- didn't test it myself, but umbra driver should hit them even when they dodge, because bullets are faster, can someone confirm ?
- use a Callahan, which is piercing so no bonus damage, to reliably hit them. It should knockdown them too.

All options are viable and are actually used.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 07:06

Horizonknight

Why do I have normal damaging weapons?

I have a self imposed challenge of only using two weapon slots (I may use trinkets though).
I bring Normal damage in case there are status stratums where there are too many variances to reliably bring any of the weapon combinations.
@Antiope I realize that the callahan might do a better job, but I honestly think that the sentenza is to be paired with the Divine Avenger. After all, the Sentenza covers the two weakness of the DA.

The question still hasn't really been answered, but I see a lot of people leaning towards the umbra driver and the biohazard.
Question is still up for debate.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 07:28

Juances

Even if you will carry only 2 guns, still there is no need for a normal damage gun. With 2 different types you'll always deal decent damage since each monster type has only 1 weakness.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 07:46

#10

Bopp

Juances is correct

Even with just two weapons, you should consider making them distinct non-normal damage types, so as to deal huge damage to 4/6 of monsters. Of course, if one is a sword and the other a gun, then this means that you must use your sword on certain monsters (the ones that resist your gun) and vice-versa. There are always compromises.

Do not think of the two damage types of the Sentenza as advantages that fill out your DA setup. Think of them as disadvantages, that restrict you from killing certain monsters. Against gremlins and beasts, Sentenza does about 10% more damage than a normal weapon would. Against the other 4/6 of monsters, Sentenza does significantly less damage than a normal weapon would, because these monsters resist half of Sentenza's damage. (Of course, there are other considerations, such as range, speed, and mobility. And status effects. But damage is a key consideration.)

Edit: Maybe your point was that gremlins and beasts are exactly where your DA is weak. But still consider a pure piercing or pure shadow gun. Either one would damage gremlins and beasts at +20%/+0% or +0%/+20% --- about as good as Sentenza's +10%/+10% --- but would also be useful against some other monsters too, giving you some flexibility.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 07:59

#11

Raunwynn

umbra vs. gremlins

i use two different guns vs. gremlins.
blitz needle's charge attack one shots them and will kill two in one shot if they are adjacent when you fire.
umbra driver destroys healers.
healers tend to turn their back on you and then dodge backwards through your bullets.
this forces internal ricochets on them and they are often killed in one volley.
try this with an umbra driver; while herding a large group, fire into the gremlin healers as you pass.
you will be surprised by how quickly they are destroyed.
they either dodge backwards through the bullets and get one-shot or they can't dodge because they are healing the damage of your ricochets on the group.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 11:39

#12

Goldmaker

Umbra charge attack = NO

Umbra charge attack = NO DODGE.. really people test it first at least, stop saying guns are useless against gremlins =/.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 18:49

#13

Zealousd

Shadow guns are stupid.

Shadow guns are stupid. Gremlins will dodge an Umbra most of the time and the catalyzers are stupid to use in practice.

If you want something to help you kill beasts and gremlins, get a Dark Briar Barrage.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 19:28

#14

Goldmaker

@Zealousd "My umbra driver

@Zealousd "My umbra driver and Blitz needle wants to talk with you"

Also
- 1 Umbra Charge attack = OH-KO and dodge DENIED.
- 1 Blitz needle Charge attack = OH-KO ( If hit 50% of the bullets) and Attack canceled.

People stills tinks guns are Underpowered... pew..

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 20:43

#15

Horizonknight

@Zealosd

From my observations, gremlins dodge in a straight line from the attacker. How the heck are guns not worthless against them?
And I'm going to get a catylzer, see if the style fits me, then decide.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:13

#16

Arctic-Fern

Guys don't dodge until after the charged shot is fired.

Gremlins will dodge an Umbra most of the time

Normal shot.
(I dunno if they fixed it recently though. It seems like them gremlins were dodging a ways before so I used to aim charged shots where they are likely to dodge...)

Me = die-hard Umbra fan.
I can't make Catalyzer work better than Umbra's fast projectiles.

I have also stopped using my Polaris in favor of (gasp) Prisma Driver...

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 05:07

#17

Abathur

Goldmaker ... i guess we are

Goldmaker ... i guess we are the only one here that really know something about guns XD I guess there are still may people out there that think swords deal more DpS than guns haha :P how ever:

Goldmaker is totally right with everything. Umbra Driver AND Biohazard are both awesome and pretty much ok against everything. For gremlins, I've not testet Umbra, but I beleve Goldmaker due beeing a great gunslinger. So I just know that Biohazard has an awesome crow control against grems. But the totally killer is Blitz Needle. Blitz Needle outdamages so many guns and swords with its charges, you even can oneshot a mendor including destroing the bubble he casts on himself... It even makes 2000 damage to normal enemies and up to 4000 against fiends and beasts with a charge (!) as gunslinger (!). Also grems are stunlocked while under attack of a BN charge.

- mfg Abathur

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 20:32

#18

Sol-Xii

Those pesky Devilites.

If you have issues against Gremlins, just Callahan them. If you think shadow bullets are too slow, just Callahan them. Sorry Abathur, I prefer Callahan's stunlock. ;) (Yes, Magnus lines can stunlock too.)

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 20:41

#19

Arctic-Fern

Hmm...

From my observations, gremlins dodge in a straight line from the attacker.

Not entirely correct, they dodge by going backwards. This is dependent on where they're facing.

Use guns a bit more and you will see how you can compensate for gremlin dodge (devilite dodge, wolver teleport, etc.) and hit them. If you were using the Antigua/Sentenza then be prepared to do a lot of compensating, though.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 00:37

#20

Abathur

"Sol-Xii: If you have issues

"Sol-Xii: If you have issues against Gremlins, just Callahan them. If you think shadow bullets are too slow, just Callahan them. Sorry Abathur, I prefer Callahan's stunlock. ;) (Yes, Magnus lines can stunlock too.)"

Do you think i don't know that? :P But there are some strats where just every 2nd Callahan shot does stunlock. And thats kinda hard to deal with. BN Charge allways does. Also Callahan is weak compared to Blitz. Callahan does per bullet about 10% more damage than just 1 of the 15 bullets a Blitz Needle charge releases. So you can pew pew and deal 200 or ratatatatata dealing 180 x 15 :P Both are stunlocking, but BN also does it in a wide field, stunlocking multiple targets, while Callahan just can carry 2 (in some strats and good aim up to 4).
Thats why I farly prefer Blitz for true damage and Callahan for fun :3

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 17:57

#21

Sol-Xii

Those blitzing Devilites.

We've had this arguement before. . .
It's just mine and your opinion.
I like one-shotting stunlocking sniper (Callahan) instead of wildly firing off and risking missing and getting hit while unloading. Even with months of BN experience, you can;t always not miss, nobody's that perfect. And the thing about strata, really? Can somebody test that? It would be good for BN to only shoot of one round of bullets at a time like the BTB charge, but it doesn't, so I only use it for fun; opposite of your preference.

E.g.: Tier 1 Wolvers: "Oh noes! Sol with a Blitzy!!! TELEPORT!!!! Sol-Xii (While firing off BN): "HAHAHAHA!!!!!! DIEEEEEEEE!"

Tier 3 Skolvers: "HAHA! With no Blitzy, whatt'll you do now?!?!?!" Sol-Xii (discreetly pulls out a Callahan): "EAT THIS B******!!!"

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 18:10

#22

Goldmaker

@Sol-Xii and @Abathur both

@Sol-Xii and @Abathur both are wrong , the true SUPER DUPER FUN GUN IS POLARIS IN A FULL SWORDMAN PARTY (:trollface:)

This thread its kinda funny, becouse its about shadow guns vs gremmlins.... and piercing guns are better for gremmlins =P . BUT I STILL LOVE YOU UMBRA !

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 18:13

#23

Sol-Xii

Those blasted Devilites.

If we're getting off-topic and talking about fun, to annoy the hell out of your party, use a NITRONOME!!! Screw gun knockback, this'll knock them lumbers around (hopefully mid-attack for those true jerks out there ;) enough to kill your party. Try being the leader to avoid getting kicked. :D

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 18:48

#24

Rangerwillx

Ugh. Blast Bombs..

Damn, I agree Sol-Xii. I was setting up my Electron vortex, ready to kill off those zombies in 1 sweet brandish charge, but then the party leader pulls out his bloody master blast bomb. Of course he knocks all those bloody skellys right out of my vortex. His amazing 150 damage for every bomb was astounding.. problem was that my brandish charge does 800 so... 6 blast bomb charges and he is rocking! -__________-
DAMN BLOODY BLAST BOMBS! Another thing: Go to JK palace, go right next to a blast cube, 3. 2. 1, then you shield bump it right into your party, which causes free heat for you! Yayz!

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 00:23

#25

Abathur

Sol-Xii: Yea there are

Sol-Xii:
Yea there are different gremlin types with the same skin i think ... I just know that its in some levels, sometimes before Bazil and sometimes after Bazil ... So its not just after it ... this is confusing me hard, also the reason why i dont like Callahan anymore that much against mendors :( Was so nice to see them permanently fly :D ... fly upon die xD

however, something you have still to do ... the weekend is coming so ... ADD ME DAMN XD ^^ <3

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:27

#26

Sol-Xii

Ditto ;)

^^^ Basically above.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 19:23

#27

Horizonknight

...

I like it how I already stated what I'm planning to do, yet this thread keeps on living.
Oh well. Should I replace my blaster with a blitz needle then?

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 19:29

#28

Sol-Xii

Those pesky Devilites.

Or a Callahan. Which ever you prefer.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 03:27

#29

Abathur

Blaster is useless :P Blitz

Blaster is useless :P Blitz or Calla are way better. If you wanna safe some recipe cost, pm me xP

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 08:42

#30

Raunwynn

i've been playing around with

i've been playing around with umbra's charge attack against gremlins and wolvers.
goldmaker is right, it works a lot like blitz needle's charge attack.
it doesn't do as much damage as blitz most of the time, but it effectively one shots gremlins.
just one more reason to love umbra.
it smokes those annoying jelly puppies too.

Sun, 10/16/2011 - 22:40

#31

Horizonknight

After testing the Cata for a little bit

I have come to the conclusion that it does not fit my style of gun play. I rarely use charge attacks, so the gun isn't going to work too well.

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Shadow Guns (Any other suggestions is fine)