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Energy inflation and newbies.

7 replies [Last post]
Sun, 04/10/2011 - 18:35
Zedoshi
Legacy Username

Posted in general discussion too, but this is a more...professional place.

Objectives. When you completed them, you got a free mist tank for the tutorial objectives. I'm sure they're going to use objectives in the future more, but just in case.....

Once a day. You get an objective to do something, anything. Maybe reach the 8th floor (After going through 1-7 of course) twice, or maybe go to the arena's end twice. After you finish the objectives, you get a mist tank that expires in a decent amount of time. I'm thinking 3 hours is enough to use any mist energy you have at the moment you finish. Either way, make it temporary to prevent people saving them up.

Make this available only to people in tier 1 people or something. This is a suggestion ONLY to keep this inflation crap from scaring off new people. If you do tier 1 runs that have both an arena AND graveyard/treasure room, you would still barely be able to buy 100 more energy if it's at 5k+ crowns. And you expect all newbies to be able to instantly research what the best places to farm are, and do it mindlessly and repeat until you finally build up enough extra to upgrade one item?

Sorry, but screw you. Purchasing energy with real money should be for people wanting to do more, NOT a requirement to begin playing. Who pays for a game they just started? That's just stupid.

Anyway, I don't want argument on my view of your energy. Just opinions on this suggestion.

Sun, 04/10/2011 - 19:25
#1
Providence
Legacy Username
First of all, it costs money

First of all, it costs money to keep the servers running. On any given day, look at how many servers are up--that's going to cost a pretty penny. Casual players really only need 100 ME a day; they can play a few floors if they have time, or they can choose to craft something on a day they don't have a lot of time. Using your "objectives" system on T1 players doesn't make a lot of sense because they don't need more than 100 CE to run that tier; furthermore, if they know they can get mist tanks from these quests, they will never buy CE with crowns, let alone buy CE with money.

Better equipment requires a lot of grinding--and that costs OOO money because it's expensive server time. You'll notice that the 4 and 5* equipment costs more CE but provides much better protection than lower * equipment. Theoretically, T2 is the cutoff for free, casual players: if you want to be able to play T3 effectively, you will have to spend a lot of time (a little bit every day) getting crowns to buy CE to craft items. OR, you can pay real money to support the game and get better equipment slightly faster (you'll still have to find the materials etc).

Essentially, it's a trade off between time and money. You mentioned something about newbies researching the best places to farm for mats or crowns----if those people are going to be farming, they're eating up valuable server time.

OOO is running a business; I understand that you're frustrated with the current energy model, but I think your suggestions would make this game far too expensive for OOO to sustain. I would hate to see the game fail because the cost of running it was too high.

Sun, 04/10/2011 - 20:15
#2
cheeserito
Legacy Username
I think what Zedoshi is

I think what Zedoshi is saying is perfectly reasonable. Maybe not make it a daily thing, but a weekly thing, though? Otherwise, I think it's a pretty great idea, especially with the price of CE creeping up in the market.

And having it be Tier1 only makes great sense, and I don't think it would hinder them from ever buying CE. I mean, really, if they're seriously into this game, I doubt they'd want to stay on Tier1 forever. But having the mist tank rewards (like what you get from completing the tutorial and making it to Tier2) would be great for people just starting out.

Also, I think maybe extending the expiration on them would be better, simply because not everyone has 4 hours a day to play. Like, they might get their mist tank reward for completing their objective, and then have to log off to do homework, or go to work. Either giving them a week or two before it expires or putting a cap on the amount one can have at any time would probably be a better solution.

Tbh, I can only get 2.5k if I solo a run in Tier1, and I get even less when other people are with me. So with the prices at 3.5k, they're not really going to be able to do much of anything. Because it takes 60 energy to do a Tier1 run, assuming you don't die. Your remaining 40 energy wouldn't be enough to do a full run, but if you wanted more crowns you do 2/3 of a run, and only barely have enough to get 100 CE.

You get one mist tank when you complete the tutorial, yes, so that would give you another 100 energy for free, but it would essentially have the same problem. You'd get around 3k for all that energy, which wouldn't even be enough to get another 100 CE. And not everyone wants to drop money into a "F2P" game, especially in the beginning.

Sun, 04/10/2011 - 21:29
#3
Providence
Legacy Username
I'm sorry you feel that way,

I'm sorry you feel that way, but the point is that in a "free" to play game, not everything is free. That is simply what the business model is. I personally think that your suggestions might make the game unprofitable, as people would be able to game that system and never need purchase CE.

Sun, 04/10/2011 - 21:38
#4
Negimasonic's picture
Negimasonic
Forget it providence, visit

Forget it providence, visit the thread on the main forums, some of us are trying to make this idea workable, about how to make it so you can't game the system, or at the very least how to make it fair to everyone. See what you think of the suggestions that have been made there (since this thread has gone wayyyyy off).

Sun, 04/10/2011 - 22:11
#5
cheeserito
Legacy Username
I guess I did misinterpret

I guess I did misinterpret it? I don't know, I don't think you understood what I said? xD Like, I got that it wouldn't disappear after they "activated" it, but what if they forgot to "activate" it before logging off? Then it would expire and all the work they put into getting it would have been for naught. I don't think them playing only on the weekend or whatever would necessarily kill the CE market, because they'd only be Tier1. And really, at that point, they'd probably want to move on to Tier2 anyway, as the max they could possibly have in a week is 7 mist tanks. > u >

And 1400 mist tank energy in a week is more than enough to get ready for Tier2, plus you can't trade mist tanks or mist energy, so it's not like they'd really put a dent in the CE market. Because really, if they stay in Tier1 they're just hurting themselves by not allowing themselves to experience all the content in the game.

Also, your 100 mist energy regenerates over the course of 22 hours, not 24. Just an fyi. c:

Mon, 04/11/2011 - 12:13
#6
Jalok's picture
Jalok
Here is my suggestion, hopefully it could balance things out...

TOPIC: Possible Solution that may help with the expensive CE prices. Here is what I half to say, and how players can take part of this

A lot of F2P members are really disappointed with the in-game currency prices to buy CE. So far it may or has gotten to 4k per 100 CE. But how in the heck are they still giving in? There are few possible reasons. The F2P member is freakin rich and has a unique strategy and selling skills, therefore at the end they could afford the expensive price. The other reason I think most likely is the the causing of Merch Clans.

What is the Merch Clan you ask?
They are are a group of people who try and raise the price a little each time to make it difficult for F2P members to have no choice to but give in. Their strategy is to purposely sell the CE for high amounts of crowns. They would leave the offer there for a while, if no one buys it, it is ok for them, the merch member buys his/her own CE to themselves, they are just leaving it there to slowly increase the price, which therefore convincing the market to unnecessarily go up.
If you played Runescape and did lots of trading in the Grand Exchange, you know what I am talking about. People would sell their products and then buy their products again, but in high price to make the stocks go up significantly on purpose, therefore convincing F2P members to have no choice but to give in pay the outrageous prices.

I am a F2P member, how do I get more CE then?
+ Ask around (Friends, guild members, other people, etc.), ask others that you are willing to pay the reasonable price. There has to be a caring P2P member willing to sell their CE in a reasonable price (2500c to 2700c = pretty cheap, 2700c to 3000c = reasonable price, 3000c to 3400c = A little over the top, but alright). Basically, F2P members try to get the pretty cheap price or reasonable price, going for 3000c and above is last resort.

(P2P members read this) P2P members, try to convince your F2P customers to pay you 3000c per 100CE (since it takes 8 depths (not counting the checkpoints) to earn about 2900c, also don't forget the user may loose a life or spend energy on a arena battle too), if you go around the 2.7k-3k limit you got an alright deal. If you go to the 2.5k-2.7k limit, your very generous. If you go to the 3k-3.3+k limit, your a really good convincing seller. Don't forget, your buyer may not have all the money to pay for the 100 CE, so could you accept matz as substitutes?

+ Don't have the crowns to pay for the CE your seller is offering? See if they would accept materials instead.
+ If all else fails, go and leave at least 2.8k in the "trading" CE store exchange thingy (0_o don't know what it is exactly called). Hopefully the price would go down, if everyone uses this those previous tactics I have put up there. If you absolutely can't wait to get your CE and you somehow have crazy amount of crowns, you then buy that ridiculous price.

What I view in a F2P game is a balance between P2P and F2P players. It would suck that the F2P market would dominate the P2P market, and vice versa. That is why it is important that the F2P and P2P members needs to find a equal balance (for both F2P and P2P members can both agree on) when it comes to buying energy in the the CE market. Another way for things could be balanced is allowing players to receive larger amounts of crowns in the arcade than ever before, but I don't know if they would do that.
Also another way to minimize the crazy prices is track down whoever is a merch member and report them! They are ruining with the value of CE!

If there is any suggestions to improve the balance between the F2P and P2P member market, please do share them. I mean, after all this game is F2P and I am assuming that a F2P game is helping both P2P and F2P players to be happy with reasonable offers. =/

Mon, 04/11/2011 - 13:16
#7
Zedoshi
Legacy Username
So...

That's nice and all Matoro, except you got the topic completely wrong, thus making your entire rant invalid.

The topic is how to help new people joining not be affected by the rising market fixing towards high levels without having to resort to only playing an hour a day then quitting.

New players are the topic. Not everyone else. They can deal with it, and just spend more wisely, since they make enough.

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