Spiral Knights - If Shadow Keys are consumables..

If Shadow Keys are consumables..

16 replies [Last post]

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:45

Keda

..As a means to keep access to Shadow Lairs low.

Then can we have it changed that Shadow Lair gear has significantly (ie prohibitively ) expensive unbind costs?

We're not even a week out from the update and Shadow Lair gear is already being sold by the people who've either shelled out with their wallet or have quietly amassed large quantities of cash.

I hold no grudge against them for doing this.

But it's a fairly safe bet to say that they are buying keys off the market and not gambling with the boxes themselves to keep their profit margins sustainable.

I thought the whole point of elite armor was as a reward for being able to complete this ultra hard content.

Yaaaaay updates.

I won't go into specifics, but this behavior pretty much tanks most of the arguments for the current implementation of Shadow Keys.

Have a good night folks.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:53

Zinqf

Economically....

You'd be funding their ability to continuously run through buying gear pieces.

If OOO were rewarding JUST skill with armor pieces, they'd have a system which they wouldn't be making HUGE bank atm...

Every attempt to describe any unfairness with this shadow key system is negated by each and every person paying into the system. And the hypocrites QQing about shadow keys in one breath and applying into the giveaway with the next are far more negating to issue.

As long as OOO is making huge profits (which they are), the company consensus is that the system is extremely successful (because its paying out).

Remember that silly people were QQing about CE being less than 1/350th as bad as it is atm. So right now, OOO will look at the feedback and acknowledge its' existance...but laugh wholeheartedly after reading the posts (Assuming the audience are the same people, which it isn't).

TLDR - OOO is gaining alot more positively than negatively from this system atm. Until that changes, your voice on the forum means NOTHING no matter how correct your end of the issue is.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:29

Driggan

Honestly, this isn't even a

Honestly, this isn't even a big problem, considering that the armor pieces are mostly pretty garbage. Their real use seems to be costumes, which are mostly for those who cash-in huge amounts of money anyway.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:54

Bangslash

OOO is making huge profits?

"As long as OOO is making huge profits (which they are),"

Whirled: Millions of USD lost. ( http://freetoplay.biz/2010/03/08/monetizing-your-game-outside-of-sponsor... )

OOO Facebook games: Multiple games, all flopped.

CEO Daniel James on his salary in 2009: "I didn't get paid last year, but it's still worth it."

Puzzle Pirates: In decline. Has been declining for years.

Spiral Knights: Released this year. Steam players have dropped from 6-12k online to 1-3k in just a few months. Over 2/5ths of the Steam players that have reached Moorcraft Manor haven't managed to get tier two clearance...and most Steam players don't even reach Moorcraft Manor. Those people aren't in the market for 4+ star gear.

Dr. Who World's In Time: The BBC was hoping to release screenshots a few months ago--but didn't--so this one is looking late.

----

Sooooo....what part of OOO looks like huge profits to you?

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:57

Dirty-Harry

Speaking of Shadow Keys, has

Speaking of Shadow Keys, has anyone noticed that around 10 of them got put up on AH at the same time, same starting bid (50k) with no buyout? It doesn't seem like coincidence to me.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 01:47

Starlinvf

@Dirty-Harry: Players pull

@Dirty-Harry: Players pull crap like that all the time. A lot of people were looking for shadow keys with intent to sell, so it wouldn't surprise me of someone bought them for less then that and put it up in the AH to see how high it would go.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 02:25

Zinqf

@ Bangslash

Bringing up history has nothing to do with whats going on right now. If their actions "right now" had a negative impact, there would have been a change in design intent. There isn't a change in design intent, so things are going positively for OOO "right now".

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 02:33

Pawn

@ Dirty-Harry--@ Starlinvf

Yes, i noticed this. There were 2 shadow keys on the market for about 12 hours (bid only) with high starting bids. Then about 10 of them got put up at the same time for low bid 50k no buyout.

Players putting up items (particularly an item such as this) would generally post a buyout to get the money sooner than later. This is doubly true when you take into account that generally all 'rare' items such as this depreciate at a dramatically fast. (look at ghostly aura, lockboxes, FoV, etc, etc).

Furthermore, it sounds as if Starlinvf may be hinting that it was a collusion by players (i could be wrong about you hinting as such) which would make no sense, considering it would just reduce the value of the items.

Long story short. I agree 100% with what Dirty-Harry did not say. Pretty obvious really. And even lamer too.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 05:55

Sunless

If their actions "right now"

If their actions "right now" had a negative impact, there would have been a change in design intent. There isn't a change in design intent, so things are going positively for OOO "right now".

That logic is inherently flawed. In essence, something not going well does not invoke change. If you accept there are those who change under issue, you must also accept that there are those who don't. [In regards to OOO] Given there is no concrete evidence that supports either argument, it is ultimately speculation.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:00

Bangslash

"Bringing up history has

"Bringing up history has nothing to do with whats going on right now."

The decline in the number of people playing Puzzle Pirates is happening right now.

The decline in the number of people playing Spiral Knights is happening right now.

Doctor Who is, right now, behind the schedule the BBC stated earlier this year.

"If their actions "right now" had a negative impact, there would have been a change in design intent."

OOO has been doing changes.

Puzzle Pirates has been tweaked repeatedly. The playerbase sees the changes as half-hearted at best and the changes have only slowed Puzzle Pirate's decline somewhat.

Spiral Knights is also being tweaked, and those changes aren't having the desired effects. The two PVP modes are only midly popular, despite awarding in game prizes. And now we have the Shadow Key kerfluffle, which has p.o.'ed quite a few.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:01

#10

Kazham

The Logical Sense

Now, let us thing rationally here. It only makes sense for the keys to be consumed on use! Here, I have two scenarios for you;
1. The Shadow Lair is a scary place, a really, really scary place. Well jeez, I've never seen my knight eat before, and people eat when their nervous. Hence, the knight eats the keys!
2. You put the key into the lock on the elevator, expecting it not to actually DO ANYTHING. But! When the gate actually unlocks, your knight FLIPS OUT! He rips the key right out of the lock... breaking it.

Jeez! Isn't it obvious?

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:39

#11

Algol-Sixty

Sooooo....what part of OOO

Sooooo....what part of OOO looks like huge profits to you?

Indeed. OOO isn't going belly up, but it isn't the next blizzard or Zynga. At its peak, right after coming on steam, Spiral Knights had more players than Puzzle Pirates ever had, but it was a short lived peak. Puzzle Pirates has, indeed, been declining for years, but the way things are going, Spiral Knights won't have years to decline. The number of players on SK is not much more, and often less than YPP and SK hasn't even been out for a year now.

The SK team is doing a [crap] job of keeping new players around. The high exchange rate of cr to CE is part of the problem, the really weak introduction of the unfamiliar CE system to new players is another large part of the problem. The SK team is coming off as desperately greedy, in part by their focus on lots of direct CE sinks instead of crown sinks that create an indirect CE sink. OOO could convert all the CE sinks in haven to crown sinks and end up with just as much CE sunk, but in a way that appears to not be so greedy. Every crown fountained into the game requires energy to be sunk by elevators. If 50% off that energy spent on elevators (and revives) is CE and not ME, then OOO can sink just as much CE by changing all CE sinks in haven to crowns at about a 7.5k-10k cr per 100CE.

Converting CE sinks in haven to CR sinks would drop the cr<->CE exchange rate, making it better for new players, while high end players would have to raise a lot more crowns to advance. This solves the problem of new players being frustrated by limited game play, while also solving the problem people running into the end game too quickly. The best part is that there would be a self-balancing nature to it. The more people try to buy their way into the end game, the lower the cr<->CE exchange rate would get, thus making it easier for lots of F2P. The more F2P there are, the higher the cr<->CE exchange rate, thus making it easier for P2P players to skip grinding. Lots of players means more word of mouth advertising, which is vastly more cost effective than banner ads. Lots of players makes the PvP part of the game far more fun. Lots of players makes the AH prices fluctuate less (seriously, a factor of 10 variation in the prices of stuff sold over a few minutes? gah).

Spiral Knights is a fun game, I hope OOO wakes up and changes things so it can be viable in another year.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:01

#12

Bopp

I'm missing something

Where do you people get your subscription numbers for Three Rings games? Isn't that a carefully protected trade secret? For example, how do you know that the player base of Spiral Knights is declining?

I'm not saying that you're wrong; I'm just saying that I want to see the evidence that you're right.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:42

#13

Algol-Sixty

Where do you people get your

Where do you people get your subscription numbers for Three Rings games?

For spiral knights, each gate shows the number of players in the gate. You can guess at the number of players in each haven, times the number of havens. PvP tells you how many players in there.

For YPP, see: Puzzle Pirates Server Status and for longer term numbers, see Glowie Ocean activity tracker

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:45

#14

Bopp

right

Right. So at any given time, you know how many people are in the Clockworks and PvP, and you can guess at Havens. This gives you the number of people currently playing, which is valuable. Is there some way to extrapolate to the number of people who play regularly?

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:49

#15

Sunless

Steam shows the amount of

Steam shows the amount of players for every game that is being played [on Steam].

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:52

#16

Algol-Sixty

Is there some way to

Is there some way to extrapolate to the number of people who play regularly?

That is harder to tell, both for SK and YPP. You can get an idea from the PvP leader board by taking an alt in and playing only one game. The number of people on the leader board after a day is about a third of the number after a week, IIRC.

Also, judging by the number of ringer names that pop up for SK, I it looks like there are significantly more developers for SK than YPP. I'm sure SEGA gets a cut for "publishing" SK, and steam gets a cut from their users. All in all, SK appears to have a *MUCH* higher overhead than YPP.

At this point in YPP's development, YPP was still growing. I wish that was true for SK.

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If Shadow Keys are consumables..