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charge stones for swords

28 replies [Last post]
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:20
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox

It would be good if you could pick your charge attack for your sword. giving a variety of additional options. charged stones will replace your swords charge attack to another of your choice, charge attacks like ones you already have on swords and ones like the below ideas.

1-unleashes a wave that inflicts a status, for fire, a spreading flame, for poison spreading spores, ice, a blow of icy wind, stun, blowing sand and so on
2- a charge that thrusts forwards through enemies knocking them all over the place.
3- user is teleported behind the enemy and unleashes an attack that does extra damage, while avoiding hits. ( cannot teleport over gaps or where ground is impassible)

Charged stones would be different on swords, but bombs will obviously remain unaffected (some guns have specific charge to fit them, and should be left alone). the charge time should always remain the same, and its strength and range, should be increasded by the swords star rating, swords with a charge stone should keep it when alchemised, its power should increase to its star. when sword that already has high star rating is equiped with a charge stone the charge stone should still be affected, e.g.

1 star- weak range, strength and status
2 star- lesser range, strength and staus
3 star- medium range, strength and status
4 star- strong range, strength and status
5 star- great range strength and status

They could be obtained by;

1- purchassed from a merchant (preferred idea).
2- obtained from alchemy.
3- ironlockbox

Stones will allow us to adapt our swords charge attack to our liking, also adding effect to its hilt.
Not a bad idea right?

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:31
#1
Oakgear's picture
Oakgear
Nope

Sorry, but this can get real OP

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:45
#2
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
yes its a good idea.

what do you mean by OP? and what makes it a bad idea? if you have a reason, say it. if you dont , you dont really argue a good point at all.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 09:26
#3
Juances's picture
Juances
say what?

With just one sword, you'd cover all posssible status, making the different brandish paths useless.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 09:43
#4
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
obviously

youd only be able to eqiup one obviously. it would be like a accessory for swords. sometimes simple ideas can make big differences. anyway swords are kind of outranked by guns and bombs, this would even it up.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 09:57
#5
Juances's picture
Juances
let's try again

1) mixing a fire weapon with ice orb= super multi-status weapon/ grabbing a non-status powerfull weapon + orb= lots of power
2)get a flourish and you'll get the thrusts forward
3)teleporting will fail againts a lot of enemies(specially on T3)+the fact that you avoid their attacks could be considered overpowered

"it would be like a accessory for swords" Accesories are a cosmetic thing.

All i want to say instead of getting one weapon and change it's charge you could simply get a different weapon altogether and you'll be fine.
Each charge/status effect is balanced according to the weapon it belongs.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 01:55
#6
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
yes, but....

i dont fancy that, cus that means changing the WHOLE status, though i agree with you on the status bit. but then maybe they should be affected by the swords own status, e.g.

flame sword + status charge stone = flame sword with flame charge attack

either that or simply replace the swords status, if this is too complicated then the one above.

that eleporting idea isnt a must, its a example of the fact you get different charge stones.
And i said "would be like" meaning similar to it. its easy to tell that its not a accessory itself.
I can see where your coming from but sorting the problem out is actually quite easy, a few tweaks here and there are all it takes. people have been recently posting how some weapons have a annoyingly bad charge attack. adding charge stones to swords also means that everyones sword can be different, people get annoyed when everyone has the exact same thing as them.

Other posts, are already agreeing with this. one of which says someone qiut the game because everyone was the same.
A taste of the different.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 17:20
#7
Marazo's picture
Marazo
" anyway swords are kind of

" anyway swords are kind of outranked by guns and bombs, this would even it up."

swords are not really outranked with their tempting high DPS. if there was to be this charge stone idea, it should be for all wepons so not just all the people walking around in full vog will benefit. for bombs there could be status, after detonations, increased knockback and soforth. Guns, mutiple projectiles, status, split, and rebound.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 00:19
#8
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
ok, for all weapons then.

ok, for all weapons then. except bombs, they cant really be anything since the charge is the bomb.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 16:17
#9
Marazo's picture
Marazo
well gee...THX a lot....great

well gee...THX a lot....great way to promote weapon balancing and its gonna be so helpful to me, because since i have the MAD BOMBER set and i really only use swords and guns....(hope u noticed the sarcasm in there, if not, look at it for a good 5 minutes) Bombs dont even have a normal attk, they just have charge, so when you use a bomb, you are using its charge. Therefore, the CHARGE stones should apply for bombs too. Ive gotta say, bombs are the least used wepon among beginners, among more experinced players..im not sure. As i said before, thing the stones could give for bombs are: Status, after detonations (imagine...BOOM..boom boom, so small explosions after the initial detonation.), increased knockback, more range, and small suction before detonation(after the its planted enemies move ever so slightly towards the bomb, not as good as graviton)
So yeah, im just trying to protect me, and the other 1/8 of players who commited their time and money to get demo armour, and want in on this idea too

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 00:12
#10
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
maybe for bombs they should

maybe for bombs they should increase the strength or something then, cus to use them you have to charge it anyway. changing the charge attack is going to change the entire attack. you may as well make a bomb. but if stones are going to be used on bombs as well, maybe it could just give the bomb a boost. or the bomb could have a second state of charge;
-1st charged, in use
-2nd charged, extra damage.

there's no need to get annoyed, if there's a problem it would be easier if you could mull it over yourself to give a solution and come up with new idea's.
but now all three weapon types will have charge stones its good right?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 00:29
#11
Plaguerider's picture
Plaguerider
I see someone has been

I see someone has been looking at the Diablo III runestones. It is a fun and interesting idea though :3

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 08:18
#12
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
whats Diablo III? i honestly

whats Diablo III? i honestly dont know, i just come up with theese ideas when im mulling the game over, but ty for the opinion. i know most people are ok with their swords charge attack but if you could change to something else surely you would.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:01
#13
Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
DiabloII and a hand full of

DiabloII and a hand full of other games use a Socket/Rune system to modify weapons, with a hard limit based on number of sockets and location on the item. Traditionally you would simply find weapons with bonuses, but sockets will let you purposely add a particular bonus via runes (which you need to find), or even extract them in some cases. In more high tech game lore this is usually done using non-linear part upgrades, with several parallel options.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:33
#14
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
i see. then maybe this should

i see. then maybe this should be a kind of rune stone that imbews the weapon with a new charge attack. or some kind of new variant slot.
either way, it would help to make every knight indivigual.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 23:39
#15
Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
It wouldn't. Like any

It wouldn't. Like any mechanical change, some abilities are going to be better applied, or just plain better then others.

For instance... Fang of Vog is essentially a modified Calibur. But to offset the strong fire, you can actually set yourself on fire by using the charge attack. Same effect, but put that on a DA. Even without a full spin, the ability to set things on fire, push back, and deal damage all at the same time tips its abilities way out of proportion.

Same thing, only with a Triglav. Changing the effect from freeze to fire doesn't help it one bit.

The moral of the story is this. Adding a mechanical change won't make people want to be individuals. It'll actually worsen the situation since instead of having DA wielding wolvers all over the place, you'll have Flaming DA Wolvers all over the place. And god help you if you enable a 360 spin on ANY of the heavy swords.

Wed, 11/16/2011 - 12:24
#16
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
Ive already said that a

Ive already said that a charge stone will change and shape to the sword... a fire sword+charge stone= flame sword with variant charge attack.

it changes the attack to something else, visual completly and status completly, visual would not change to sword like stats.
the charge stone is already set for you, all you have to do is talk to a new eqqiupping merchant or Bechamel and pay to adapt your sword or bomb.
different charge stone for different weapon type, bombs swords and guns.
you can always change your sword is not a good answer to this, everything changes then and if theres a particular sword you want and a particular charge attack, you will always get the benefit of the choice of both.
boms outrank swords as they hit multiple enemies
guns outrank swords as they cover distances.
swords are good when it comes to a large slow moviing enemy and things that dodge. but those that can dodge can be taken down as easily with bombs. guns will give you a nice safe distance.
Swords dont do hardly any extra damage, so they are outranked.
charge stones wont tip the scales for the sword either as the strength still depends on the sword.
also, only one stone can be eqiuped at a time, if you eqiup another one it simply goes over the prvious one which is destroyed.

Wed, 11/16/2011 - 14:02
#17
Fropps's picture
Fropps
Three

you get three selections when you bind the weapon to you. Each option is unique to each weapon as so to avoid super-powered weapons.

Wed, 11/16/2011 - 14:43
#18
Arilys's picture
Arilys
Wow...

"Swords dont do hardly any extra damage, so they are outranked."

Compare the damage that a Divine Avenger or Gran Faust or any other 5 star sword does with the damage that a 5 star bomb or gun do. Then I want you to see if swords barely do more damage than guns and bombs <.<

And I don't know if I'd want this. I mean, those things would make PvP even more prone to whining players. Imagine:

Player X has a Voltedge with a rune thingy that increases the chance and/or severity of the Shock status. Now, Boltbrand already has a Good chance to cause Strong Shock each time we use the charge attack. With the rune, one or both things could be increased, and that's something that would annoy a LOT of people in LockDown.

Same things with bombs, especially the status ones: Voltaic Tempest's Shock would last longer/be stronger, Ash of Agni's Fire would last longer/be stronger, etc.

And all that would be even worse with all the UVs that people already have. And we all know that there are already a lot of players posting threads about banning Trinkets/UVs from LockDown.

Long story short, I don't think that implementing the runes to put on weapons would be such a good idea..

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 10:42
#19
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
swords are outranked, with

swords are outranked, with other weapons, espicially guns your sitting pretty, they cant get to you immediatly if theres a gap. swords, you get swamped, your shield brakes, your stuck in the middle getting thworted. swords do need something a little extra to keep you alive. swords tend to come in handy against wolvers and small amounts of enemies, maybe a few bosses but it kind of ends there. so we will forget this bit now and move on, its not about it.
IVE ALREADY said, that the charge stone, changes to the sword. its only the charge attack that is modified so normal attacks will stay the same, staus's for example.
the charge attacks would be similar to other swords, theyre not going to be overly powerfull, they give more choice. so it wouldnt mess up lockdown, unless ordinary sword charge attacks are already recking it? no?
point to make, you like your swords charge attack? good, you can keep it. its a option, an addition to choices. doenst necesarily have to be just for swords and i know it wont help balance it much anyway, and also many swords id be happy to keep them the same so this isnt just apllying to me.

And i swear there has been posts in the past about changing particular charge attacks on swords.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 10:08
#20
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
also, it would need energy to

also, it would need energy to eqiup it to the sword. more energy usage for OOO. should be qiute high, like 800ce. no more then 1500ce though.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:09
#21
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
PLUS...

heres an idea, adapting charge stones to other weapons would be difficult,but if they were a little different then it wouldnt, simply applying a certain bonus or something simlar like that would be better applied.

if charge stones do not come into the game there should at least tbe something a little extra for swords. like a multiple targeting system that allows you to jump between targets to stop yourself being overwhelmed or hit from behind.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 12:30
#22
Blaze-Breaker
You're kidding about sword being outranked, right?

You're quite the comedian, you know? Little old me only equips two swords and two bombs, and those two bombs are an Electron Bomb and SMB, so damage is not the priority with those. Swording is about making sure an enemy will not hit you, and then striking, at least for me. If you're having trouble about being surrounded, I'd recommend using the charge attack of a Calibur line, and no one complains about slimes or lumbars or (non en-masse) gun puppies in T3, it's the monsters that DODGE we have trouble with. Sides, each sword is unique in its own way, and I wouldn't love to see my swords turn into what essentially become templates for normal attacks, or lose the unique themes present in some of them. 'Sides, do you realize that swords such as the Gran Faust, the ones with crappy charge attacks but extremely dangerous normal attack will become OP?

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 15:52
#23
Autofire's picture
Autofire
I sense 5 possibilities here

I sense 5 possibilities here when you say swords are bad:

You are joking.
You are trolling.
You are a T1 player.
You have never touched a (proper)sword in your short life, and therefore can't make correct comparisons.
You are the worst swordsman ever and assume that all swords are fails because you can't use one.

Swords do way more damage than guns. For example I can kill a gun puppy very fast with my lvl10 vile striker. Using my lvl10 firo driver, it takes 5 or 10 seconds more to kill it. Another thing you fail to take into account is the fact that when you attack with a sword, you have a very high chance of interrupting the enemy's actions. (this does depend on the sword, though.) The vile striker may do pitiful damage per hit, but it does so many hits that if all of it's hits connect in one combo, you'll be doing more damage that a Gran Faust against jellies. The charge may be risky, but that's what makes it fun.

If you override the charge, you'll be making a mistake. Some swords have a crappy charge for a reason. This reason is that the sword's normal attacks/combos are good enough to warrant not needing a good charge. You have a sword with a good combo and then give it a good charge, and look at what you got: some killer swords and even more whiners asking for whatever object is needed for them because you can't have a good sword unless you can change it's charge.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 20:07
#24
Dark-Flare's picture
Dark-Flare
-1

Charge attacks make certain swords unique. Allowing other swords to access other charge attacks would lead to people using only one type of sword+stone getup (as mentioned by Starlinvf), thus the flaming DA charge spammers.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 23:54
#25
Nodocchi's picture
Nodocchi
I like the idea but I don't

I like the idea but I don't think Sizuki was very clear about it and people may be misinterpreting the idea. Here is how I am seeing it:

1. Charge stones modify a sword's entire charge attack, so for example if you put a charge stone on a DA instead of shooting out three swords on it's charge attack the DA might shoot out a circular explosion resembling the Brandish line's charge attack. (Depends on the charge stone you put on it)

2. Damage types for the charge attack are inherited from the sword you are using but status effects come from the particular charge stone. Admittedly this will make some statuses more desirable than others but isn't that already the case?

3. Charge times are defined by the charge stone.

4. I can imagine charge stones behaving differently depending on which class of swords you put it on. (i.e. Heavy, normal, fast)

Depending on how OOO balances the kinds of charge attacks that are possible to obtain I can see this as something that adds an interesting new element to the game. Might be even more interesting if you can swap charge attacks on the fly, can certainly make for some fun mayhem in Lockdown.

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 09:34
#26
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
yeah thanks nodocchi. im not

yeah thanks nodocchi. im not good at explaining things. basically a new charge attack overwrites the current one. and it would be qiuet a lot to do this so people wont keep doing this.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 03:11
#27
Truespiral
I understand your viewpoint but...

Like what others have been saying, this will make the game too unbalanced as:

I can take the strongest swords like DA, GF, Sudaruska, etc. They have great damage for they're normal strikes and then now you want to make they're charge better? If you want a certain charge attack, why not get that certain sword instead?

Plus I have read your previous comments and you are very biased toward the idea that swords are underpowered. That is not the case as almost everyone can agree that swords dish out the highest dps (Unless you have a huge mob like in the last room of an arena, where a bomb would shine, however most places aren't small+cramped as an arena).

Plus you say that swords can't get to guns immediately because of the gap. DURRRR its a melee vs a ranged weapon. Its supposed to be that way. Guns have the range advantage but swords should have the damage advantage. Bombs have mob advantage.

"you get swamped, your shield brakes, your stuck in the middle getting thworted"

So you're saying everyone else doesn't get that? An experienced play should try to avoid that situations at all costs. Sure gunners stay at a distance and are less likely to fall prey to such situations but bombers on the other hand get it too, as they run up to mobs to lay bombs. PLUS a full bomber stuck in a mob is pretty much dead compared to a swordsman who can still attack. Also, with gunners, there are those monsters who dodge projectiles. You don't see swords being dodged.

OR if you truly want this to be implemented, then if the charged can be improved, then the normal attack must be nerfed accordingly. So if you get a Gran Faust that can do the triple explosions of an Acheron, then a good nerf for the normal swing would be no knockback.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 09:54
#28
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
ah i see, you mean like a

ah i see, you mean like a striker charge attack with a gran faust. i admit that that is an issue. perhaps every sword reqiures something different? or heres a thought, what if we could upgrade the charge attack along with our swords. different branches for each one, separatly of course though. for example a 4 star may of kept the charge from a its 2 star years. power and charge time would adjust.

yeah i mean mainly in arena's the sword is useless. but for those rounds say when your facing rounds of enemies. i know swords dont work with enemies that deal heavy amounts of damag, qiuckly, swiftly. you can still get overun with swords and bombs i know that, but keeping your distance keeps you alive. with swords you have to keep up close in the first place. i do try to avoid it, hit and run tactics are what i do. but if we may forget this bit that would be most helpfull. i know ive made a slight mistake here, but on no acount do i view charge stones as a bad idea.

if you still disagree with this idea, fine, but see if you can look into it, see if youve got a an idea for this. would be most helpfull.

i now see where people are coming from, the issues with the original idea. but i still stand by that it would be great if we could choose our charge attacks.

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