Spiral Knights - Need help changing from gunner-> swordsman

Need help changing from gunner-> swordsman

18 replies [Last post]

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 10:26

Cyatose

I recently decided to make the shift to using swords, but I have never played with anything other than guns since I started. I'm looking for advice on the most efficient and energy conservative way to phase out my gear from gunner to swordsman, and I am also looking for tips on the sword play style, since I almost no experience with the weapons.

My current gear:
Miracle Hood
Grey Owlite Shield
Sunset Duster

Prisma Driver
Shadow Driver
Strike Needle
Avenger
(I only have 3 weapon slots, I made the Avenger when I first decided to use swords just to get in a little practice, so it is currently replacing the strike needle.)

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 10:44

Bopp

equipment

Keep Grey Owlite. Upgrade Miracle Hood to Divine Veil. Build Skolver Coat from scratch. Then you have a great general-purpose armor set. Later, you can get more Skolver, Vog Cub, etc.

Upgrade Avenger to Divine Avenger. Get either Barbarous Thorn Blade or Final Flourish. Get either Acheron or Gran Faust. Then you have your three swords.

If you like FSC, then upgrade Strike Needle to Blitz Needle. Consider also Shivermist Buster.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 11:23

Bopp

playing tips

Sword playing tips is a huge topic. Probably many of the tips are analogous to gunning tips. Of course you should read the Swordsmaster's Guide and check out some YouTube videos.

One aspect is the interaction between sword and shield (shield canceling). Play around with swinging and shielding, mixing them in various ways, until you get a feel for how they interact. And practice interrupting combos. Different swords (e.g. Sealed vs. Brandish vs. Flourish) can have very different feels --- a charming feature of Spiral Knights. By the way, there is no reason to restrict yourself to one feel, unless of course you like it. I mean, I have no trouble switching among them. Hence my equipment advice above.

Another aspect is the danger inherent in getting right next to a monster. Consider charging a lot. A sword charge attack is halfway between a melee attack and a ranged attack, in that you run away from the monster while charging, and only approach the monster to deliver the attack. Don't charge a Cutter-line sword, though.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:50

Glowing-Ember

I use the charge on WHB quite

I use the charge on WHB quite often, even in tier 3.

You just need to know when to use it.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:58

Bopp

Cutter? consult Glowing-Ember

If you do get a Cutter-line sword for some reason, consult Glowing-Ember, not me, on how to use it. :)

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 15:56

Avixi

As far as I can see the

As far as I can see the Charge on cutter series is pretty good with VH++ ASI, but it's still not a sword i would recommend.

I'd go with
Glacius/Combuster/Voltedge
Final Flourish/Barbarous Thorn Blade
Acheron
- a gun -

Replace Brandishes with their Sealed equivalents if you prefer heavy swords, choose whatever gun you like. I recommend Valiance for the reliability and no knockback, or any other gun if you don't want to deal with certain things (Callahan for fiends, Nova Driver for turrets, etc.)

As for actual techniques, you're gonna have to learn from scratch I think.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 16:37

Bopp

he has an Avenger already

He has an Avenger, and is trying to do this economically, so I think his elemental sword is going to be DA.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 22:47

Avixi

I didn't see the

I didn't see the "economically" part.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:11

Cyatose

Thanks for the advice

Well I took all of the advice to heart; I guess I should have responded to thank you all sooner, but I knew I would be coming back to add onto this anyways.

So I've upgraded and changed a few things, so my setup is now:

Divine Veil
Grey Owlite Shield
Skolver Coat
Avenger
Shadow Driver
Dark Thorn Blade

While I am a bit disappointed with the feel of Avenger, it will be much cheaper for me to stick with that path than change to a brandish, and I think that learning to play with the slow sword will help me in the long run anyways. That being said, I plan to upgrade to DA next, since that seems to be my weakest link, and I think the charge of DA will make up for me being a little less proficient with it than my other weapons. Once I get that taken care of, I will replace the shadow driver with a silent nightblade to finish the conversion to a full-sword play style.

Now, I am interested in how best combo with another player in a duo. A friend of mine recently started playing, and I feel that we will be playing together a lot. However, she isn't exactly skilled at video games, so the more synergistic our loadouts are, the easier it will be on my CE reserves and our progress to lower depths.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:55

Nicoya-Kitty

A Venom Veiler or Stagger

A Venom Veiler or Stagger Storm bomb is good for softening up enemies without taking them out entirely (as you would with a VT or AoA) and without requiring much skill to be synergistic (Shivermist).

A SS bomb will make gunning much more noob friendly, while the VV will probably be preferred if they go for swording. If they want to go bomber, on the other hand, setting them up with a Shivermist and teaching them good placement could be very rewarding.

I wouldn't normally recommend a VV or SS for gameplay with a skilled group, though, so it'll probably be a bit of a one-trick pony in your arsenal unless you want to irritate people in lockdown (SS) or do some RJ farming (VV, though with the RJ nerf it's no longer really critical to have unlimited poison). You can think of them as training wheels for the clockworks; it lets them learn how to kill things while putting them in slightly less danger than usual.

Given your friend isn't much into gaming, you might want to look into equipping them with a Levi for smacking things and a Nova Driver for plinking at gun puppies and the like. Normally I'd suggest a Polaris for the gun, but putting one in the hands of a noob is probably asking for trouble. Sticking with two simple weapons will make the game a lot more approachable for them.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 06:21

#10

Bopp

good question

Cyatose, your equipment plan sounds great. I think that you will enjoy it. And your question about how to play coordinate with another player is interesting.

In short, I strongly recommend that she carry a gun, particularly elemental (for turrets) but not Polaris (because it may disrupt you). It would be nice for you if she could carry a haze-style bomb such as freeze, shock, fire, or poison. Spamming these can add real value to the party, without disrupting you too much. But for her own sanity and enjoyment, she might want a sword instead of a bomb. The default general-purpose sword is Leviathan.

The reason why I'm so focused on that gun is that I often play with three swords (like you) and there are some sticky situations where a gun really helps. Namely, hitting switches in Ironclaw Munitions Factory or certain Clockworks levels. Namely, when you have to take out a field of turrets protected by spikes. I have a good friend who always carries a gun. Against a field of turrets, I act as a shield, and he guns from behind my shield. This coordinated play is both gratifying and effective.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 07:43

#11

Aljevoias

I did (am doing really) the

I did (am doing really) the same thing, got all the way to the Core as a gunner, then switched over to swords for Lockdown. Here's how it's gone for me...

Armor
Shadowsun Slicker -> Skolver Coat
Shadowsun Stetson -> Skolver Cap

Pretty much the same idea, just trading the gun damage bonus for a sword one. Armor is still pretty useless in T3, as the main defense is not getting hit in the first place and the secondary defense is the shield. A lot of people use Vog Cub instead of Skolver; Vog is better for T3 (FCC specifically), Skolver is better for Lockdown since you can get max damage with no trinkets or UVs as Striker, or with one damage trinket as anything else, freeing up your trinket slots for ASI trinket(s) which you absolutely have to have to use slow swords effectively.

Skolver also makes you immune to freeze in Lockdown. Good bombers in T3 lockdown are very difficult to approach (or shoot, even with an Argent Peacemaker), being able to run into the freeze effect and take a few swipes before they whip out the Voltaic Tempest can mean the difference between taking a capture point now or spending 30 seconds firing off Polaris volleys until they finally withdraw.

Shield
Dragonscale Shield -> Dragonscale Shield

A lot of people rag on it because it has no normal defense, but the enemies I shield the most against are wolvers (pierce) and gun puppies (and the new slime turrets) (elemental) and it still works very well.

Weapons
Barbarous Thorn Blade -> Barbarous Thorn Blade
Umbra Driver -> Gran Faust
Polaris -> Polaris
Argent Peacemaker -> Shivermist Buster (or whatever weapon I'm leveling for T1/T2 lockdown)

It's very important with guns to always shoot the damage type the mobs are weak against. Swords do so much more damage that hitting the weakness is nice but hardly absolutely necessary, so long as you're not using their strong damage type. I use the gun mostly for constructs, especially those fast robots that are ubiquitous in arenas. I'm considering starting a Glacius and dropping the polaris except for Lockdown because Polaris causes so many problems for swordsmen in PvE and an elemental sword will do way more damage to constructs than the Polaris anyway.

Other notes:
Didn't list trinkets since I didn't have enough tokens to get good 5-star trinkets until I started playing Lockdown and the gearing options from PvP trinkets are pretty straightforward. I gear for max. damage bonus first, then ASI.

Getting shocked and not immediately dispelling it will kill you even faster if you're up close. Keep those remedies handy!

Shield cancelling is very important to staying alive in T3 and Lockdown. Swing once, then shield. I generally prefer my BTB to my Gran Faust simply because it's so much faster and thus missing isn't as big of an issue - if I miss with my Gran Faust I almost always get hit due to the massive recovery time. This is especially important in T3 lockdown, you're not going to hit a good striker at all with a slow sword and if your cloak/strike boost is interrupted getting away is impossible 9 times out of 10. In PvE, don't try to tank enemies, especially in T3. Swing, shield cancel, run away/around. Once you get the hang of it you can swing, cancel, and swing again almost as fast as the regular sword combos, which is very important for killing fast T3 enemies like wolvers and spookats.

Edit: For names

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 07:24

#12

Malhaku

One piece of advice from the amatuer

I'm not as experienced as many of the people posting, but I noticed something. You have a sunset duster. If you're looking to fully go swordsman instead of gunner (and not hybriding), then that sunset duster does not have to go to waste. You can upgrade it to a Deadshot Mantle. Although deadshot is in the "gunner" line of armor, it actually doesn't have any gunner bonuses. Shadow defense, curse resist, and damage bonus versus undead. It's not Snarby coat, but it's a great piece for undead strata, good for fiend strata, good if you like to charge up faust ever.

Plus it's cool looking.
Just my 2 cents.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 09:11

#13

Bopp

agreed

I agree with Malhaku; Deadshot is some of the best shadow armor for swordsmen. (I haven't looked at the new Shadow Lair armors.)

Aljevoias' comments about Gran Faust are reasonable. I generally prefer Acheron to Gran Faust.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 11:33

#14

Cyatose

Thanks again

So I have a solid plan now for what to do with my knight, and I already had a calibur and prisma tech for her, so we can just get her another weapon slot and a good status bomb.

About the deadshot helm, I already have shadow resist from my divine veil, would it be a big enough boost to justify crafting another 5* item?

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 11:55

#15

Bopp

do you have a shadow suit?

You have an elemental/shadow helm. Do you also have an armor suit with shadow protection, such as Deadshot Mantle? If you're going into a shadow-heavy stratum, then you might want it. On the other hand, a lot of players forego the whole protection thing and just focus on offensive bonuses.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 12:13

#16

Cyatose

Misunderstanding

I see; when I first read it, I thought the mantle was the helm. It makes much more sense now.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 16:44

#17

Birgus

For your friend, without any

For your friend, without any information on taste or aptitude besides being a newbie to games in general, I second Bopp's advice; guns are generally safer and easier to use in exchange for being slower, and if you go all-swords it will be very nice to have at least one gun in your party. I'd like to add that any Piercing sword is an especially good complement for an Elemental gun, especially if she can also afford a Nightblade. IMO piercing swords have a very good blend of defensive traits (for swords) such as speed and knockback, and the Snarbie's charge attack is good for handling mobs of monsters too dangerous to get close to. For guns, the Magnus is also a good Piercing option for playing it safe; one of the first times I made it through T2 without dying, maybe even the very first, was when I took my then-new Magnus with my Kilowatt Pulsar.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 07:47

#18

Krysophylax

i know there was a thread for

i know there was a thread for tips on using heavy swords somewhere if ur still having trouble with that avenger/DA, but i can give you a brief over view.
the second hit can be delayed by pressing attack once and holding (starting the charge) then releasing (before fully charged). this allows you to move a square (maybe 1.5 squares) forward, which is really useful for finishing off something that you knocked just out of range.
its also possible to get off 3 first swings in roughly the same time it takes a 3 strike sword to finish a combo (maybe just slightly longer): swing+shield cancel+swing+start charging+release prematurely.
you should also make good use of the charge attack, its very spammable especially with some CTR. its great for clearing arenas and when soloing T2 it will one shot most constructs and undead. the charge can be shield canceled to help reduce recovery time or you can get in an extra swing at the end. charging will reduce your movement speed though so be careful.
possibly the most important thing is to choose the right time to use the second swing because of the long recovery. heavy swords are very elegant and smooth if you're in the groove but if u don't find that rhythm they'll most likely get you killed.
one last tip. your going to want some ASI to maximise its potential, either with vog cub armour or trinkets. just something to bear in mind, you'll be able to get along alright without i think until you get the funds.
hope you found this useful :)

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Need help changing from gunner-> swordsman