Hey hey! ALL I said were THOSE 3 things... And I was also bothered by the idea that players I liked to party with were declaring their retirement over this.

One thought has occurred to me. These mats, keys and whatnot DO cost a ton, and it IS ridiculous, but... those who do make it into shadow lairs will have an enormous new income source... which in itself will probably fund more shadow key purchases. So in a way, once you get in, if you're successful at it, you'll solidify your access to the shadow lairs... which is one of the main things I really want out of this update. I'll still be bothered by the enormous amount people will be spending for things, but I think I'm mostly bothered by the gambles. If I find a shadow lair party, and I craft some snarby armor, I'll sell it, but the reason I won't be bothered is because NONE of that is much of a gamble for me or anyone buying from me. They'll get exactly what they're paying for. The closest thing to a gamble is just the little bit I spend in getting an ash tail prepped in case the opportunity arises, an opportunity which I'm not foaming at the mouth to acquire, like some players are. And heck, if the opportunity doesn't come, I can still get my vog coat costume back for my dark bomber build.

I also think I wouldn't consider this a gamble if I didn't think accessories were so meaningless to almost all players. I mean, if they were more interesting, people would have enough incentive to open lockboxes, and there wouldn't be a bunch of rage unlocking just for shadow keys. It's actually intriguing to note that OOO did integrate the shadow key and accessory systems together. I think it was intended to be a very clever way of ensuring the rarity and difficulty of shadow lair access WITHOUT there having to be a direct purposeful gambling element on the players part. I wonder if they had that in mind back when they set up the prize wheel system in the first place. In a way, that is EXTREMELY clever, but it ultimately stumbles since so many people just don't care about accessories. I mean come on! Your character is this tiny dude! Accessories might stick out in promotional art, but they won't stick out in game. They almost look like graphics glitch stapled onto a player's character.

Lol, thanks for the timely heads up. I doubt I'll make that. Still gotta finish leveling this coat, and I'm not on SK, maybe for a while. Plus i don't have any clearance yet, so I doubt I can do ice queen. Thanks for the thought though!

But back to the discussion, you're point is actually not a point against it. I think it's been kinda dumb how much people can carry each other in the current boss runs. I mean sure, we've all done it, and I got owned in the first several Vana runs I had at p5. But it's kinda cheap how many people just die right off at the boss and are like, "eh, I'll just hang here while you all do the fight without me and get me the tokens." I'm glad they made this of such difficulty that it requires the full fledged effort of all party members. This shouldn't be possible for any less than a completely pro party. People shouldn't be able to profit from it either without a great party. This is suppose to the hardest of the hardest. Should everyone have a shot at it? Maybe. But I have no problem with the difficulty. I wish there was more of that in fact.