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How to make everything better (Updated)

26 replies [Last post]
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 16:00
Engie's picture
Engie

- Increase chances of keys OR make the new armors more powerful
- Add more free content as well as the expensive shadow lairs
- Focus more on gameplay and content, rather than events/promos/eye candy
- Rethink the accessory slots on certain helms (specifically bombheads :<)
- Allow auctions in CE as well as CR
- Allow invites after someone goes solo, but not to anyone who was in the party at the time
- Lower unbind costs
- Allow unbinding of costumes
- Fix the CIV
- Fix DA charges getting stuck on walls
- Apparently all ignored players are 5-star items with 3 UVs, maybe it's just me
- Add trinkets with decent defense
- Fix the "Your text is too short" thing
- Add more armor for gun/bomb users
- Bring back Tortodrone soon
- Remove the energy cost for danger rooms
- Make 5* untradable again, you shouldn't be able to buy your way to endgame
- Make the Wrench Wand upgradable ;)
- Increase the spawn of mobs with more party members
- Increase the visibility of Ghostly Aura
- Change back the look of the Avenger line

Will update with more later

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 16:44
#1
Engie's picture
Engie
Updated with two more things

Updated with two more things

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 17:10
#2
Ghret's picture
Ghret
Well, Here I go at answering all your Suggestions

===Semi-Wall of Text===

-Upping the % of Shadow Keys = a down% of Acessories. A relatively new addition that, allegedly, involved reworking over all the Armour/Helms. (Be a boot to the head for the people who works on them to have it all bulldozed over with a few bits of code)/ As for the Armours... Why not? They worked hard to get those armours, they should be more powerful. But the real question is, by how much?
-Free content is paid for by paid-content. They did release wuite a lot of free content for us, I guess that they need to recoup that cost somehow. (Of course this is complete and utter conjecture and I'm almost surely wrong)
-Do you really think that all those new gameplay additions are instantaneous? No. They require time. And these 'eye candy', as you call them, are just fillers to allow them to do some actual work on something new.
-You will just have to accept that there will be some Helm/Armours that will not be able to equip every type of accessory. Mainly due to Clipping and the fact that one type (Head Back/Armour Aura), if it doesn't fit one armour/helm correctly, it is easier to remove that entire line of accessories than try to make the accessory fit eveything.
-That will give undue wait to the CE, effecitvely making the CR worthless (Actually, I'm 99% sure that there is another thread on why that shouldn't happen. Search for a couple of pages).
-Since I'm sure that this has something to do with Looping, and I have absolutely no idea what/ how Looping works, I have no say in this.
-The whole Unbinding system wasn't put into place in order to enable you to make CR/CE. It was made so that people who are sick of one weapon can, in a sense, be rid of it. Whether selling it on the AH, giving it to a friend/random person, or even just selling it to a vendor. It is their choice.
-You don't like your costume? Then un-equip it, and sell it back to a vendor. Once again, it wasn't made so that you could make x CE/CR off your Green Tabard (Or whatever), it was made so that rare costumes would remain rare. (At least until the next time that that particular event occurs)
-No idea what's wrong with it because I never use, so, No Comment.
-[See above]
-I have no idea what you mean about this. Please elaborate as much as you can.
-Technically you can, you just have to be willing to work for 2 high-quality Trinkets (and their respective Trinket Slot Upgrades) and equip them both. Think that this is too expensive? Well then, guess you don't really want that defence? Anyway, after you get those trinkets you can just re-use them, you only need to buy the Trinket Slots themselves from then on.
-One More Time! I have no idea what you are talking about.
-Not really sure what you mean by that. I guess you mean Armour with bonuses toward Guns+Bombs right? If so, just get a normal Armour, and add some Trinkets to yourself! Anyway, There is very little you can do for Gun/Bomb users beside the obvious Attack+Speed/Carge Increases.
-They have already talked about bringing him back. The only question that remains now, is when? (Find the post yourself, search "Tortrodone Nick")
-Danger Rooms are optional, just like those Energy Gates, or Mecha-Knights/Turrets you see. There are there for you to choose whether you wish to use them, or not. (Also to deter Newbies from entering them all the time and getting slaughtered I guess)
-That removes a portion of Player Choice, if a person who has spent all that time and CE/CR wishes to sell their sword/Whatever, which they are now tired of, to another Veteran Player/ Upstart Newbie with a lot of CE, then why should you stop him?
-Alos asked for, many times.
-Would be hard to put into the game, but possible. Then again, the health (and possibly damage of the monsters is already = No. of Memebers in the party, so that would just make it harder.
...
I'm having mixed feelings about this suggestion.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 17:56
#3
Engie's picture
Engie
- Good point, hadn't thought

- Good point, hadn't thought of that. And I'm sure OOO could figure out a decent bonus to the new ones.

- OOO already gets tons of money from CE and surely from Puzzle Pirates, too. They need to make endgame F2P levels as well as the Shadow Lairs, if they're intent on keeping 'em.

- Correction: All these "eye candy" updates are just rushed crap that don't actually change anything but the amount of rage on the forums. I understand that gameplay updates take time, obviously, but they should be focusing on that and not on rushing out another update every 3 days.

- The BH masks would have no clipping issues (they're freakin' round), and there are other helmets that should have different slots. For example, none of the new Halloween costumes can have accessories.

- It would be a lot more convenient to bid/sell in CE rather than CR, since most traders trade almost exclusively with CE out of the AH.

- Looping required a player to leave and rejoin a party. It's a pretty simple fix, just don't allow players to join parties that they've already been in.

- Two things:
1. Yes it was. It's an MMO, people want their items to be tradable so they can sell them. OOO knows that.
2. The unbind costs are pretty expensive for just giving your friend an item. "Hey, want a Levi? It'll only cost me 15 bucks"

- Once again, yes it was. And I'd rather give it to a friend than sell it back to a vendor for a [crap] price.

- It barely outdamages the Levi on undead, and sucks in every other way but appearance. There's no real reason to use it over Levi.

- DA charges will hit the wall behind you without moving forward if your back is against a wall. It's pretty annoying when you get cornered while charging.

- Take a look :L Might just be me though.

- All the trinkets with defense have really pathetic stats for the time you have to put into them.

- You can't search for any accessories by their color type, like "toasty" or "drab"

- Gun and bomb users need their own kind of Vog/Skolver

- Key word is "soon" :D

- It's paying energy to fight something for a reward. (Or paying energy to die^^)

- Because it breaks the game. It's not fun playing with a party of people who just bought their items, because they won't have gained the skill and experience required for T3.

- Because it's a good idea :)

- They could reduce the amount of health that a mob gains from each player. It's much more fun and challenging to fight a large group of monsters with slightly more health than it is to spend the same amount of time hacking away at a few monsters with too much health (and they aren't any more challenging, just more tedious).

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 21:19
#4
Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
- Make bullet list of things

- Make bullet list of things that should be changed.
- Do so using very vague statements and no supporting arguments when needed
- Profit

Making lists of things are easy. But explaining why is far more conductive to discussion.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 21:36
#5
Engie's picture
Engie
@Starlinvf

Nothing on the list requires explanation that I didn't give in my reply unless you don't play Spiral Knights, they're not vague.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 22:02
#6
Kotsuso
Offline/Solo Play

Using the "charge less in general" idea as a springboard (along with the crappy internet connection in my dorm), I had an idea. The game Spiral Knights should be SOLD at around 20-30 (even 50) bucks, but have offline single player options ALONG WITH a heck of a lot less spending in-game. People throw away 60 bucks on a whim for console games, which are oftentimes crap. I myself have probably paid close to that amount (if not more) with SK, and I've been having more fun than most big-name games. It's just all this promotional, get-more-money crap that really grinds my gears (clockworks pun not intended). So how about it, OOO?

Spiral Knights! $59.99
New! Offline Single-player mode!
Crown-to-CE vendor! Turn your Clockwork spoils into alchemy requirements or elevator fees!

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 22:22
#7
Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
Break down time..... Increase

Break down time.....

Increase chances of keys OR make the new armors more powerful (why?)
- Add more free content as well as the expensive shadow lairs (like?)
- Focus more on gameplay and content, rather than events/promos/eye candy (what kind of content? And why do you consider events a waste of time?)
- Rethink the accessory slots on certain helms (specifically bombheads :<) (granted)
- Allow auctions in CE as well as CR (this could cause confusion on pricing since 100CE has a variable CR value)
- Allow invites after someone goes solo, but not to anyone who was in the party at the time. (sell invite, they go solo, sell invite, they go solo, sell invite, they go solo.... that was the main loop hole they had to plug in the first place)
- Lower unbind costs (by how much? And why that much?)
- Allow unbinding of costumes (gonna abstain on this one)
- Fix the CIV (Whats broken on it?)
- Fix DA charges getting stuck on walls (bug, not a design flaw. Listing obvious bugs to inflate a list is cheating. :P)
- Apparently all ignored players are 5-star items with 3 UVs, maybe it's just me (they're just a**holes. I don't think theres a technical fix for that.)
- Add trinkets with decent defense (how much defense would be acceptable or overpowered?)
- Fix the "Your text is too short" thing (technical issue, thats currently being addressed)
- Add more armor for gun/bomb users (examples? What stats aren't already covered?)
- Bring back Tortodrone soon (They are...... *facepalm*)
- Remove the energy cost for danger rooms (why? It would be like making every level as profitable as an arena, and you should already know why this is bad.)
- Make 5* untradable again, you shouldn't be able to buy your way to endgame (why only 5* and not 4* as well?)
- Make the Wrench Wand upgradable ;)
- Increase the spawn of mobs with more party members (even though they already upped the HP to scale difficult... Unless this is another profit grab idea)
- Increase the visibility of Ghostly Aura (granted)
- Change back the look of the Avenger line (I like the new look, but granted)

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 22:58
#8
Engie's picture
Engie
- Shadow Lairs aren't worth

- Shadow Lairs aren't worth the effort at the moment
- New levels, derp.
- New levels, monsters, weapons. Events not as much, but they should be fixing things and focusing on bigger updates rather than rushing out small ones every couple days.
- ~~~~~
- Then CE should be allowed for 4 hour auctions due to fluctuating prices
- The main loophole was looping, where someone would go solo and go through the arena, then rejoin and repeat.
- I don't know, but it's too expensive to give items to friends. It also makes it more expensive to sell equipment, and to buy it, too.
- ~~~~~
- It barely outdamages the Levi on undead, and sucks in every other way but appearance. There's no real reason to use it over Levi.
- Well it needs to happen ;o
- I mean this haha
- Probably 1.5x - 2x what they are now. The defensive ones aren't useful compared to the modules, they should be buffed a bit.
- Didn't know that, thanks
- Or fix the current ones. Why are all the bonuses low when Skolver/Snarbolax/Vog Cub have medium?
- Where'd you hear this?
- Because it's a challenge, and it's not fun to have to pay to fight for your reward
- Because you'd have to be good at the game to get 4* armor to 5*. If you're not, you will be when you're finished.
- ~~~~~
- "Another"? Rude. No, it's to make it more challenging and less tedious.
- ~~~~~
- ~~~~~

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 23:36
#9
Madadder's picture
Madadder
the title of this should be

the title of this should be changed to "how to make everything broken" because that is what would happen if some of these were to be put into effect

i won't rehash what star has already stated because i largely agree with what he/she said

those promos/events/eye candy are just another way of marketing the game and offering incentive to sink some money into getting those items.

but they should be fixing things and focusing on bigger updates rather than rushing out small ones every couple days.
fixing things, yes, but bigger updates= longer wait time. i would rather the content trickle in, than wait 6+ months for it to come in.

It barely outdamages the Levi on undead, and sucks in every other way but appearance. There's no real reason to use it over Levi.
it's a specialty weapon it is meant to out damage levi on undead but suck on everything else

right, increase the power gap between those that use trinkets and those who don't... no thanks

Why are all the bonuses low when Skolver/Snarbolax/Vog Cub have medium?
because with swords it's high risk due to the proximity you need to be to make use of the bonus. a skilled gunner is always a mile from danger and constantly kiting, bomber don't need the damage so much as they need the CTR

Because it's a challenge, and it's not fun to have to pay to fight for your reward
how is it no fun? danger rooms are more fun when they are free and puts more coin in your bank? your logic is flawed

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 02:46
#10
Master-Of's picture
Master-Of
Most of the things on your

Most of the things on your list, Engie, are really good suggestions. I think people in this thread are just afraid of change, so that they can't accept a suggestion without posting non-constructive criticism. They fear OOO would like and implement your interesting suggestions.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 04:08
#11
Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
I only fear changes that have

I only fear changes that have a wider negative impact then people are willing to consider. The biggest arguments usually involve cost balance or perceived value of an item or service. Take Punch for example. Everyone would want Punch to be cheaper so they can deck out their equipment.... but consider all the changes made surrounding UVs when he was added.

Before:
- You only obtain UVs during crafting activities
- You had a max of 1 UV per item
- You had a base chance of 10% to get a UV
- The UVs obtained had a greater then 50% chance to be low
- Higher UV were considerably more valuable then lows
- People rage crafted low star items as a cheap way to farm good UVs, and sold off the failures.

After:
- Punch can guaranty a UV, and can generate up to 3 depending on the ticket
- Ticket price differences were orders of magnitude apart
- Crafting could generate a UV with ~10% base chance of 1 UV, and unclear odds of additional UVs (still being debated)
- The rating of each UV still follows the old rule set
- The base value of a UV plummeted unless it was an ASI, CTR or minimum high Dmg vs monster that was synergistic to the weapons damage type
- Same thing with armors, but only when its synergises well the items basic stats. Tangent UVs that aren't in the High-Max category don't provide enough protection to even be considered valuable.
- Rage crafting UVs for resale was no longer viable (the problem they were targeting to stop)

Now think about why they decided to do it that way instead of simply having Punch generate 1 UV at a very high Price? 2 Reasons.... The first was stop AH being flooded with clean or low UV gear, along with insanely high mat prices due to all the rage crafting. There was also the related CE consumption, but that was impacted by other factors as well. The second was adding a crown sink by making UVs accessible to the masses... something that people would waste money on that didn't involve feeding the rage crafters. Expanding the system to 3 possible UVs was done so there would still be something in the system that was both rare and desirable for the truly insane spenders (or insanely lucky).

That kind of change was driven with careful thought of the consequences, and greatly expanded due to a few glaring flaws in the basic idea behind it. In the process of trying to address one issue, they also addressed the potential side effects, ending up with a system that redefined and greatly expanded UVs as whole. That, even if relatively minor, is a positive innovation.

When looking at your responses, most of them amount you wanting them to remove/change something that is inconvenient, but can't see the effects beyond the immediate gain. So your damn right I'd be scared if OOO implemented these ideas without proper refinement.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 06:35
#12
Ghret's picture
Ghret
Let me just start off by

Let me just start off by saying: Desouler, your comments are not appreciated very much nowasays, mainly due to 'that' thread you made. You will need to do something to get your reputation back to a level where people will actually listen to you, instead of just going 'Troll! Shoot down.'

On another point, I think that we should consider the points that are actually viable for implementation into the game i.e. graphic changes and the like.
...
Or just let this thread die.
...
I don't care either way.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 06:54
#13
Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
@Ghret:

@Ghret: http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2011/254/2/e/the_drifter_by_jonwil...

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 08:34
#14
Engiealt's picture
Engiealt
Responses

@Ghret
Leave Desouler alone, he's just giving feedback :I

@Desouler
Thanks^^

@Madadder
What exactly do you agree with? Most of his responses were questions.
- A decent update would not take 6+ months, wow. It would probably be around once a month.
- Yeah, it's supposed to outdamage Levi on undead, but it barely does. They need to give it higher damage versus undead, because the damage increase is pathetic at the moment.
- Gun users do need to stay out of the way, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have medium bonuses. They should have lower defense, not attack. I didn't say anything about bomb CTR or damage, they both need to have a higher bonus. >_>
- And why would that gap (in defense, not power) matter? Defense trinkets are cheap, there's no exclusivity.
- Danger rooms are a challenge, and you won't get a reward unless you're skilled enough to kill the mobs for their coins, and for the boxes at the end. You're earning your reward in a danger room whether you pay the CE or not.

@Starlinvf
Yeah, changing anything to do with CE is going to cause some changes in economy. But that's just how it goes, and I'm sure OOO would figure out how to keep everyone happy, they're usually pretty good at that.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 08:58
#15
Ghret's picture
Ghret
Sorry for that

My head wasn't working properly. I'm just going to sleep for awhile.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 09:53
#16
Madadder's picture
Madadder
i agreed with why you should

i agreed with why you should go more in depth with your suggestions

A decent update would not take 6+ months, wow. It would probably be around once a month.
OOO isnt that big you know that cant pull it off at that speed

but CIV DOES outdamage Levi on undead right? it doesnt have to be much but it DOES

u dont get it gunners with medium bonuses are OP they dont need to get in the line of fire like swordsmen...

but the trinket slots are expensive to a lot of people. you saying to unfairly buff the trinkets while leaving anyone without them in the dust

ok then you admit to you get the reward when you pay for the danger room. that aside couldn't this be extended to elevator costs too? you have to pay to fight for your reward in that case too... why not just suggest to abolish elevator costs?

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 16:59
#17
Espeonage's picture
Espeonage
@Madadder

"OOO isnt that big you know that cant pull it off at that speed"
Uh
April: 1st Arsenal Expansion/1st Rose Regalia
May: Auction House [and economy fixes]
June: Roar of the Snarbolax/Arsenal Expansion
July: Roarmulus Twins/Arsenal Expansion
August: Reintroduction of PvP - Blast Network/"2nd" Arsenal Expansion/Reintroduction of Weapon Trinkets
September: Lockdown/Clockworks Expansion
October: Shadow Lairs/Harvest Festival

And they are still a relatively small team.

"but CIV DOES outdamage Levi on undead right? it doesnt have to be much but it DOES"
The issue here is that while it at least does what it seems to be intended for, it doesn't do it very well. In its current state, there's little point to use it over Leviathan, or any Elemental sword. If that Leviathan has a DB Undead UV, CIV is basically inferior overall.

"u dont get it gunners with medium bonuses are OP they dont need to get in the line of fire like swordsmen..."
Here's another way to look at it:
Damage Bonuses are percentage-based.
Swords = High damage,
Bombs = Medium damage,
Guns = Low damage.
What does this mean? A melee user gets more out of a single increment of damage bonus than either Bombs or Guns. If they're already dealing easily-executable high damage, wouldn't swordsmen with Medium DB be 'OP'?

By the way, this whole point can be tossed out the window since weapon trinkets. And Elite weapon trinkets.

"but the trinket slots are expensive to a lot of people. you saying to unfairly buff the trinkets while leaving anyone without them in the dust"
1) Trinket slots are 150 energy, or ~9k crowns as of now. If a player use a full tank of mist upon purchase it's only 50 energy, or ~3k crowns.
2) Trinkets are there to grant additional bonuses, and they already do so for only those who have them, and have them equipped. It seems like you're saying that they don't do that currently, but upping the defense trinkets will make this sort of imbalance apparent. If not, you're just expressing your opposition to buffing items, which currently do their job inadequately.

"ok then you admit to you get the reward when you pay for the danger room. that aside couldn't this be extended to elevator costs too? you have to pay to fight for your reward in that case too... why not just suggest to abolish elevator costs?"
Agreed; I don't really see the backing in the original suggestion. What it should be instead is something like "make 'danger rooms' a staple part of the level." This may not have great merit either, but it's more sensible.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 15:41
#18
Engie's picture
Engie
@Espeonage

Thanks :D

The modules don't really nullify the point though. With medium bomb CTR, you could use one trinket to get 6 CTR (when your bomb is level 10), and have another slot for damage. With low bonuses, you can either have 5 CTR and one slot, or 6 CTR and no slots. This is without UV, of course.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 16:55
#19
Espeonage's picture
Espeonage
^

Indeed, then there's that problem.

My reply was primarily to the idea that Guns/Gunner gear with higher DB increments would be overpowered, but then the weapon trinkets entered the fray. With them, Guns/Gunners can have Very High DB to all monsters, without suffering potential repercussions of a Shadowsun set (for only the power of one Elite Trueshot), or any other downsides.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:26
#20
Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
@Espeonage: A release cycle

@Espeonage: A release cycle doesn't tell you how long content was in development. They could easily have multiple projects running parallel, with one portion waiting on another. For example... The weapons could had been developed in under a couple weeks, but the maps could had been in production for up to 2 months due to their size.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 04:09
#21
Espeonage's picture
Espeonage
^

That is an entirely valid point; preplanning is essential, really.
My list was just to present how we have had ~monthly decent/great releases, for a team of their size.

Now development time, there's another branch to take a view from.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 23:22
#22
Ewbte's picture
Ewbte
untradable 4* and 5* - no

untradable 4* and 5* - no way, just imagine how thats bad.

its better to make a rule what prevent new created character from wearing 4* and 5*.
and this option became open to him only after some amount of playing hours. (there is a timer under every knight when choosing)

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 07:33
#23
Kraanx's picture
Kraanx
uhm

can i add just one more thing?
bring back the rocks on 4-star troikas
nerfing the other heavy swords to make troikas look better is ridiculous

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:40
#24
Engie's picture
Engie
@Ewbte

Imagine how that's bad? I'm not seeing anything. Earn your own damn items, nobody likes a player who buys 5* items to skip T1 and T2.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 16:01
#25
Engie's picture
Engie
Welp, nothing made it in this

Welp, nothing made it in this patch. Let's hope for next.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 13:27
#26
Engie's picture
Engie
I'm not sure if bumping is

I'm not sure if bumping is allowed in suggestions, but here goes anyway

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