picked up a prisma asi med today to match my firo asi med and volt asi med (thank you to whoever decided to sell his prisma mk 2 for the awesome price of 22k). Since i am still undecided on which one to use for most scenarios, the best thing to do would be to test them in clockworks. i was thinking of timing how fast i solo through some levels with each of the weapons... so any other suggestions on how i should test these weapons?
prisma vs firo vs volt faceoff
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 22:35
Mon, 10/24/2011 - 08:11
#2
No Need to Test them...
The prisma does around 1/3 more damage than the other two in exchange for the lack of a status. Unless you have a need to inflict a status on certain enemies, the prisma will always win.
I have a Volt Driver (which I really, reallyl liked) until I decided to try out the prisma line, and haven't used the volt gun since. The added shock status can be a life saver occasionally, but for how often it shocks, in straight up damage, the prisma always wins.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 01:32
#3
Prisma outdamages everything.
Prisma outdamages everything. Look at this expample:
Lets say Prisma deals 130 damage and Frio 100 +100 (all dots) with fire. So you guess Firo deals more?? eh?? No. If you attack a mob once and slurp some tea, yea, but if you hit a mob 5 times:
5x 130 = 650
5x 100 = 500 + 1x (!) 100 = 600
Also damage over time doesnt get stronger with gun tinkers. I luv Nova, all other Alchemers are pretty crappy i guess, just Shock may help you sometimes cause of disturbing attacks.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 05:23
#4
Nope magma driver outdmg's
Nope magma driver outdmg's all (Unless mob has Status effect : Fire inmunity) it's the highest dps utility gun.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:15
#5
Stop talking about something
Stop talking about something you don't know... I got every Alchemer and Prisma clearly deals MORE damage than all the other Alchemers. I tried them all and it's just the "not annoying"-est of all them. Everyone deals a status and the shadow + prisma dont, so they get damage increased some patches ago.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 07:48
#6
in theory, yes the prisma out
in theory, yes the prisma out damages all the status alchemers by a long shot (that's assuming every shot hits)
but i want to test it in practice (especially against shielding/fast-ish moving targets where you have a chance of missing/getting your shots blocked). I will still test it though... gotta find a prisma driver recipe from basil
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 09:01
#7
Or you can go for the cryo
Or you can go for the cryo line for utility :3
Right now I have a prisma driver and trying to decide if I should also pick up a cryo driver, since I'm mostly in groups.
I heard hail driver works best when it comes to freezing gun puppies. Also yeah the shots break the freeze but what you do is ignore the frozen guy and go for the next guy in line.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 10:14
#8
@The-Rawrcake the problem
@The-Rawrcake the problem with the shots breaking the freeze is that the ricochet from the exact same shot that froze them can unfreeze them again. Or the ricochet from the next shot you were aiming at a completely different monster.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 11:23
#9
One thing to be said about the volt line
Damage aside, the statuses can be useful.
The one thing I miss about my volt driver is that when it did inflict shock, it would occasionally "chain shock" a whole group of enemies. That's to say, whichever one it shocked, would in turn shock any and all enemies adjacent to it.
Not great for damage, but could be really useful (arenas.)
Given that the firo is all about damage and does less than the prisma, and that the cryo freezes and then ricochets and unfreezes, though... Between them all unless you need to shock something, or need freeze to put out oilers (the best use I can think of for the cryo) the prisma is still "da best."
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 16:54
#10
"Stop talking about something
"Stop talking about something you don't know.."
Rubbish.
Firo 100+100 while prisma 130 ? its not minor fire it's Moderate fire if you hitting 75 to a turret it'll tick for 51-54~x4 and will take arround 40%+~ of it's total hp with a single proc.
Firo does 'alot' more damage because of status effect (Good chance of 'causing Moderate Fire' which is amazing.) have you forgot you can easly ignite multiple enemies?
if it's take 4 shot to kill a mob with prisma you can shot 3 with firo and walk away while it burns to a cinder.
Ps: Normal armor does not lessen the damage from fire. Neither does Elemental armor. Rather, only Fire-resistant armor lessens the damage of fire.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 18:21
#11
I never need a Firo in a
I never need a Firo in a normal run... my prisma driver already OH-KO everything undead or construc (lumbers are little more thought..).. soo the fire status is just a overkill for me.. and a issue in a fire strata ( Even more with oilers) ....but i love a Firo in a jelly run.
Also.. firo does more DPS but prisma driver does a HIGH dmg in short time ( Insane ricochet dmg)
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 18:32
#12
@Regalya "if it's take 4 shot
@Regalya "if it's take 4 shot to kill a mob with prisma you can shot 3 with firo and walk away while it burns to a cinder."
No. with 3 shots the fire damage will only apply to the last shot. Consecutive firing may re-ignite the target but will not stack and legnthen the duration/increase the fire damage.
In order for what you suggest to work, you'd have to shoot, wait for fire to dispel and then shoot again. With prisma you can shoot non-stop without problem, making the job faster.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 18:53
#13
Firo > Prisma
@Juances I think you misunderstood the math. Three firo driver bullets plus the four fire ticks will do more damage than 4 prisma driver bullets. The DPS advantage for firo versus prisma gets even larger in crowded areas (arenas, graveyards, danger rooms, etc.) in which ricochets can light even more enemies on fire with a single shot. I tore up a danger room today with a firo driver by shooting until an enemy was burning, then moving on to the next one.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 19:17
#14
Prisma > Firo... blah blah my weapon > you weapon
I love my prisma becouse...
- Its green.. im green... lol
- is usefull in FSC.
- Works everywhere.
- Its not Status dependent.
- Can OH-KO alot of mobs.
I like firo becouse...
- Works well against JK..
I strong dislike firo becouse blah bla....
- Its status dependet.
- i cant use this in FSC.
- even if this does more dmg than a prisma... its too situational (What happens if the arena/Clockwork is Fire stratum... say fuuuuuu ? )
I dont use others alchemers... becouse..
- Too low dmg...
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 19:21
#15
All are good. Better is situation-dependent.
I have firo driver, gigawatt pulsar, and hail driver. I choose which to carry based on the stratum. They're all pretty awesome. An extra 10-20 damage per hit makes no difference to me. Each is ideal for some situations and less good for others.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 19:36
#16
@situation-dependent.... no
@situation-dependent.... no really.. of course if you can afford 4 wep slots for 2 elemental wep.
Now think about gunner with only 3 wep slots (only 1 elemental, 1 piercing, 1 shadow) Prisma is better in this situation.
Swordmans always pick Polaris for the turret issues.. same bombers.
Also "An extra 10-20 damage per hit" its more than 10-20... its like 60-70 and thats is a lot.
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 19:52
#17
I'd say
I'd say:
Single target or fire resistant: Prisma
Multiple weak to fire targets: Firo (since a few bullets can ignite a lot of enemies)
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 19:54
#18
Weapon for the Stratum
Pick the weapon that's best for the stratum and you have a use for all three without carrying all three. I'll take my firo to a freeze stratum, cryo to anywhere I expect to see a lot of turrets (freezing to stop the aiming), and gigawatt pulsar when I'm planning to solo arenas. I never carry more than one elemental gun, but I own 3 of them. I have 10 bombs even though I never carry more than two at a time.
Wed, 10/26/2011 - 00:28
#19
Blergh ... math fail eh? D:
Blergh ... math fail eh? D: It doesnt matter if there are multiple targets or just one. If you hit with Firo a main target and 2 others and all start to burn, so can you do with Nova, hitting all 3.
Well because of the point a want to haveanyway every gun ingame and i even already got the 4* recipe for firo, i'll wait with upgrading my prisma to 5* and will level the firo first to 4* lv10.
we'll see :D
Wed, 10/26/2011 - 03:08
#20
@Juances no one said it'd
@Juances no one said it'd stack i ment the proc will finish it off with a shot or two less
@Goldmaker it'll still do stable elemental damage to those who's inmunue to status effect i am still hitting 200+ to skeletons in fsc they just don't get burn thats all also oilers will get burned anyway (they get elemetal damage resist so neither nova nor magma will do good against those)
@Abathur in t2 dot will tick 50~x4 in t3 dot will tick 100+ x4 it does more dps and more damage output then Nova because neither mobs nor the environment will allow you stand still and shot stuff consistently and if you shoting with rythm (sinlge shot spam without reload) firo will do alot more because you'll get extra dot tick between shots.
Get your firo to lvl 10 you'll get better understanding when you actually use the gun.
Wed, 10/26/2011 - 07:36
#21
how are you guys getting
how are you guys getting 50-100 ticks for the fire dot? I am using a lvl10 firo driver right now and i see like ticks of just 19 even at T3 (Also when i mouse over the firo driver, i don't see the "Good chance to cause moderate fire" thing at all). Are you guys using the magma driver now?
Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:26
#22
How good is Fire at spreading
How good is Fire at spreading from one monster to others, compared to Shock? Alchemers seem to be fairly good at splattering on multiple monsters, so is it good enough for this to be a moot point?
Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:38
#23
@Birgus I don't think I've
@Birgus I don't think I've ever noticed one monster setting another on fire. (well, except for scorchers and red rovers setting oilers on fire, but that doesn't really count)
Thu, 10/27/2011 - 03:37
#24
I though only shock will set
I though only shock will set allies and enemies on shock too, but i though fire will only be able to hit enemies if the kinght is burning. I've never seen a mob dealing damage to another one while burning.
Fri, 10/28/2011 - 08:30
#25
@Birgus Unlike shock fire
@Birgus Unlike shock fire will not spread to anyone neither mobs nor knights only the mobs who got ignited by the gun.
@Somenubcake probably because your ingame tooltip missing veryfy game files or something happens sometime after patches for example on last update i had stat bug that i've seen resistance bonuses as double on armor pieces.
Fri, 10/28/2011 - 17:52
#26
prismatech vs status alchemers
prismatech is better than a firo/cryo/voltech alchemer as an elemental gun.
firo/cryo/voltech alchemers should be used as an anti-horde gun.
erm.. posted in a wrong thread. whole rationale behind my reasoning here.
Fri, 10/28/2011 - 18:27
#27
Thank you. I noticed one of
Thank you. I noticed one of the loading screen tips saying we can share it when we get it on us, but did not know that monsters cannot. I don't play with fire enough yet, so did not think much of my failure to remember noticing it spreading. I think I would still take the effectiveness penalty just to see zombies running around in flames, but I'm eventually going for a Fireburst Brandish AND a Pepperbox anyway so I can go with the Prismatech and not miss out. :D (I want to get into more Normal-damage weapons, and Autogun is the only Normal-type gun that feels worthwhile to me.)
Sat, 10/29/2011 - 07:46
#28
For damage, I personally find
For damage, I personally find Firo to be better. Hear me out. Yes, Prismatech does do more straight-up damage than the other alchemers. Yes, Firotech is weaker than Prismatech. But I have both and I've found that the Firotech's ability to cause fire really balances out its lack of damage.
Voltech was always useless to me. Shock does minimal damage and only occasionally causes the enemy to flinch. I unbound and sold it. No regrets.
Sat, 10/29/2011 - 16:04
#29
Well my 4* Var does 20 dot
Well my 4* Var does 20 dot too :/ pretty crappy ... but its only lv1 so :o i'm confused. maybe it does A: increase at higher levels, B: a % dmg of the max HP of enemies: solo it suc, full pt its great :O
Sat, 10/29/2011 - 17:09
#30
A little summary for each gun.
You also need to take into account that you won't cause the status effect with every shot of the alchemer, where as the Prismatech will always give out the damage that you're expecting.
Whoever is saying you can OHKO with the Primsa is obviously lying though, that doesn't even happen when you're playing solo, let alone with a full party in FSC or any other T3 depth.
For DPS:
The Prisma will win since it gains that extra damage immediately. (Vs 1 mob even with considering status effects)
The Firo will win when igniting multiple targets at a time. (Vs many mobs, or 1 mob and not bothering with that mob until the fire proc ends)
Ex: Firo - 100 per shot, 100 per ignite. Prisma 130 per shot. Meaning Unless you have enough time to light the mob twice without waiting, the Prisma will end up doing more damage. You will have enough time to wait if you are paying attention to more than 1 mob at a time.
The Volt will win when kiting, or vs multiple mobs clumped up together, because of shock hitting everything that touches the shock, the damage multiplies for however many mobs are in that clumped ball.
Ex: 100 per shot, 25 per shock tick multiplied by all adjacent mobs (2-3 ticks per status effect). In FSC and arenas, this bonus is quite large because of the amount of mobs in tight space at once. Also keep in mind that mobs getting their attack interrupted helps the entire team out.
The Cryo isn't in this thread, but I'll add that the thaw damage amounts to around the total status damage from fire, but actually getting a mob to thaw takes ages, and is usually broken by a random ricochet or another player most of the time.
Stoping a gun puppy from turning or keeping a strong mob in place is an extremely valuable use.
The fact is there's no clear cut winner, there are too many variables to consider. Just figure which strata you feel you do most (if it's FSC, don't get a firo, ect.) or which effect you feel the most beneficial and pick accordingly.
Sun, 10/30/2011 - 04:07
#31
Well why should Fire be
Well why should Fire be better at multiple mobs? Every mob you hit with Magma would be hit too with Prisma and its same as it would be at 1v1. However ... still confused why i deal just 14 tic dot at t3 with 4* :/
Sun, 10/30/2011 - 09:36
#32
from what i've read: magma
from what i've read: magma does 70-100 damage per tick. and the nova just does about 30 damage more than magma per hit....
from a burst dps point of view: so as long as u can inflict the status at least once, the magma will out damage the nova (the tick happens as soon as the status's been inflicted).
magma 2 shots, inflicted the status once: (162 * 2) + (78 to 110) = 402 to 434
nova 2 shots: 197*2 = 394
Now if only i know what is the % chance of inflicting a status with a magma then i can calculate the theoretical dps over longer periods of time...
references:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/31187 (magma burn DoT)
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/29391 (nova and status alchemer damage per shot)
@dirty-harry: thanks for that post. i tried my volt driver in FSC and i find it to out dps my polaris. usually i see like 4-8 shock damage ticks at one time, sometimes it's multiple shock damage popping up because multiple of the zombies are shocked at the same time
@abathur: yea i find that really weird.. it makes the firo driver really lame but i really want a magma driver now lol
Sun, 10/30/2011 - 13:21
#33
nah, if i wanted to get fire
nah, if i wanted to get fire i would get my fireey pepperbox (say what you want about an autogun, it has decent damage if everyone of them hits) and my prisma driver for damage, tyvm (also note i only got introduced to prisma driver when i found it in a royal jelly palace run)
Fri, 11/04/2011 - 00:49
#34
Thats a pretty interesting
Thats a pretty interesting choice - Pepperbox ... due wanna have anyway every gun ingame -> gonna build one :D
Fri, 11/04/2011 - 00:55
#35
Nah
>Whoever is saying you can OHKO with the Primsa is obviously lying
Wut? You can easily OHKO turrets with a prisma charge and good aim when soloing. Also undeads and other constructs.
You can probably do the same with any other alchemer.
Fri, 11/04/2011 - 01:55
#36
@Tantarian
When I read "Can
@Tantarian
When I read "Can OH-KO a lot of mobs", charge attack Isn't what first comes to mind. I understand how powerful a well placed alchemer charge can be, but the way he's wording it makes it sound like some kind of ridiculous laser cannon.
You get to test your guns on near-harmless enemies at no energy cost.