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A few (important) things to remember when running Firestorm Citadel...

23 replies [Last post]
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:05
Eldibs's picture
Eldibs

Here's some things to keep in mind when you're doing FSC. Keeping these things in mind will help the survivability of you and your team.

1. The DA trick doesn't work any more. You can still do the Rocket Room in D25, as long as someone spams Polaris shots at the Rocket Puppy. But ONLY shoot him if he's active. Let sleeping dogs lie.

2. In D24, when you're running up the corridor to destroy the wheel launchers, use your shield. I know, this is obvious, but far too many people assume they've positioned themselves just right, and then get smacked in the face. Any time a wheel gets close to you, shield if you can.

3. NEVER destroy heart boxes or Trojan corpses unless either you absolutely need them, or you're leaving the area and everyone is ready. This will allow everyone to heal up together for the next section. This will also allow generous party members to give you their heat before ending the level.

4. The Leviathan charge attack is a crowd control weapon, not a DPS weapon. The exception is on Vanaduke and on Trojans when there are no enemies around. Failure to remember this will cause you to knock attacking foes into your allies, which is bad.

5. Do not try to use Blitz Needle to kill a Trojan when there are other enemies around. You will get hit. Blitz Needle is best saved for right when the Trojans spawn, and for Vanaduke. In the middle of a hectic fight, it's worthless.

6. Dread Venom Striker is not for attacking Slags. It works wonders for picking off a Trojan while managing Slags, but don't actually attack Slags with it. You will get hit. Goad the Trojan into attacking, and bump the Slags away. Then you can circle around to get a few hits in before shielding again.

7. Leave the Cobalt at home. I'm sure you want to be unique and special, but wearing inappropriate gear in FSC can easily lead to your demise. Nobody wants to carry a teammate because they thought full Cobalt, Aegis, and Acheron were good to bring. Note that this can be mitigated by player skill, but until you have FSC dedicated to memory, bring appropriate gear. It doesn't have to be the cookie-cutter Vog, Grey Owlite, and DA, but make sure you've got fire defense on your armor and shield, and preferably bring Shadow defense and at least one Elemental weapon.

8. Mind the Trojan charge paths. When you're goading a Trojan into charging and attacking you, make sure that none of your allies are in his path. Nobody likes to get hit by a runaway Trojan.

9. If you see someone standing next to a gate, charging up Blitz Needle or a piercing sword, you should probably be the one to go kill that last Slag. However, be kind enough to wait for them to finish charging before killing it. You should also avoiding knocking said Slag into them. Your teammates will thank you when the Trojans that are about to spawn die instantly.

10. Shield Bump. SHIELD BUMP. If you don't know what it is yet, you're not qualified for FSC. Period. Use it often, just be careful not to bump attacking foes into other knights. It's far better to bump an attacking Slag away and have his swing miss, than to have your shield take the hit and temporarily reduce your blocking ability. Also, you CAN bump Trojans away, but only slightly. It's just enough room to allow you to squeeze out of a corner, not enough to push them completely away.

11. This is the most important rule of them all - Accidents happen. Sometimes one Trojan attacks, knocking the other Trojan into you. Sometimes, you have a lag spike and and accidentally shield bump an enemy into someone. Occasionally, you simply don't see the other player, or the enemy coming up from the bottom of the screen. These things happen, and it's important to remember that it's nobody's fault, so please don't rage at your teammates for the occasional error. You're not being pro, you're being a jerk, and nobody likes that. Show some consideration.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:25
#1
Skaiwalka's picture
Skaiwalka
I approve this thread.

I approve this thread.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:53
#2
Kreuz-Drache's picture
Kreuz-Drache
As do I. I have plans on

As do I. I have plans on doing a Vana run later in the evening with my guild and this is some really nice information.(It's not my first time, but my last time was a complete failure. :()

Although, how slightly is shield bumping a Trojan is? Cause lately, I've been having a lot of cheap deaths in lower levels, due to me being cornered by one.(I heard guns were good at pushing them away, but alas, I have no guns. :()

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 17:37
#3
Skaiwalka's picture
Skaiwalka
Shield bumping a Trojan moves

Shield bumping a Trojan moves them like an inch. haha But like Eldibs said, it's juuuust enough to squeeze past them if you happen to get trapped by one.
A lot of people don't know about this, even my friends I regularly run with (they swear they can't shield bump them out of the corner, and die, so I have to rev them...), I'm glad someone mentioned this little tip. haha

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:59
#4
Alynn's picture
Alynn
whats this trick that you are talking about?

the DA trick? I don't care if its not available anymore but i just want to know :3

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 00:38
#5
Eldibs's picture
Eldibs
I won't tell you how to do

I won't tell you how to do it, that's useless information now anyways, but I will tell you what it was... The DA trick was a massively exploited glitch that allowed you to hit objects on the other sides of walls and other barriers, using Divine Avenger's charge attack. This would allow you to trigger ghost blocks and switches without actually having to fight your way over to them. It also allowed you to hit enemies from relative safety. It was most frequently used in the Firestorm Citadel as a way to bypass some minor annoyances. For many people, it was the only reason to own a Divine Avenger. I personally still love mine. The exploit was patched fairly recently, however, and now Divine Avenger lacks this ability.

Also, thank you for the kind words. I hope my advice helps you to smack Vanaduke around and show him who's the boss.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 06:42
#6
Alynn's picture
Alynn
ohh i see

lol i thought it had something to do with the rocket puppy room in one of the FSC levels (the one with the 6 spirits)

gj on the info too btw #2 and #10 has been useful to me

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 11:19
#7
Poopsie's picture
Poopsie
eh...

disagree on number 5. Sometimes it's life safer if you have skill and reflex to do it meanwhile other teammates aren't.
On #10, when you get hit into the corner, sometimes it's better to let go the shield and eat some damage to shield bump. Broken shield means no shield bump.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 15:58
#8
Juances's picture
Juances
Shouldn't this thread be

Shouldn't this thread be placed elsewhere? I don't think New Recruits are ready for Vana

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 18:39
#9
Wuvvums's picture
Wuvvums
That's what I was thinking

That's what I was thinking too. FSC is endgame content. A gloaming wildwoods thread would be more relevant.

I wonder what it'd be like to deck yourself out in 1-star or starting gear and to run the dungeon? Maybe I'll attempt it on my alt character when I get back from vacation.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 14:34
#10
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
Extremely well written

Extremely well written thread! I'd like to add a couple things.

7. THANK YOU! There are plenty of people that can run FSC in inappropriate gear... I normally go in Mad Bomber (yes, I'm insane) because I want max CTR on my Shiver. If you're not very adept at dodging don't do it. You are not going to need the Acheron/GF... there's maybe 20 slimes in the entire strata. Yes, the BTS is nice, are you good at dodging Vana's mace? No? Then bring an elemental shield.

A Shivermist bomber is your best friend, the massive swarms can't harm you if they can't move (and you are smart enough not to get right smack in their face). And a good one can keep Vana freeze locked during most of his fight. Very High CTR (through level 10 and either UVs, armor, or trinkets) is enough to keep Vana freeze locked.

I agree with the stuff about Blitz. It should be noted though that if you have enough skill and damage boost vs undead you can use the charge (never the normal attack...) to one shot the zombies. CTR boost helps a lot in this. If you don't have the practice don't try it in a crowded area, you'll get eaten.

If you have a Vortex bomber let them suck in the enemies and the rest of the party hit them all with a charge attack. It is amusing as hell watching an entire wave of enemies die in 3 seconds because a Vortex bomber sucked them in and the other 3 party members hit them with DA and Glacius charges all at once.

Oh, and actually you can shield bump when your shield is broken. It still does the flash animation and pushes enemies back... but since your shield is broken you can still get hit.

~Gwen

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 10:35
#11
Bluescreenofdeath's picture
Bluescreenofdeath
F.Y.I. the Duke's mace does

F.Y.I. the Duke's mace does Normal/Stun damage, so an elemental shield would not be any better then the BTS for soaking mace shots.

If you are struggling with Vanaduke's mace the Volcanic Plate Shield (VPS) is well tuned for it, Normal/Stun/Fire protection. That said, Gwen's advice to bring an elemental shield, Grey Owlite (Elemental/Normal/Fire/Shock), is good advice for FSC in general. Honestly, the Dukes mace is really easy and predictable with just a little practice and most any 5* shield that has Normal defense should be able to take at least one hit (provided you were in the blue to begin with).

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 11:05
#12
Velcro's picture
Velcro
To add to Bluescreen's

To add to Bluescreen's comment.

I'd like to change it to "Most any 5* shield that has Normal defense should be able to take one hit with the shield breaking and the status affecting part of the attack still getting you." Or at least this is my experience with BTS so any shield with comparable Normal defense and no status resistance against Stun and/or Fire. A remedy pill 'remedies' this minor inconvenience. (>.>)

Also it's always better to dodge clockwise to Vana's mace. In my experience it has a larger hit box in the counter-clockwise direction than it appears to have. Staying just clockwise of where the mace will hit will often leave you undamaged though you might get a little push, it shouldn't damage you if done correctly. Dodging counter-clockwise, I seem to get hit more often.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 05:46
#13
Batabii's picture
Batabii
One thing people always

One thing people always overlook

LET THE WHEELS DO THE WORK

Wheels are very easy to dodge. They are always a character-width apart. And they hurt enemies. LET them hurt enemies. Don't destroy the generators until all enemies are dead.

Trojans also hurt other enemies. Try to hide behind barriers while they smash slags.

Also, in D27, take the totems with you They help against the final 2 trojans immensely if you have a teammate who knows how to place them.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 08:54
#14
Fradow's picture
Fradow
I don't agree Batabii. It's

I don't agree Batabii. It's easy to get hit by a wheel because of a lag, error of positionning, or just inattention. On the other hand, the wheels do minimal damage to zombies and can push them into totem range.

That's enough reasons to destroy generators quickly and doing the work yourself. It reduces greatly the number of things to avoid.

The other points are good, i never used the totems for D27, but why not, the trojans sure are annoying.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 11:41
#15
Cobriliant's picture
Cobriliant
@batabii

yes some people do bring along the totems to block the trojans in for the last wave of d27 but once again it's not the most efficient way of doing things. Obviously, the main problem is that by bringing totems into that level is that you make it two three times as hard to kill all the zombies. If you place the totems to block the Trojans, you end up covering half the room with those purple circles which makes killing the zombies really annoying.

I've tried it both ways and as a self proclaimed experienced FCS runner I can tell you that it's faster/easier to just do d27 normally and just kill the Trojans quickly.

--cobriliant

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 22:43
#16
Batabii's picture
Batabii
"It's easy to get hit by a

"It's easy to get hit by a wheel because of a lag, error of positionning, or just inattention."

Lag, sometimes, but if you have the other problems, you aren't ready for FSC.

"the wheels do minimal damage to zombies and can push them into totem range."

The wheels do huge damage to zombies and can push them away from you. And you should MOVE the totems so they are behind a forcefield, far away.

"That's enough reasons to destroy generators quickly and doing the work yourself. It reduces greatly the number of things to avoid."

It increases greatly the amount of work you need to do.

"Obviously, the main problem is that by bringing totems into that level is that you make it two three times as hard to kill all the zombies. If you place the totems to block the Trojans, you end up covering half the room with those purple circles which makes killing the zombies really annoying."

Here's a video that shows approximately how I place the totems in the final room (I can't believe how hard it is to find any videos that actually bring them with)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7pXxFUM_PU
if you block the trojans correctly, 2/3 of the room is clear of their Arise radius. It's far easier to deal with the slags first than have them bashing around, and you have a chance to heal without them breaking the blocks.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 23:53
#17
Fradow's picture
Fradow
"Lag, sometimes, but if you

"Lag, sometimes, but if you have the other problems, you aren't ready for FSC."

inattention happens to everyone. Even more when they are more damaging sources to keep track of.

And if you aren't able to take care of some extras zombies, you aren't ready for FSC either.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 01:01
#18
Batabii's picture
Batabii
It's not about being ABLE to

It's not about being ABLE to kill them, it's about making things easier in the long run. This is literally the hardest non-shadow-lair area in the game, you have no one to blame but yourself if you can't pay attention.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 05:44
#19
Eeyup's picture
Eeyup
Nobody is perfect. If you're

Nobody is perfect. If you're so perfect go and make a Vana solo with Proto armor since you're pro enough to not get hit (i know, it's already been done before and there is a video, but this guy is pro enough to do it with no damage).

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 11:50
#20
Batabii's picture
Batabii
I'm not suggesting anyone's

I'm not suggesting anyone's perfect, I'm saying you should pay attention to what's going on around you. It's not that complicated.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 14:57
#21
Aecarus's picture
Aecarus
A no-hit Vanaduke run with

A no-hit Vanaduke run with only Proto helm/armor? I find that to be a little bit redundant... If you don't plan on getting hit at all, then why would your helm/armor make any (defensive) difference in the first place? ;)

For the OP: these are some nice points. I would like to stress the final point for the actual boss battle (Vanaduke). Too many times I have (accidentally) managed to get my own team mates clubbed right in the face. (I can't help but let a little laugh slip every time it happens, though. xD )

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 15:30
#22
Eeyup's picture
Eeyup
Proto set for no bonuses such

Proto set for no bonuses such as Vog Cub's ASI and stuff like that... And to make it more risky if he gets hit.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 18:22
#23
Aecarus's picture
Aecarus
Another little thing...

I agree, the bonuses do make a huge difference, but note the word defensive: for solely defense, and nothing to do with offensive boosts, such as these bonuses. Technically speaking, you could wear full Virulisk (which has no offensive bonuses) and brag to the same extent as if to wear full Proto, assuming you manage to evade all forms of damage. As for "risk", in the case you do get hit: your hit-less run would be rendered meaningless (in terms of not being hit) anyhow, regardless of what type of defensive boosts you have. On the other hand, if you were to use a Proto Shield and Proto Sword/Gun - now that would be a completely different story. :)

Don't get me wrong: a hit-free run is an amazing achievement nonetheless, whether you do it in full UV'd gear or Proto.

Another little thing I've noticed a lot of in FSC lately is the misuse of Shivermist. You do not need to use Shivermist on every last Slag you encounter. In fact, you do not even need to use them with large groups of Slags - if you're in an experienced party able to manage crowd control with other more mobile methods, such as DA charges, which can get you through the stage much quicker. While it is very useful for the boss fight, Shivermist freezes monsters and renders the knock-back effect of many weapons useless. My point: do not overuse or misuse Shivermist. Maybe this is just my opinion as an experienced DA fighter, but I'm sure there are others who share the same annoyance when their DA projectiles continuously fail to throw back groups of Slags. o_o

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