Spiral Knights - DA or elemental brandish?

DA or elemental brandish?

29 replies [Last post]

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 13:51

Alynn

Right now, I have these weapons:

Ascended calibur, avenger, GW pulsar

After seeing many many people use elemental brandishes (Especially Glacius) I am wondering if its better to get a DA or an elemental brandish?

From the info I got from the wiki (which im hoping is correct), the damage of a DA is only slightly higher than Glacius.

is it worth to get that slight damage and a pretty cool charge attack from DA, or is it better to get a less damage, but faster attack and status effect on a Glacius?

professional opinion (and unbiased) plz

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 13:54

Alynn

oh and

i know people like to compare these weapons with their performance in FSC. While I do run FSC, I don't want opinions based solely on FSC.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 14:17

Poopsie

hmm..

I like combuster the most, even I like combuster more than acheron on jellies. The damage diff is easily closed by fire damage.
But obviously, combuster would be less useful in fire + FSC place.
also, a bit off topic...
I like flourish charge than acheron/combuster on gremlins. Flourish charge attack would almost likely kills any gremlins, with exception full health + 4 party members. But you could continue 5-hit combo like Charge Attack (3 hits) -> First Swing (1 hit) -> Final Swing (1 hit).
And somehow, I like combuster charge than any piercing sword on devillites.

DA charge has a little bit better damage on initial swords, it's true.
However, when you only counts regular attack, overtime... brandish is still better (if you manage to hit monster with full combo).

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 14:19

Bopp

well-covered topic

This topic is well-discussed. Search the forums for "DA brandish" or similar. The short version:

advantages of Glacius over DA:
faster, so easier to hit fast enemies and more opportunities to shield/dodge
more damage per second against a single target on regular attacks
charge attack freezes pretty often
charge attack lets you move at full speed

advantages of DA over Glacius:
more knockback, especially considering "plowing" effect of charge attack
longer reach, so more damage per second against tightly clustered enemies on regular attacks
more damage on charge attack

distinctions among Combuster, Glacius, Voltedge:
Combuster charge ignites (damage)
Glacius charge freezes (crowd control)
Voltedge charge shocks (half damage, half crowd control)

In FSC I prefer DA over Glacius, even though the cheats no longer work, because I frequently want to knock zombies away from me, I'm wearing double Vog Cub to speed up the DA, and I have Shivermist Buster for freezing.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 14:55

Alynn

wait

Glacius can only freeze with the charge?
and does avenger charge slow you down?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 15:06

Bopp

yes and yes

Yes, the elemental Brandishes inflict status only on the charge attacks.

Yes, Divine Avenger and Gran Faust force you to walk, not run, while you are charging them or holding them charged. People don't talk about this much, but I find that I really dislike this decreased mobility. And for a long time DA and GF were my two favorite weapons. Those days are gone...

And I hope you saw that a Brandish does more DPS on regular attacks than a DA does (at least against a single enemy).

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 15:16

Alynn

so....

what made you dislike DA? the spd decrease @ charge?

and is it a smart move to get both weapons? (DA and Glacius) Im a swordsman (planning to get 2 E. Sword focus modules) and i plan on spamming my weapon's charge.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 15:28

Bopp

the larger issue: piercing and shadow

The larger issue, which I didn't address above, is that you are working on Leviathan (normal), Divine Avenger (elemental + normal), Polaris (elemental), and you're talking about getting more elemental. Instead consider piercing and shadow.

Piercing weapons tear through fiends and beasts. It's really remarkable. For swords, consider Final Flourish and Barbarous Thorn Blade; they differ only in charge attack. Consider also Callahan, Blitz Needle, Dark Briar Barrage.

Shadow weapons are good against gremlins (which, because of the menders, are no joke) and slimes. I recommend Acheron over Gran Faust, but Gran Faust has its charm. Consider also Umbra Driver or Biohazard. The only shadow bomb, Graviton Vortex, isn't really about damage.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:06

Bopp

I still like DA

I still like DA, especially in FSC. But I use Glacius more frequently, in other parts of the Clockworks. In my mind, they're roughly equal. Glacius is fun in a hack-and-slash kind of way; DA is fun in a smooth, meditative sort of way. When I use Glacius and Acheron, I charge them really frequently. So probably the high mobility on charge attacks has influenced me. I'm not really sure, though.

I think that you should get piercing and shadow, before you get yet another elemental weapon. Really, I recommend that you get FF or BTB, and then Acheron. Acheron will help you decide whether you want an elemental Brandish. And even if you do get another elemental sword, you will not want to carry it at the same time as your DA; they're redundant.

If you're really itching to freeze things: Shivermist Buster.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:16

Alynn

no piercing sword for me lol

i hate piercing swords lol and im not getting one. My aim is horrible and the things that need a piercing weapon are the things that move and dodge. I know i can use the 1st attack and shield cancel but that just makes it feel like a heavy weapon. The charge on BTB isnt for me cause the range is too short and damage is low and no knock back. i hit and run mostly.

Archon will be my 3rd sword to make (1st my levi, then my elemental sword, then shadow sword)

I like hit and run style since i mostly solo things or run arenas with huge mecha knight mob chasing. I don't know if the DA charge spd is going to affect how well i can H&R but the glacius charge seems to be better at it (knights block and other things dodge the DA charge)

I guess the thing that it really comes down to is:
1. movement spd while charging
2. damage from charge
3. the amount of time it takes to charge

I know that some swords (like cutter) can charge faster than others. I don't know if theres a noticeable difference b/w DA and Glacius.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:20

#10

Mohandar

Some notes on the non-sword

Some notes on the non-sword pierce weapons:
The Callahan is notoriously hard to aim (I have autoaim off, because it interferes with my DA/GF swings). It also has somewhat mediocre DPS and a terrible charge attack, so if you go Callahan, you won't be winning any marks for speed. It is super fun to use though, especially if you want to feel like a sniper.
Blitz is somewhat limited, and much trickier to use. You'll be relying on the charge attack to one-hit KO Alphas and Trojans, but if you get the timing off, you will probably get hit hard. Less useful on Devilites as well, so I wouldn't recommend it as a main pierce weapon.
Dark Briar Barrage is the ultimate anti-wolver weapon. With a little maneuvering, you can keep a wolver pack safely knocked down indefinitely. Just be warned that the explosion (while not as bad as nitronome) can still be irritating to some, and it won't knock down Alphas.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:30

#11

Alynn

ya....

Callahan: maybe later after i get all my primary stuff
Blitz: FSC only lol
DBB: prob will never get it. I already got a freezing atomizer and I rarely use bombs.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:32

#12

Bopp

don't know about charge time

Alynn, I haven't really compared the charge times of DA vs. Glacius.

If my comments about walking while charging DA have you worried about kiting mecha knights, then don't worry. It slows you down to about their speed. So you just get slightly away from them (so that they don't catch you during the slight delay when you begin charging), and then you walk away while they follow you, and then you turn and unleash. If DA charge mobility made you slower than mecha knights, then people wouldn't regard DA as highly as they do.

Your aim with piercing swords will improve as you use them, so I still recommend them, but of course it's your call. Good luck.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:37

#13

Alynn

so do you?

do you walk around with a piercing sword? if so, how do you use it? unleash full combo, SC the 1st strike or charge spam?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 17:48

#14

Poopsie

eh auto-aim...

For auto-aim setup, I set auto-aim off but whenever I use gun that need precision, I have a habit holding shift. You shouldn't have problem with that. I did imf with fiery pepperbox, it's just so much fun. Blitz is not really limited on FSC only either.
And uh... I use all three styles on piercing sword, depends on what're you facing.
Most likely for me... SC -> first swing -> SC -> first swing for devillites + greaver, just mash right click button for wolver, always charge on gremlins.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:43

#15

Alynn

wait

what does holding shift do?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:44

#16

Poopsie

auto-aim

turning off or on auto-aim. If your default auto-aim is off, holding shift will activate, and the other way around.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 16:46

#17

Alynn

ohhh

thats useful.....i always have mine off cause it screws with my swings and when i try to hit b/w 2 targets with pulsar it auto-locks onto one of them

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 17:48

#18

Bopp

heck yeah a piercing sword

Yes, I definitely walk around with a piercing sword (except on certain boss levels). I use FF and BTB slightly differently (on two different characters). The FF's charge attack is harder to use. On both swords, I mostly use regular (not charge) attacks. I shield cancel a lot, and dodge a lot, and shield for protection some. But most of the time I'm not doing any of that; I'm too busy ripping the monsters apart. Piercing swords are truly awesome. Best wishes.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:01

#19

Broxaim

Alynn, you really should get

Alynn,

you really should get the BTB or FF as Bopp has suggested, you won't regret it.

the sword is actually VERY easy to use, the first swing of the sword has the same range and arc as the GF and DA. Much wider than the levi and brandish lines.
you can prove it in the ATH if you need, or ask one of us to show you.
the 2nd and 3rd attacks you'd only use if there were a few enemies.
i play with autoaim off, and that allows me to hit all 3 attacks from levi and BTB, you aim just a little to their side.
I haven't tried with brandish line swords yet.

the piercing swords are a must have for all swordies.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 08:46

#20

Alynn

ya..........

ya about that......i think il go with this setup for now:

Levi
DA
Archon
Polaris

maybe BTB later for spamming the charge attack >_<

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 15:03

#21

Poopsie

still talking

BTB charge is quite useless for me. I definitely pick FF for charge.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 15:39

#22

Alynn

actually

i dont think iv seen the FF charge before....

but BTB's AoE charge seems more appealing to me

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 16:21

#23

Birgus

Lol, I chose the Snarbie over

Lol, I chose the Snarbie over Flourish for the charge attack.

I third Bopp and Broxaim, when you get around to the Piercing sword you'll tear through Fiends much quicker. I guess if you have a problem with hitting them, the piercing swords should also have an advantage- they are much faster than heavy swords yet cover similarly huge arcs with good reach on the first attack. I'm a little late to this party, but I guess the way I most often use mine is two attacks and a shield-cancel, though I also cancel on the first or go full combo often based on how much I think I can get away with. In arenas or any other situation where I do not feel confident getting close, the barb-throwing charge attack comes in really handy. I leave auto-target on so I can see whether targets are in attack range, but have auto-target on right mouse so it's easy to suppress it. As far as I can tell, Brandish and Calibur feel the same in terms of attack size, area covered, timing, etc. except for the charge attack, which is much different. Since you have Leviathan and DA, you are in a good position to judge which Shadow sword is better for you. Based on your thread here it looks to me like the Acheron's charge attack will be useful for you since it's pretty good for kiting when you need/want to.

Elemental is the most recommended type for a first gun, and I agree with that. As long as you have any non-Elemental weapon equipped with your Elemental Pulsar, you should be able to handle anything assuming you are good at using both. The most optimal approach is probably to cover all 3 damage types with whichever weapons you feel most comfortable with and cover at least two with each loadout, but focusing on Normal damage can still work fine. Normal-type guns get less respect, but I have come to think they deserve better based on how often I use my Kilowatt Pulsar against Slimes and Fiends, my Piercing guns against Gremlins and Undead, and my Toxic Catalyser against Constructs. The bonus damage is nice, but not as crucial as some seem to think and being able to attack anything you can hit is nice too.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 16:34

#24

Alynn

wow...

can't believe i just spent a min reading all that

lol joking thanks for the in depth info

im still not ganna get a piercing sword till much later

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 18:02

#25

Villainus

Brandishes pwn DA's

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 06:43

#26

Alynn

^
wanna elaborate on that?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 07:40

#27

Sorou

Personally, I use the DA & GF

Personally, I use the DA & GF combo. I find that the argument is a lot like choosing the Prismatech over the other alchemers: the damage bonus isnt worth sacrificing a potential status inflict. I mean, yes, the DA charge attack is absolutely devastating, but Brandish swords also do elemental and you get the good chance of status. Don't get me wrong; with the right maneuverability, you can take down just about anything without too much trouble with this combo, but its just not as good as it could be. I shouldnt have to speed up my sword to make it comparable to other, faster ones.

I just realized it sounds like I'm bashing DA. xD

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 08:12

#28

Zealousd

As somebody who's extensively

As somebody who's extensively used both DA and Glacius, here's the skinny. Neither is really better than the other, but they're better at different things.

1.) A brandish has better single target DPS than DA.
2.) A DA has better DPS when dealing with groups of enemies. It also has a built in knockback, which can also be useful when dealing with groups of enemies.
3.) DA's charge attack has some incredible utility when dealing with large groups of enemies. This is especially useful in areas like FSC or arenas. In fact, any time I plan to do an arena I always carry a DA to make the very last wave in the third area a snap.
4.) Glacius charge attack has great crowd control utility when you're solo in a construct stratum. It can be a pain dealing with multiple constructs in a clockworks stratum (especially retrodes) so freezing one or two in place while attacking another can be extremely helpful.

If you want to break it down even further, you can say that each one is better at killing certain than the others.

Divine Avenger: Zombies, Mechaknights, Scuttlebots
Glacius: Spookats, Retrodes, Lumbers, Roarmulus Twins

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 08:20

#29

Alynn

since i do FSC

for the purpose of making crowns in FSC, im ganna get a DA first lol