Spiral Knights - The risks of trading (new people should check this out)

The risks of trading (new people should check this out)

24 replies [Last post]

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:23

Bleek

Legacy Username

So as I play more, I see the number of people being lured into scams increase.

Essentially, the scam starts as a promise to craft an item for someone for a set price or not. The person who wants the crafted item must trade the crafter all the necessary materials, crowns, and crystal energy. It is then expected of the crafter to make the item and trade it to the buyer.

But here's the deal people, that's basically a game of Russian roulette. You may find a trustworthy crafter, Swordy and Tysta being a few I know, but then you may find someone who will take all the stuff you gave them, log off, and that's that. You'll be out all the materials, money, and energy. And as far as people have told me, there's nothing that can be done about it (to be edited)

So my advice to all of you out there who want to perform these actions but don't want to get scammed, it's a very risky gamble. Your best bet would be to only have trusted friends of yours craft items for you like this. Or look around for someone well known who crafts items for people and doesn't steal all the stuff to make the item(s).

I ask this of the community: in a slight, maybe futile, effort to help new or not players, list some people you know that are willing to craft for others, with or without a service fee (charging a little extra for doing the crafting), in this thread.

For now, I'll name myself. I'm not the most pro player nor have I begun to make runs into Tier 2, but I do have access to some decent recipes that would help any of you new players.

My current recipes:
((Sword))
-Calibur
-Tempered Calibur
-Troika
((Handgun))
-Autogun
-Blaster
-Super Stun Gun
((Bomb))
-Blast Bomb
-Super Blast Bomb
-Master Blast Bomb
((Helm))
-Cobalt Helm
-Wolver Cap
((Armor))
-Cobalt Armor
-Wolver Armor
((Shield))
-Defender
-Great Defender
-Mighty Defender
-Owlite Shield

All you need to do is whisper me (/tell) in game and tell me what you want. I ask that you provide all the necessary materials, crowns, crystal energy, and an additional 1000 crowns for items who's recipe costs more than 1000 crowns. (example, Master Blast Bomb) For items who's recipes cost lower than 1000 crowns, I won't charge anything additional.

If anyone else wants to do the same, they can post here their recipes and prices, I have no problem with competition.

Thanks for reading!

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:26

Fractals

Legacy Username

Agreed that trading is prone

Agreed that trading is prone to scams.

However, to say "don't trust the other guys, only buy from me and my buds" seems a little... I dunno, cartel-ish?

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:28

Bleek

Legacy Username

That's not really what I'm

That's not really what I'm implying, Fractals. I guess it'll be hard for me, or anyone for that matter, to establish reliability without seeming like we're trying to monopolize off that trust.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:32

Fractals

Legacy Username

I know. I just don't know how

I know. I just don't know how to say, "I'm reliable! I'll help you out and won't screw you over!" without also sounding thuggish myself. It's a fine, fine line.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:34

Bleek

Legacy Username

Indeed it is. Though it's one

Indeed it is. Though it's one I'm willing to walk down to help my friends and others. Can't get no where without taking a chance and trying.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:35

Conrad500

Legacy Username

And I'm not trustworthy!?

And I'm not trustworthy!? Tysta is like, my protégées

Also, that's called scamming and is a reportable offence

People can't just steal your stuff and log out. Well, they can, but the agents are here to set them straight :) (they can see EVERYTHING)

AND, if you want people to buy your services, that's what the bazaar is for. This is probably even likely to get moved there you advertiser in other forums person you!

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 15:58

Notbob

Items I can make

I'll add myself to this list of people willing to craft. In general, I'd be doing this as a favor to the community, so I won't necessarily charge anything above cost. I'll post at the end items I want crafted, so all I'd ask is that if I'm crafting something for you, see if you can craft something I need in return, or can provide uncommon materials for the item that I may need. If you see me on, send me a message. If not, send me a mail in-game and I'll respond when I can.

Can make (edited to only include items I can trade back...):
Swords:
* Calibur
* Tempered Calibur

Bombs:
* Crystal Bomb
* Rock Salt Bomb

Helms:
* Cobalt Helm
* Spiral Demo Helm

Armor:
* Cobalt Armor
* Solid Cobalt Armor
* Spiral Demo Suit
* Fused Demo Suit

Shields:
* Defender
* Jelly Shield

------------------
My wants (will update as they change):

Helms:
* Fused Demo Helm

Shields:
* Brute Jelly shield

As a side note, I'm looking to buy recipes for the following:
* Cold Iron Vanquisher
* Heavy Demo Helm
* Bombastic Demo Helm
* Heavy Demo Suit
* Bombastic Demo Suit
* Rock Jelly Shield
* Royal Jelly Shield
* Cryo Driver
* Hail Driver

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:43

Bleek

Legacy Username

Conrad, I think you need to

Conrad, I think you need to relax and not take this so personally.

1. I asked people to name others they deem as trustworthy. I never said anyone else wasn't reliable.

2. Please look carefully at what I posted and look for the "(to be edited)" portion. This means when I have come across more solid confirmation that the staff of Spiral Knights handles scam issues, I will edit my post accordingly.

3. Though a part of my thread is somewhat of an offer for service, the main focus is to help other players. I am both educating and offering help. If you wish to view what I am saying in a more cynical way, that's your prerogative. I will leave it up to who moderates these forums to accurately place my post.

I would appreciate it if you took a less harsh tone.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:51

Metaknight

i craft for others, havent

i craft for others, havent asked anyone to craft for me yet, but i would never rip anyone off like that. thats lowlife material (0 stars).

i would just advise reporting players who pull anything like that and let the dev team handle security. im sure they can right your wrongs.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:54

Negimasonic

This topic is pretty much the

This topic is pretty much the same as this...
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/2959
just without the part about not for profit (and I suppose its intended for any star level).

Anyway, since this version is slightly different, let's just say I'm in on this one as well. But I don't feel like bothering to copy/paste everything I wrote in the other thread yet since I've gained even more recipes since I wrote that.

Also check out my shop (cross promotion hehehe)
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/2330

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 11:28

#10

FossaFerox

Legacy Username

Last I checked scamming

Last I checked scamming someone like the OP is describing was a bannable offense. Considering how obtrusive the "Complain" button is when you click on someone and how easy it is to open a support ticket, I'm pretty sure the risk for getting ripped off is minimal.

That being said, promoting an atmosphere of fear is never a good idea. I've never heard of or seen anyone get scammed and I've had stuff crafted for me and crafted for other people tons.

I think I made 17 different guns for people yesterday alone.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 11:56

#11

Choja

Legacy Username

Disco Magic

When someone asks me to craft an item for them with their materials, I think "okay then", craft the item in advance, and when the customer adds the materials in the trade, the item suddenly pops up.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:11

#12

GodTaz

Legacy Username

Indeed. People should be able

Indeed. People should be able to trust each other in this community.

Sure, it's better be to safe than sorry.. But I'd also say it's better to have a trusting community than a cynical one. Not only is it just a nice environment, but it's easier. It can be a pain to find someone with that one recipe you need as things are; You basically have to rely on 'randoms'. If you were to close yourself off to only those you're certain you can trust, then you're screwed if they don't have a certain recipe you need, or they're not online.

Personally, I've never been ripped off, and majority of my crafting has been done by total strangers, who don't even ask to be paid. They just do it out of good will. If a time comes when some scrub decides to run off with my stuff, I'll report them, send out some warnings, until I'm sure they're banned. Friends and/or guild members would likely help out a bit with whatever I lost and I'd be on my way again.

Besides, it's not like you can lose huge amounts of anything. As far as I know, all 4* and 5* require level 5+ or 10 equips to be made. The only way a random crafter is going to be getting those is if you ask them to actually level the equip up for you. At that point you can start feeling cynical, because leveling up an equip actually takes a bit of time, effort and energy. Any random who immediately agrees to do that for you is worthy of your suspicion.

Otherwise? Relax. Try to have faith in the community. If it goes bad, report the person, spread the word that someone's ripping people off, and try to get your stuff back. Chances are the stuff they could run off with is only worth a few thousand crowns anyway. Not enough to risk losing their entire account for, and not too difficult for you to earn back.

Also, note that all energy trades are actually logged. This means that if the person who scammed you tried to trade his gains to a main account, GMs could probably trace it without problem. The energy log alone suggests they take "energy" quite seriously, likely because you can buy it with real money.

You can see your energy history here: https://billing.spiralknights.com/billing/coin_history.wm

It doesn't include how you spend mist energy though, as that can't be bought or traded.

So!

Newbs and vets alike, please don't give up on people so soon, and.. Sorry for the essay.

- Tazurin

P.S.: Hi, Choja. :3

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:12

#13

FossaFerox

Legacy Username

Tazurin, I sell both 4 and 5*

Tazurin, I sell both 4 and 5* gear to people who may consider me "random".

I charge money to level up the lower versions, but so far I've sold two 4* and one 5* gun.

*shrug*

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:18

#14

Icee

Just don't do it, trust no one.

In general, it's just better not to have other people craft for you. Get the recipes yourself. Learning recipes is a fun goal in itself, and it will allow you to avoid scammers completely.

Never confirm a trade unless you are happy with the trade as is, assuming no future trades will happen. Scamming is easy, and even if the perpetrator is punished, it'll ruin your night to have to deal with it. Playing more and saving crowns to craft yourself is a better option.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:22

#15

FossaFerox

Legacy Username

Icee, keep your paranoia to

Icee, keep your paranoia to yourself please. It is standard practice these days for devs to ban offenders and refund victims in a matter of hours. There is no risk to trusting someone as long as a deal is arranged ahead of time.

Also, the cost of making a 3* piece of equipment is the same whether or not you spend 6.5k on recipes you probably don't actually care about once you have your gear.

Some of us are crafters for the sake of crafting. I've spent hundreds of thousands of crowns on recipes, many of which I have no intention of ever building for myself. I do it for people who don't have the time to do recipe runs for days on end but want a particular gun. Telling them not to trust me, or people like me, is insulting.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:30

#16

GodTaz

Legacy Username

@FossaFerox Right, but you're

@FossaFerox

Right, but you're charging them for your time and effort.

I'd be wary of someone who agrees to level my equip for free in addition to taking all my stuff, unless I knew them is all. I'm not saying you can't trust someone who offers the same, only that at that point should you start questioning how much you trust them, because then the stakes are getting a bit higher.

@Icee

Learning every recipe can be a personal goal, sure. But are you going to use every recipe? I really doubt it. Chances are, people who take on the goal of learning every recipe intend to do so to craft for other people. They'd become the very people you're telling them not to trust.

Besides, recipes are expensive, and the gate vendor only have a chance of having what you want, meaning you could be wasting time and energy trying to find that upgrade for your hat, in addition to the crowns you have to spend on it.. whereas you could've trusted that nice fellow in Haven, who'd already bought the recipe and would've been more than happy to craft the item for you, if only to feel like he'd helped someone out.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:35

#17

Icee

Learn the recipes you want to use

You don't have to learn every recipe. Check out the wiki and decide which gear you're going to want in the future, then learn those recipes.

Yeah, it's expensive, but what fun is a game without challenging goals? If you want everything RIGHT NOW, you're not only going to open yourself to scammers, but you'll rob yourself of fun achievements (plus extra chances for unique variants).

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:39

#18

ajericho

Legacy Username

Thought about this for a

Thought about this for a while. And though I started with "be very, very sure of the person's reputation", I'm going to weigh in on the side of "don't be paranoid and remember you can report the offender to the mods via in-game support and they will get so banned". Even though I am myself a very quietly paranoid person, I've not been ripped off in the times I've had others craft items for me, and these are random people I don't know at all.

I eventually want to "pay it forwards" and also craft non-leveling-required items for free. I imagine a lot of people feel similarly.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:44

#19

Zedoshi

Legacy Username

Choja, the problem with that

Choja, the problem with that is I've had plenty of people 'change their minds' because either they don't want to pay anymore, found someone cheaper, or in one case where the person admitted it, is a douche.

Too much gambling involved for me. I'll stick to just selling the items.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 12:46

#20

viscrom

Legacy Username

Given how valuable CE and

Given how valuable CE and crowns are and how necessary crafting is I'm not sure why the game devs didn't just use a different type of trading interface.

They could have easily put in a crafting window somewhere in the trade window where you can enter mats/ce/crowns in that special area which allows the recipient to use them to craft something but if the trade window is closed then the original player gets back his original mats/ce/crowns. Both parties lose the mats/ce/crowns once the item has been crafted (it would automatically transfer the item once crafted, this way you can't cheat the system and just cancel it if you didn't get a unique).

It would be similar to an escrow service basically and no one would have to worry about getting scammed.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 14:25

#21

Kaybol

Legacy Username

no refunds

FossaFerox: It is standard practice these days for devs to ban offenders and refund victims in a matter of hours. There is no risk to trusting someone as long as a deal is arranged ahead of time.

Wrong. Please see http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Complain section Wrong Trade:

Because Game Masters can't know what the agreement with the trade was, they are not able to assist players in this aspect of the game and do not recover items for players. Try to talk to the other player and work it out instead. Please remember in the future to be careful and never trade anything away unless you would be okay with the other player not returning the item.

In other words: there is a very real risk in trading with strangers. Giving someone your items in exchange for a promise opens you up to scamming. The scammer might get banned, but you still pay the price. FossaFerox, you can accuse others of spreading paranoia, but you're spreading a false sense of security yourself.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 16:56

#22

Shoebox

If someone asks for tips, don't craft from them.

I made a thread to craft lower star items for new players just for the cost of crafting.
If you guys are anti-scam and want to help, then contribute.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/2959

It'd probably be a better idea if I moved it to the General Discussion since no new players actually go to the New Recruits forum.
But I've helped a few people using the thread.

Note: I don't really want to include any 3-star or higher crafting in that thread, because it's a thread to help new players get started, not get them fighting the Jelly King on day one.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 19:26

#23

Negimasonic

*cough*

Crafted two things for tips today >.> In my defense though, at least two of them weren't new players and technically I didn't ask...I said I could make it and a tip would be nice (they were looking specifically for a crafter) lol

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 19:29

#24

Dorael

...

I sold an avenger to someone today. They put all their CE in the box and hit confirm before I even put the sword into the trade box. Even after I informed them of it I'm still not sure they knew... well, anything. Anything at all.

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The risks of trading (new people should check this out)