Spiral Knights - New yet very simple pvp: Duel

New yet very simple pvp: Duel

24 replies [Last post]

Mon, 11/07/2011 - 03:18

Zephyrgon

Ok so here it goes. I've been playing a lot of lockdown games recently and have gotten pretty sick of it. Most of it is just kinda luck, if you have more wolvers on your team you have high chance of winning. This of course does not apply to T1, but still. So my idea is a nice 1v1 type of thing called a Duel in which players sign up to fight other players. Here's how it will work:

1)Players click the crossed-swords icon for pvp, and mark themselves as open for dueling. This way, people who don't want to duel don't get spammed by lotsa messages.

2)Players pay a 200 crown fee to participate.

3)Players then "challenge" another person who has marked themselves open for dueling by clicking their knight and by clicking "Challenge".

4)If the player accepts, they will be immediately transported into a 1v1 arena(preferably just a square). This is where they will battle it out.

5)The victor will win 300 crowns, and the loser gets none.

6)They are returned to their respective havens, and if they want to continue, must mark themselves as open for dueling again.

Also this is divided by tier, so a T1 person doesn't have to fight a T3 person and get flooded with invites.
Feel free to comment on this idea.

Mon, 11/07/2011 - 08:16

Madadder

bad idea in the simple reason

bad idea in the simple reason that the match would be decided on one or two hits and the present threat of Skolver, gran faust, modules and heart trinkets

Mon, 11/07/2011 - 08:25

Kentard

Actually...

If you want the PvP to be skills-based, fix the equipment available for use. Like give them a fixed set of weapons that are balanced out, e.g. trading off damage for speed or inflicting statuses, so that it actually is dependent on skill.
And yes, unless you can find a way to disable things like trinkets or fix these weapons, 1v1 is out of the question.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 04:50

Zephyrgon

UMMM

Balanced equips is called T1 or T2. Do you think that T3 lockdown has ANY skill to it? No. People who go Vog/Skolver will kill in this type of setting. Lockdown is unfair as it is.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 04:53

Zephyrgon

Also

If you read the article, it's balanced by tier. T3 is basically the only place with really messed up trinkets. 1v1 is very fun. If you really want a game of pure skill, try this idea out with T1 gear. T3 pvp is broken as it is. I don't participate in this type of messed up stuff.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 06:10

Kraanx

ive noticed, btw

i like the idea, but maybe you could put in floor traps,rockets etc to make it more fun.
btw, anyone else noticed that since t3 LD is such a flop t3 ppl are suddenly entering t2 with trinkets, 4 weps and full dusker?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 09:14

Kentard

Nuh-uh.

You take a look at the number of T2 players with Snarbles/Sealed Swords and Duskers. You tell me if that's balanced.

I honestly don't know about T1 'cos I don't play it, but given that there's less equipment options available, perhaps it might be balanced out.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:42

Daiq

Maybe start with 21 vitas for both sides, no vials, and regular shields/weapons as is. I feel like this would be totally swordie dominated, but it'd still be fun. So +1 :)

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 16:55

Zephyrgon

Bump

I just feel that this idea must be heard.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 17:43

Orangeo

-1

"Balanced equips is called T1 "
Uhh, nope. I play T1 with a medium ASI heavy hatchet and a +2 heart pendant. Every peice of gear I use has a useful medium UV, and is level 10. 50% of T1 PVP players are T3.
"...or T2"
T2 is balanced, but that's becuase everyones the same. Dusker + sword + pulsar. I recall a pal of mine calling it the china stratum.... dusker joke?....

Duel would be almost like straight up rock-paper-scisors. There are 4 damage types in PVP (normal counts there), so you have a 3 out of 4 chance of using a weapon that your opponent has no defense against, assuming each person uses pure defense armor and pure damage weapons. Of course, since that would mean that you only have a 1/4 chance of having useful defense, EVERYONE would get weapon armor, since you have a 100% chance of making good use of a weapon buff if you use a corresponding weapon.
That means everyone has great offense and bad defense, turning it into a latency based fight to see who can spam autoaim first.

The current objective of PVP is to get the right guys in the right spot. Lots of flourish users on base 1? Send in some jelly mail guys. See a guy beating on your allie with no shadow defense? Use your gran faust. Not everyone has every peice of gear though, so you gotta group up and send in the best team you can. It's kind of like SD gundam capsule fighter. Each unit is rock, paper, or scissors based. If your unit base beats a targets unit base, then you deal more damage. So if you're a rock traveling with a scissors, and you come accross a paper and another scissors, you go for the scissors and let your buddy kill the rock. Keep orginized.

If you play 1 on 1 however, you cant call in your buddy and go kill someone else. There's nothing to orginize. No points to cap. No strategy. No skill. To some extent, you can use moves like circling around with striker, sheild canceling with guardian, or using the recon death mark, but as PVP in this game has displayed gear is already greater than skill.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 19:44

#10

Dark-Flare

So while you guys talk about how unbalanced PvP is...

You could make a certain area specifically for dueling, say you enter this zone where you can challenge people to a duel. It's purely for fun, no cost to join, no gain or loss from winning/ losing. Purely for the point of killing each other. You could also choose your arena, stratum type, etc.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 20:12

#11

Haematite

Possible farming with

Possible farming with multiple accounts

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 16:59

#12

Zephyrgon

Gud point

Maybe they should implement this as a free service then. Lockdown, pvp, is never balanced because people always will have more than others. People who got more money in this case. Take heart pendants for example. They aren't op. Most people just complain simply because they cannot afford them, and get rolled by people who do.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:08

#13

Zephyrgon

Maybe

They should be also able to do this in teams of four i guess. Orangeo u do make a good point. 1 v 1 is pretty cool though. You get to test ur mettle against another. I'm not saying, however, that u should go fight people better than u. U pick on ones who are, well, less skilled.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:52

#14

Slayzz

I think 1v1 would be very

I think 1v1 would be very cool. I was actually thinking that there could be a training hall sized map, and the three classes would be available. After the countdown, both players would be stuck with their class. They would fight around shock pads, rockets, and other various things to beat each other. And to make it fair, trinkets would not work, each person would have the same star armor and weapons, and there would be a 50 vitapod to start for each. (no healing pads, and no safety zones).
This could be like a setup where the teams both have players in a lineup, and the players are paired based on equipment. Then they could have a duel, and the other players of each team could watch their player until they win/die. Then the next pair would enter.
Thus is my take on how duels would work. The lack of trinkets would mean no excessive heart bonuses, no trinkets based DMG/speed bonuses, etc. The match for each Player would last 3 minutes too. Max of 5 players per team.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:19

#15

Effrul

Hang on, weren't 1-on-1 duels

Hang on, weren't 1-on-1 duels (a) in the Preview and (b) terrible?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:22

#16

Orangeo

"You could make a certain

"You could make a certain area specifically for dueling, say you enter this zone where you can challenge people to a duel. It's purely for fun, no cost to join, no gain or loss from winning/ losing."
Hmm, I can dig it. +1. Though it not altering crowns/energy puts it lower on the priority list, it's there.

My point was you can beat someone who, star wise, outmatches you with the right gear. Like using a snarble barb on a plate guy. So if the guy with the plate mail just activated ice queen mail outa no where, you'd get done in. Unless you had a troika. Then he's activate plate mail, and you'd have to change back to snarble. Then you'd keep switching, and switching, and etc....

So you'd assume that to solve that you'd just lock all armor. Then it's just a one-sided battle, and if you have the wrong gear, you're screwed. So defense is out the window since the chances of it working are random. Everyone gets weapon buffing gear and four weapons slots. With all four damage types.

So eveyrone's gonna have sklover/gran faust/divine avenger/thorn blade/sudarsuka/sword trinkets. And They'll charge up and whack each other in about one second or less.

(Also, semi-off topic, I think "ultiment" pvp would be cool. Basicaly make it so you can't use trinkets/uv's in anything other than that.)
So gear = fail. Changing gear would be changed constantly, unchanging would create one-sided battles or an instakill game. The solution is to make the gear less valuable, and imply some kind of tactic.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 23:56

#17

Fehzor

I rather like this idea, of some kind of dueling arena type thing. Especially if its between 2 selectable people, like in a Haven. Like in the drop down inspect|trade|whatever thing. Random match by tier would also be cool.

I remember waaayy back when I played Runescape, there was a popular arena like this->

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Duel_Arena

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 04:50

#18

Zephyrgon

HMMM

I guess Duel should be free to prevent money grinding. 1v1 sounds a lot of fun. So what if people outclass your gear? Then u go pick on people your own size. Then these people will go pick on people their own size too.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 04:51

#19

Zephyrgon

What i like is the FREEDOM to choose

Knights should be able to pick people they want to fight. That's why i suggested this.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 05:06

#20

Hiromon

To make this work well

If you want to do this you will nedd to ban sertan weps eg Divine avenger Grand fuast

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 12:50

#21

Orangeo

Yes, it being free would be

Yes, it being free would be ok. Though that would make it seem less important to developers, since it dosent influence people to buy CE or alter the trade price.
Wouldn't PVP be hard for you zeph? You use virlisk to my knowlage, and the medium bonus is just about wasted, unless you encounter a rock jelly.
Banning weapons is a no-no. DA and gran faust aren't even OP, they take skill to use, other than when you use it to kill recons.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 16:36

#22

Zephyrgon

1v1

What i lack in equips, i make up for with skill. That should be the main idea of pvp.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 20:19

#23

Orangeo

Sadly, it isn't. Sure, a

Sadly, it isn't. Sure, a person with salamander can beat a person with volcanic salamander, and person with ash tail could beat a sklover. Though it dosen't work that way. It's like trying to play rock papper scissors with only rock. Your enemy will simply just always chose paper.

I guess duels could work well with all items converted to normal damage or something. There could be plate mail, regular armor, and normal-only weapon armors. Plus all weapon types, but with pure normal. That kiiinda takes the gear out of the equation, since everyone faces the same tradeoff. I'm sure plenty of people can form plenty of reasons why that would be boring however.

Skill can only go just past the value of a tiebreaker or the equivalent of using higher rated gear of the same type. It can't give you anyhting else in lockdown, however much a flaw that may be. It's not the strength of the gear that matters, it's the type. Skill makes you stronger, but it dosen't change your abilities, it only increases what you have.

No matter how much skill you have with say, vog, or how much elemental defense you may have, flourishes still deal the same damage. Skill would matter in a fight with vog vs a elemental weapon prehaps, but not anything else. There are four damage types, so your skill has a 25% chance of being really useful.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:57

#24

Dando-Real-Ita

Just bring a voltaic tempest

Just bring a voltaic tempest and ash of agni bomb. I still haven't seen someone who resists to both.

I would say duels inside the normal lockdown, as in tf2 ( counters of A vs B kills )

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New yet very simple pvp: Duel