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Sword idea: Ghost blade

21 replies [Last post]
Wed, 11/09/2011 - 17:23
Nicoya-Kitty's picture
Nicoya-Kitty

Upgrade on the Cutter/Striker line. Regular blade is replaced with an ethereal "ghost" blade. Same two hits per attack pattern as the Cutter/Striker. Pure shadow damage, zero knockback, high chance to interrupt and will not unfreeze frozen enemies.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 18:10
#1
Aula's picture
Aula
Yes

I like the idea of adding a ghost sword to the arsenal. I like the descriptions as well. I support this idea.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 18:17
#2
Thimol's picture
Thimol
-----

Also high chance to curse user.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 19:18
#3
Heavy-Duty's picture
Heavy-Duty
...

Meh. Goes against the freeze condition, a cog of the game, but a minor one. Isn't that what T1 Phantoms might have? Want to elaborate?

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 21:15
#4
Nicoya-Kitty's picture
Nicoya-Kitty
@Thimol We already have the

@Thimol We already have the faust for that, no need to duplicate it here.

@Heavy-Duty I wouldn't say it goes against the freeze condition, it just adds a different dynamic to its use. The idea is that the sword is so ghostly that it passes straight through the enemy, doing damage on its way, but not actually physically striking anything to cause knockback or break a freeze.

The Phantom's weapon is more like a weird cross between an FoV (attack pattern and sword appearance), a Faust (curse chance) and, I dunno, a gun puppy (the pellet charge attack). This one would be much closer to the mechanics of the current cutter-line swords.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 22:24
#5
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
Shadow based cutter line

Shadow based cutter line might be interesting. If it did pure Shadow damage it might be really useful too. Personally think it should break freeze or it would be game breakingly abusable, especially in PvP.

~Gwen

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 22:38
#6
Helencroft's picture
Helencroft
Very interesting . . . but will it blend?

I look at this and I find the idea of a sword like that to be rather novel.

However, it'd probably be more appropriate to have it have a chance TO freeze than for it to not affect frozen mobs -- because, as much as I like the idea of not unfreezing that Gun Puppy that I'm back-attacking, at the same time there is (as Gwenyvier says) the potential for it to bork Lockdown sommat if it goes the way of 'I don't bust freeze'.

The 'zero knockback' bit, however, I don't even care if it affects or doesn't affect freeze by comparison -- I. Would. Love. That. Sword. To. DEATH if it didn't knock back monsters. Why? Because the past few days I've had the wonderful fortune to get multiple monsters knocked into me by fantastic geniuses, the most notable of which was the ATTACKING LUMBER that got knocked my way and proceeded to finish slamming the ground, resulting in me getting clubbed like a seal.

A no-knockback Shadow sword would be GLORIOUS. Whether it phases through Freeze or has a chance of Freeze (my justification for 'chance of freeze': ghosts are REALLY COLD sometimes, or alternatively 'it steals the body heat from its victims, leaving behind the cold of the grave') or does neither, anything beyond the zero-knockback is just icing on the evil cake.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 23:25
#7
Nicoya-Kitty's picture
Nicoya-Kitty
It would be fairly powerful

It would be fairly powerful in lockdown if it didn't break freeze, I'll admit that. On the other hand, you don't always want to kill frozen players; keeping them frozen forever keeps them out of the game forever, rather than just 15 or so seconds until they respawn.

Having it cause freeze instead, though, wouldn't be terribly useful since it would just quickly get rebroken due to the fast/double attack pattern. We don't need another Hail Driver fiasco.

A mix of the two might work, though: say a chance to cause freeze, and only a chance of breaking it. If it had a 10% chance to break freeze with each hit, a full 10-hit combo would have roughly a 65% chance of breaking the freeze.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 07:19
#8
Thimol's picture
Thimol
-----

@Thimol We already have the faust for that, no need to duplicate it here.

The way I see it, the sword is overpowered. I though that this effect would be apropos for the whole ghost theme. If not that, then maybe cut down on attack power, speed, or whatever?

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 12:30
#9
Nicoya-Kitty's picture
Nicoya-Kitty
@Thimol the cutter line is

@Thimol the cutter line is pretty underpowered right now as it is, so giving things a bit of a buff wouldn't be out of line.

The higher interrupt rate would make it much safer to use against a single monster, but would still leave you vulnerable when attacking a group, and with no knockback would give a high risk of getting swarmed if you're not careful.

As for the actual damage output, it's not like the DVS or WHB are known for being DPS monsters.

Also, curse on a cutter-style sword will kill you in less than a single combo. If you have a bit of lag (what, lag? in spiral knights?) you might not even know you're cursed before you're dead on the floor.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 12:33
#10
Theskyblade's picture
Theskyblade
OMG SHADOW CUTTER

yes! I accually came up with this a while ago and never posted! YES DEVS! Make tihs happen!

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 13:44
#11
Frostythepyro's picture
Frostythepyro
I am cool with everything

I am cool with everything except it not breaking freeze. You get hit, freeze is broken, anything less and freeze would be an instant "I win" against just about anything that can be frozen.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 17:13
#12
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
Cutter line weapons actually

Cutter line weapons actually do damage on par with other swords. If all 10 strikes actually hit (which they usually don't) you'll do more damage then other swords that do a comparable damage type, read Normal damage only. The difference is that since it is a 5 hit (technically 10) the damage per hit must be lower or they'll be OP.

All numbers are for the end of Strata 6.

DVS: 108 (62), 108 (62), 108 (62), 108 (62), 154 (62)... Final: 586 (310), or almost 900 actually IF all 10 strikes hit.
Levi Blade: 203, 203, 258... Final: 664
Sudaruska: 258, 321... Final: 579

I still like the idea of a Shadow Cutter though. :) It would be interesting and different and Goddess knows we need more Shadow and Piercing swords. Bypassing freeze would make it OP, and freezing would be useless... no knockback could be very interesting on it though. I hope this one gets made.

~Gwen

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 17:49
#13
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
+1

I'm liking this.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 06:56
#14
Thvxul
a shadow cutter sounds

a shadow cutter sounds intresting im for this sword

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 07:11
#15
Ozzfather
+ 1

Definitely something I'd like to see.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 07:42
#16
Shidara's picture
Shidara
Ghost Blade?

Yeah, it shouldn't be able to not break the freeze status, we can all agree on that.

No knockback sounds...odd. It's like you won't be able to move the enemy, but keep it stationary whilst you smack it silly. I suppose this could work, somehow.

High interruption sounds...very odd. Interruption, as I see it, is caused when a strike is powerful enough to cause the target to flinch. Devilites, Scuttlebots and Greavers are all very vulnerable to flinching, as taking damage whilst charging an attack immediately immobilizes them and they must recharge for the next attack. These mobs can also not be knocked over, for some reason. Otherwise, for enemies like Gremlins, Wolvers, Mecha Knights and T2 Retrodes and Zombies and turrets of any kind (and possibly lower tier Alpha Wolvers?) requires the last hit in a combo or a charge attack to interrupt their attack and knock them over. My reasoning for adding turrets to this category is because they are more easily interrupted than the mobs in the next category. T3 Retrodes and Zombies can not be knocked over, but instead flinch if hit by a powerful strike or combo'd for enough damage. The same goes for Lichens (effectivity range varies with size), Jellies, Alpha Wolvers, Phantoms and Kats. Technically, Lumbers fall under the same category, but their vulnerability frame is very small and you would be lucky to land an interrupting blow before they slam you, thus I consider these a higher tier. Trojans as well fall under this category, but I haven't done enough testing against these mobs (mostly because I mainly see them in the Citadel, where I am busy smooshing other things).
I rank them from Weak (first category), to Lightweight (second) to Sturdy (lastly mentioned).

The concept you're coming up with here is giving a low-damage, multi-strike sword the knockback factor equivalent to a Gran Faust/Divine Avenger, which seems very out of place.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 11:17
#17
Nicoya-Kitty's picture
Nicoya-Kitty
@Shidara Well, the idea is

@Shidara Well, the idea is for it to be a very ghostly sword, thus no knockback (since it's very ethereal). The high interrupt (not knockdown, just interrupt) keeps it from being completely unusable since most swords combine interrupt, knockdown and knockback to provide some level of defence against getting your knight's face bitten off. Since it's a low damage multi-strike sword with no knockback, it wouldn't normally be able to use any of those and would otherwise leave you completely vulnerable when attacking.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 12:16
#18
Shidara's picture
Shidara
Vocabulary level up!

So apparently I need to expand my vocabulary.

What I meant was adding the interruption rate would be kind of broken. (I used knockback instead, silly me) Say if we use the interrupt/knockdown rate of a Gran Faust/Divine Avenger, you interrupt with every other hit. Even with a Calibur/Brandish rate you have an interrupt every three hits. Considering the speed of this weapon, you could literally run up to any one enemy, spam the attack button and you will never get hit by that one particular mob. I don't think adding a high interruption rate would do much good, honestly. What if, say, the charge attack has a chance of causing stun? That way you're more likely to get out a full combo without getting nommed to pieces by anything you attack. The Cutter line is supposed to be swift and deal a lot of damage in a very short time-span, but due to its lack of interrupting/knockdown blows you can't just run up to an enemy and you'll automatically win. That's too easy and gamebreaking. You want a Shadow Cutter, in this case the Ghost Blade, but when you think about it, couldn't it simply function as a regular cutter with shadow damage? It is still desirable, even without any fancy effects. I just can't get myself to believe that adding a high rate for interrupting an enemy's attack for such a fast sword is anywhere near a good idea for the game, which is what I'm trying to get across.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 13:03
#19
Nicoya-Kitty's picture
Nicoya-Kitty
@Shidara I think it's just a

@Shidara I think it's just a matter of degrees. Right now with a cutter or striker there's a good chance you won't interrupt an attack if you try to go full combo on an enemy. By increasing the interrupt rate I merely suggest making it more likely than not that a full combo will interrupt the enemy before they attack you.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 13:08
#20
Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer
Ghost...?

Does it let you kill a ghost so you can steal its Ghost Chips?

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 16:20
#21
Shidara's picture
Shidara
You got it wrong.

Knockdown and interruption has nothing to do with chance; either your weapon can do it, or it can not.

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