Spiral Knights - Lockdown is unbalanced

Lockdown is unbalanced

18 replies [Last post]

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 01:59

Abita

Seeing as i refuse to play in a freezing/laggy fsc I thought Lockdown would be fun.

Unfortunately it is far from it because i dont have a piercing sword. Why is this thing not banned from lockdown? It does instant damage and has almost no swing time. Beyond that with auto aim turned on this thing is basically a short ranged gun on its third strike. Even with two haze bombs put down shock/stun they can still zoom in and hit me to death before they even get a status effect. I am not spending the ce just to be competitive.

Now i have almost no reason to even play this game. Just gonna log on and spend my mist until they either fix lockdown or the constant freezing/lag in this game. No need to play something that just frustrates me.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 02:41

Aljevoias

I play a fair bit of

I play a fair bit of Lockdown, all in T3. I see these threads and conversations pop up from time to time.

I don't think the problem is that Lockdown is imbalanced. Instead, I believe the issue is that the skill/equipment range in T3 Lockdown is too broad.

This isn't an issue in T1/T2 Lockdown because high quality gear is readily available and relatively inexpensive. But T3 Lockdown is dominated by players in fully heated all 5-star gear, with trinkets and the best UVs they can afford. These people play Lockdown regularly (if they didn't, they wouldn't gear specifically for it) and as such tend to be pretty skilled too.

But, if you're in this group, T3 Lockdown is actually pretty well balanced, at least when compared to other similarly-geared players. I think a better solution would be to separate T3 into upper/lower T3 for 4 and 5-star geared players. I'm not sure there's enough of a Lockdown-playing player population to make that work though.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 04:19

Kraanx

try a sword to supplement your bomb. a sword witth knockback

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 04:48

Zephyrgon

Duh

It's been unbalanced for quite a while. It's geared towards wolvers primarily. Any other armor sucks in comparison. If you want more survivability as a demo in lockwdown, consider getting a blast bomb.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 06:04

Glowing-Ember

People have been complaining

People have been complaining about (with good reason) the Flourish-style swords since Lockdown was in testing. I find it unlikely they'll be fixed, as OOO seems to care not at all about balance, even in PvE.

As for the locking up, it is fixable if you're patient enough to reclient and turn the graphics settings to low. Works for me, anyway.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 08:01

Volebamus

To mention, you will die

To mention, you will die significantly less against piercers when you avoid using the Striker shield, as the two other shields give you much more health to survive their barrage (compared to Striker, Guardian gives +12 more, and Recon gives +10 more) . Then you can just shield/invisible appropriately, and try to sneak in attacks when you see an opening.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 08:04

Xombie

BooHoo

"Now i have almost no reason to even play this game. Just gonna log on and spend my mist until they either fix lockdown or the constant freezing/lag in this game. No need to play something that just frustrates me." - Abita

Forum tantrum - For The Loss.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 09:42

Debianlinux

Balance is subjective

You say it is unbalanced, I say it is fairly well balanced.

Your argument is predicated on your existing equipment that you seem to be unwilling to change.
My argument is based on equipping what works best in this particular arena.

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight and then complain about it being unbalanced.
You don't go into T3 equipped in proto gear and call that unbalanced, do you?

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 09:59

Ampersand-Italic

Is that why you left halfway

Is that why you left halfway through the lockdown game last night, Abita? Right after complaining in the previous game about people quitting?

Here's the answer for you - skolver gear. Yeah I have a pierce sword and use it almost exclusively. I can take down anyone without pierce protection pretty fast, but against skolver I'm almost helpless. Similarly, I have no shadow protection, so faust/gran faust are pretty good at taking me out in a few hits.

There are checks and balances to everything.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 10:02

Ampersand-Italic

One more thing, Abita - with

One more thing, Abita - with your multitude of bombs, when we were on the same team, you made an excellent pairing with a sword-wielder. Alone you had little chance against a skilled swordsman/gunner, but I remember when sticking next to you as a sword-wielding guardian, we were unstoppable.

Reconsider your strategy if not your equipment.

Hope to see you in LD again soon (:

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 17:26

#10

Blitzwingoo

I think the biggest issue is

I think the biggest issue is when people leave, the team down a player always seems to get crushed.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 17:45

#11

Culture

Hmm

But Ampersand, is there actually a Rock-Paper-Scissors scenario in Lockdown? (My connection has been poor for some time now, so I've been staying away Lockdown for some time to avoid the inevitable frustration.)

If I'm in full Skolver people still whack me with a Flourish, it seems like its advantages override any defensive options. If they pull out a Gran Faust then they are going down, that thing is so slow it is easy to counter attack.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 17:51

#12

Nechrome

they should at least give

they should at least give piercing swords a damage reduction. they do loads of damage in half a second, and i think (Necro! Don't think! You'll hurt yourself!) that that's why they kill people so easily. if they do less damage, victims of piercing swords have a higher chance of not dying in 1 piercing sword attack combo. cause that's what happens to me. 3hitKO. in half a second. they should make them do...

i dunno, 50% less? maybe that's to much. or to little.

meh. just an idea.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 18:26

#13

Abita

I really do think I am done

I really do think I am done with this game for a while. And as to the guy above me I do re-client a lot and play on low graphics with everything turned off. Playing on a monster of a PC I built myself and on a super high speed connection with no router in the way it really isn't on my end. I have tried adjusting everything i could on java and tried multiple versions of java. Having the steam version doesnt help matters either. Still way too much freezing/lag to play the game fairly, more than half of the damage I take in fsc is do to that.

As for the lockdown thing I was just raging some but my point stands that unless you spec a certain way you will get ripped up by certain loadouts. How often have you seen someone getting over 15k damage and them not have a flourish type weapon. And btw I am a bomber and as long as you have a high enough attack speed and striker to close in quick you will NOT be affected by haze bombs, at least not until I am dead. And one more thing I have fully heated tier three gear with two max shadow trinkets and half piercing half elemental armor. Not of that makes a diffrence if you dont have a flourish type weapon to even things up. I guess the key is to just sellout to piercing and hope they dont switch to a slower weapon and one hit KO.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 19:47

#14

Aljevoias

"But Ampersand, is there

"But Ampersand, is there actually a Rock-Paper-Scissors scenario in Lockdown? (My connection has been poor for some time now, so I've been staying away Lockdown for some time to avoid the inevitable frustration.)

Sort of. The lockdown shields are far more influential on a person's general survivability than the gear they're wearing.

A good striker will dance in and out of melee range so quickly you'll never, ever hit them with a slow sword. But strikers have little health; a striker in full skolver takes 3 hits (4 if it's level 10 or they're using an HP/pierce trinket/UV), you still want to use a fast sword because if you use anything they'll stab you in the face.

OTOH you're not going to do anything to a guardian in full skolver with a pierce sword. This is why most T3 regulars carry both a pierce sword (BTB or FF) and a heavy sword (Gran Faust or DA). You need a gun or a fast sword to decloak good recons, but they have enough health that skolver will make a big difference in how long they can fight if you're hitting them with a pierce sword.

Other choices open up too - Callahan is crap everywhere except Lockdown and in the hands of a skilled gunner. Same with Stagger Storm and RSS if you're a bomber. You also see role-specific loadouts which may or may not be Skolver, guardians gear to tank rather than deal damage, strikers and bombers use Shadowsun or Mad Bomber, etc.

Like I said earlier, the balance is fine. The real problem is that the power difference between people with no trinkets and using mostly unheated 4-star gear and people in 100% level 10 5-star gear with Lockdown-appropriate UVs and using appropriate trinkets is huge, and the latter group composes the majority of people who play Tier 3 Lockdown regularly. It's a very difficult environment to get started in.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 23:00

#15

Kraanx

maybe its just your playing

maybe its just your playing style, abita. as amperand said, maybe you should stick with someone else.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 11:39

#16

Chris

Lockdown is actually pretty

Lockdown is actually pretty balanced.
Strikers with swords and UVs on their armor to avoid bomb status' are the only thing near OP.

For example... it takes MANY MANY MANY swings from a piercing sword to kill me when I'm in full skolver with heart pendants, but I die in 2 hits to a gran faust if the person has very high or max damage bonus.

Do some research into what gear gives what benefits in lockdown and you will be set.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 15:46

#17

Kilbride

Toughen up, friend.

I'm sorry that you're having a rough time in Lockdown, Abita.

It IS possible to compete with the really tough Striker-type players in Tier 2, but it requires an optimized loadout of your own. I have seen bomber and gunner combos do very well with the Recon class, but it requires a fair amount of technical ability and practice.

For myself, I play a Guardian almost exclusively and don't use a piercing sword. I will say that I am able to defeat VERY (IE, people in the top ten on the rankings...) good Strikers in 1v1 fights and sometimes 2-3 opponents at once, if I can control the tide of the battle. Victorious fights with multiple opponents are possible only through a kinky marriage of technical ability, 3* level 10 gear and 2* heart trinkets. I roll in fused demo with two swords, a bomb and a gun.

As for the beast that is T3 Lockdown, I haven't bothered with it for quite a long while. Perhaps when I get a Gran Faust maxed out. It's not nearly so forgiving as T2.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 16:05

#18

Nodocchi

Like Ajevoias said, shields

Like Ajevoias said, shields in lockdown make a huge difference in play style and survivability. I highly doubt any player would be able to kill a guardian haze bomber before being affected by the status. If you're playing striker be aware you are trading survivability for maneuverability. Expect to die in 2-3 hits because that's just how it is with Strikers. As well flourishes are horrible against guardians it takes a ton of hits to drop a shield's health and guardians can counter quite quickly. As well, yes some swords have higher DPS than other swords, but that isn't everything. There are many more factors to take into account when deciding on a weapon to use and flourishes are not the best swords for all situations.

Also, there certainly is a correlation between how much damage a player does and whether he/she owns a flourish, but it isn't entirely because the flourish is an OP sword, it is because good players recognize a good sword when they see one and those who have been gearing for PvP have had piercing swords for way longer than PvP has been around. In this case I am saying the correlation is due to good players owning flourishes and not due to flourishes making a player suddenly become skilled.

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Lockdown is unbalanced