@Rangerwill The way you wrote the post was pretentious and made you sound like a [rear]. And I very much doubt you had more than you claimed to have, but nice try.

-At my age I still live with my parents and can't get a job.

-I'm above 13 years old of course

-My parents won't use any money to buy CE

-Dad says,"It's just a computer game".

-Mom says,"When you get older for a job".

-I say,"Well it is just a game".

If I had a nickel everytime someone calls CE sellers "greedy"....

It's actually F2P players that are "greedy" (by your definition, it's actually simple economics and has nothing to do with greed). F2P players -- actually anyone who buys CE, but you get the point -- are the ones making CE more expensive. Every time someone buys CE, the price goes up. Every time someone sells CE, the price goes down.

This really should not be hard to understand. Quit calling CE sellers greedy (BTW, I'm a F2P player as well)

"Each category has their own needs. The F2P want the ce, and the P2P want the cr (well, pretty much. I can't speak for everyone.)"

All F2P players need CE since it is a pre-requisite to getting items above 2*, and therefore a pre-requisite for access to T3.

Not All P2P players need crowns, in principle they can still get them through the clockwork. The biggest crown sink (outside this week-end thing in the AH) is Punch, and while people want UVs, it is not a pre-requisite to experience the entire content the game has to offer. Granted, some high end items do get listed in the AH requiring crowns, but at least as much are listed in the forums, requiring CE.

So while it is technically correct that each side have their own need as a whole, I'd say that F2P need CE far more than P2P need crowns. As such, it is overall a sellers market. Yes prices do go up and down, and sometime there is more demand for crowns especially when OOO intervenes in various ways.

"Each side, not knowing exactly what it's like for the other side to have to deal with what they do, now engage in a rage war over it."

There is a difference between not knowing, and not caring. After all, at least some P2P players were at one point F2P. They probably know what it's like, it may even be part of the reason they went P2P. But no one would like to admit that they are putting their interest above others, it is not the most irrational behaviour. P2P care for themselves and their friends. They may give or sell CE cheaply to their friends. But as for the other thousands of faceless players bidding for it? Why would they choose to sell it for any lower than the highest they possibly could? I do not want to generalise across everyone, there may be saints out there, but I think that you can understand perfectly what it's like to be on the other side yet not be on the same side.

I reckon that the average P2P player do not really care that much. They aren't the ones starting threads asking for CE prices to be higher when there is a dip, so that they have more crowns to roll UVs. The average F2P.. probably care, but will get on with it (psychologically, it is a big difference from 6k to 6.6k). But every now and then, we have threads like those, which at best contains a naive plan doomed to fail, and at worst contains digs towards other players. Which results in others replying in kind. And they never get anywhere, since no one can uniformly agree on the fair price of CE. Not even F2P players amongst themselves.

"Stop selling CE altogether. If they want crowns, they have to get their hands dirty doing the clockworks, and OOO can watch SK turns into pay-to-play."

You can't be serious. You're implying that OOO would CARE if this game went P2P? It'd be SO much better for them. It'd only be the F2Pers that'd have a problem.

Ok. The only reason SK was made generally F2P was to increase it's player base. F2P are players, regardless whether they pay or not. What OOO is aware of though, is that any player who plays a game and likes it will do one or both of two things:

1. Pay money for a better playing experience
2. Recommend it to their friends

Having a bigger playerbase means that SK has more of a chance of gaining popularity, thus gaining P2P players that give it income. The F2P players are pretty much just a tool for this.

It doesn't matter if OOO would care if the F2P community would disappear. Quite frankly, I doubt they would, as there are still the P2P, it's just that progress would slow down a bit.

Pretty much, the whole concept of SK being F2P is just to lure players in, so that they tell their friends, more people come to play, and the more people come to play, the more P2P come as well.

But I don't care about all these inner business mechanics. It's a game, I play. You should all do the same, instead of bickering.

Really. If you're tired of the F2P players whining, then explain to them why things are how they are. And if they don't listen to you and insist that you're just being a snob, then just ignore them and get on with the game.

DON'T Just rage back at them and tell them that they're being greedy layabouts and should get a life and/or pay like normal people. The game was made F2P, let them play F2P. Besides, they won't take it lying down and will just rage back at you. They won't just go: 'Hm, maybe you're right, I'll just remove this stick up my hind end and P2P.' You can dream though.

And NEVER insist that P2P are superior to F2P. I don't care if they are. or if you think that P2P are more important. It's a game OOO made to be played, I suggest you just play it.

Sheesh. All I'm ever hearing in these energy threads are shots from the F2P complaining that the P2P are being selfish and greedy, and P2P complaining that F2P are all whiners and should go QQ in another room and that the game would be so much better without them.

JUST SHUT UP AND PLAY THE GAME! I've already outlined like THREE TIMES in this thread that BOTH F2P and P2P are going at each others neck for POINTLESS REASONS. Put DOWN the Katanas already!

Raging at each other over things like this is pointless. You throw the first stone, a stone will just be thrown back. And endless cycle of raging. No-one side will give in to the other, despite your desperate attempts to do so!

Now I have a headache...Just play the game...really, I'm so tired of having to explain the same things over and over while you people go 'Hmph. Well I still think...etcetcetc'

Nobody is listening to me, are they?

Typical.

"Normally the case would be that those who are foolish enough to buy CE at such prices would run out of crowns soon and the market will return to normal. But this time we have the effects of the glitch... the price has been kept up artificially for many days now."

That means enough people consider it a fair price to pay, and as such the price is fair. I've bought CE at the current price. I would have no problems paying 10,000 crowns for CE when I want it. The people who are buying & selling it are the ones keeping the game alive, everyone else is getting a free ride.

"I'm against artificially forcing CE price up, which is what's happening right now. Those walls of 100+ buy orders that appear in an instant. Those +200cr buy orders. Behaviors that disrupt the normal cycle."

Those are probably legitimate players with legitimate offers who want to transfer their funds fast, but not so fast they're desperate enough to pay the "click me" button rate. That's not how you control the market to profit off of a price change.

Patience. The market controls itself and will go both up and down in time. By the way, OOO is currently doing something. They're running auctions for some of the rarest of accessories (including that stinky aura with the cute flies!) in an attempt to get more people selling CE for crowns.

...

judging by all the flames and trolls in this topic, I think I'll just leave it alone...

...

...

Okay. Maybe not. I can't resist joining a nice little flame war. Guess that makes me a troll.

me, personally, I don't really mind the price of CE currently. I use CE for crafting 3+* items, which happens rarely. So I just keep doin JK runs to run up for crowns, and wait until I need to craft.
I think the problem here is that many people use CE to go on runs. The crown output on most levels doesn't equal the price of 10 CE, so people rage.
Solution's simple. DOn't use CE on runs.
Of course, that means that every day, you'll make less crowns than if u use CE. But in the long run, you get the best out of it.

I've seen those threads appear several times since the day I started playing (not as long as many, but I guess it has been a few months now). I even predicted not that a complaint threads was overdue about 3 weeks ago. Now some people are probably just obnoxious, especially online, but if you are getting exasperated from repeating the same thing in one thread, imagine how it must be like for those who see those threads for the 5th time.. or more.

As one's patience wears off, so does common courtesy. I am not saying it's right, and I am not saying that everyone will lose it, or be courteous in the first place. But if you represent the average poster, then I think you can probably understand how the other average poster might feel.

Bid how much you are willing to bid, and if you think it is no longer worth it, then vote with your time, and find another game to play. P2P players need to vote with their wallet if they -really- object to something in the game (and stop paying - even if it means stop playing). F2P players need to vote with their time.

I'm the average F2P player, just wondering why the CE prices, which used to be ~4-5k when I started playing, rose so much in the last few months without reason.

So what caused it?

Is anyone sure and can give me an answer?

Was it glitchers?

Was it price manipulation?

Was it a random influx of F2P players?

hmmmm?

Most likely a *combination* of factors, but if we were to be objective about it, we can only make educated *guesses* on the causes. My views are:

- If it was solely the glitchers fault, then prices wouldn't risen up to even 6k from the 4-5k you saw when you started.

- Price manipulation alone can not rise prices. The only way prices rise is via people *other* than the manipulator(s) paying the rate above any walls. If it was just one or two buying that the higher price, then the next seller who needs large amount of crown would be able to clear it. But the fact is, there is enough demand for CE *even* at those higher prices. As long as people are buying CE more than others are selling, prices will climb.

If you consider the amount of energy required for *one* F2P player to craft one 5* set, we are really quite expensive. Even if everything is crafted on 100 ME, that's 1100 crafting energy per 5* equipment. So for a helm, armour, shield and two weapons, it would cost 5500 CE *minimum*. That mean that to reach that stage, someone else would need to pay $16.50 give or take (I am basing this on the 20,000CE pack, it would be more if people on average buy cheaper packs). Thankfully for us, there *are* people spending hundreds of dollars on this game. But you can bet that is not the norm. And I reckon (though this is merely a guess) that the number of F2P outnumbers P2P by over 2:1. Meaning that we are *all* fighting against each other for those resources. That incidentally includes the people who sold the CE in the first place (who may want the CE back after s/he has lost a bidding war in the AH).

@Psychodestroyer: This thread will sink when A. It is locked or B. Other posters have nothing left to say in it. Not because *you* have nothing left to say in it. The good news is, sufficient number of threads are displayed on one page that you can just ignore this one and click on others until this thread naturally sinks.

There just needs to be a small way to get CE into the game other than P2P players buying it.
Perhaps reaching the core gives you 5~10 CE per entrance, and you can only get it once a day.

[Evilnut: Free players are essentially working for paying players: They invest time and get crowns for paying players that want lots of crowns and don't want to farm. But right now, this is a job that leaves you with no money left. You spend it all doing the job.]
Well the P2P player PAID so you F2P could enjoy the game. Without them OOO will close the game because they'll go bankrupt and there'll be nothing for you to protest about.
Well, DO strike if you like. You dont get what you dont deserve.