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Which Flourish Will Flourish?

24 replies [Last post]
Sat, 11/12/2011 - 21:29
Foxmuld's picture
Foxmuld

As a natural gunslinger, my Umbra Driver and Argent Peacemaker serve me well, providing great overall coverage. My faithful Shivermist Buster is also a great companion, handling my many crowd-control needs. The problem is, however, whenever wolvers, and to a lesser degree fiends, come my way, their dodgy tendencies are my bane. When I'm by myself its just a question of time, but when in a group most sword-users don't like playing Whack-a-Wolver constantly.

So, for my fourth weapon, I've decided I should get a blade. And, since piercing seems to be my big need, I decided to go with a flourish, I just don't know which to use. So I thought I'd ask the group what they thought. I know that flourishes have gotten a boost in popularity recently due to their usefulness in Lockdown, so I'm hoping a lot of you will have recent experience. As previously stated, this sword will probably only see the light of day when facing wolver-heavy areas and *possibly* PvP.

So, which should I use? Is the extra damage of the FF and BTB worth the lack of status-infliction? And if not, would stun or fire be more useful? Thanks for the help in advance.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 22:27
#1
Flists's picture
Flists
Most people would say that

Most people would say that the status does not proc often enough for the Rigadoon or the Flamberge to be useful. The real point of debate is which charge attack you want, the FF combo or the BTB shotgun spray?

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 07:42
#2
Batabii's picture
Batabii
What the heck is a "proc"?

Proc may refer to:
proc filesystem, a special file system (typically mounted to /proc) in Unix-like operating systems for accessing process information
ALGOL 68#proc: Procedures
Proč, a village in eastern Slovakia
The People's Republic of China, often abbreviated PROC or PRC
Proč?, a 1987 Czech film

???

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 08:13
#3
Silphius's picture
Silphius
You should try this

You should try this dictionary for things on the internet instead.

It stands for Programmed random occurance, how often the code allows a random effect or ability to happen/work. Flists is saying that the special flourishes' effects don't apply enough and are therefore less useful.

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 08:55
#4
Bluedigit's picture
Bluedigit
To add on to Flists' post,

To add on to Flists' post, the two charges would have varying degrees of usefulness against Wolvers and PvP.
The Final's charge attack is a powerful lunging three-hit combo... making it bad for areas with lots of hazards. However, it can deliver a devastating amount of damage if enough enemies are stuck in one area.
The BTB's charge attack is a spray of several spikes. Each spike doesn't do much damage on its own, but if you can manage to get close enough to an enemy (which is NORMALLY a bad idea for a gunner.) you can make all of them hit and do pretty nice damage as well. (I don't think spikes penetrate...)
For Lockdown
FF's charge attack is very nice for taking down people without piercing defense very quickly. You can pratically zoom in from somewhere where they weren't watching and kill them.
BTB's charge attack is not quite so useful in Lockdown - the spray's ranged attack's range and damage is far outclassed by your Argent Peacemaker's damage and you probably won't get close enough to get all the spikes to hit.

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 11:22
#5
Batabii's picture
Batabii
Urban dictionary is not as

Urban dictionary is not as accurate as most dictionaries. And I've never heard anyone say "proc" before, in any other game, ever.

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 17:29
#6
Icee's picture
Icee
A matter of taste

I have a Furious Flamberge and a Dark Thorn Blade.

Honestly, both are fine. The damage difference (when both were at the 4* level, since I haven't upgraded the DTB yet) isn't game-changing, and neither is the status effect because it happens so rarely. Against devilites, it's true that the odds of getting fire from the flamberge is low enough as to be unimportant, but Alpha Wolvers have more health and higher defenses, so against them the flame becomes more useful because you're going to have to land more hits anyway. Having used both lines extensively, I honestly believe that the regular attacks even out, so it's just a matter of whether or not you want a rare bonus bit of fire damage.

I like the dark thorn blade charge attack better, but I also use charge attacks from swords very rarely, so my experience is limited.

Finally, consider going with the spinecone bomb line instead of or in addition to your piercing sword. It's very PUG-friendly and absolutely chews up devilites and wolvers.

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 15:54
#7
Espeonage's picture
Espeonage
@Batabii

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Simply, you've just never happened to play with anyone who would have said such at the time. It's a pretty staple community term in most MMO[/RPGs] that feature such.

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 17:17
#8
Frostythepyro's picture
Frostythepyro
realy batabii, becasue proc

realy batabii, becasue proc is very common and I have used it, and seen it used, it many, many games that involve a random chance. Of course I am a numbers type guy, so I frequently look into the numbers behind chances in games, were the termwould most likely show up.

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 17:31
#9
Flists's picture
Flists
I'm sorry if you don't like

I'm sorry if you don't like my word choice Batabii =3

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 17:47
#10
Foxmuld's picture
Foxmuld
What a concept!

You know, I honestly hadn't even thought about a piercing bomb! A DBB would definitely suit my purposes better for PvE, which is my main concern. Does a setup of Umbra/AP/Shiver/DBB sound like a good plan? Especially if the statuses on flourishes are so rare...

Also I'm happy someone asked what "proc" was as i was equally lost. Not a big MMO guy usually, so most of the slang is Greek to me.

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 19:21
#11
Bluedigit's picture
Bluedigit
DBB is also a good piercing

DBB is also a good piercing bomb. There's no status inflictions so it doesn't have damage taken away from its base. Effectively it's a Piercing version of the blast bomb.

Although I still think if you had only one slot left, try to get a sword. There will probably come a time when you are cornered by twenty Mechs and you just can't charge up a bomb fast enough.

Sun, 11/13/2011 - 22:28
#12
Iceeboy's picture
Iceeboy
Instead of choosing a

Instead of choosing a flourish, why not put that aside and settle for a Leviathan Blade? It's an ALL purpose weapon.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 06:39
#13
Bopp's picture
Bopp
goodness no

"Instead of choosing a flourish, why not put that aside and settle for a Leviathan Blade? It's an ALL purpose weapon."

I strongly advise you to get a Final Flourish or Barbarous Thorn Blade, over a Leviathan Blade. A set of two or more specialized weapons is superior to a set of general-purpose weapons.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 08:11
#14
Blue-Flood's picture
Blue-Flood
All the rapiers are pretty

All the rapiers are pretty broken in LD. If you're going to use one, you might as well go full game exploit and get max speed/dmg as well. A weak rapier is like a wet noodle. Stick with the guns!

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 14:42
#15
Culture's picture
Culture
Hmm

You are gunslinger? How about a Callahan? It takes down Fiends and Beasts very quickly. The knockdown allows you to stun lock them. Knockdown is also great for the nearby swordmaster to get an easy hit in while the enemy is on its back. It can cause dodging, so be very aware of where you are shooting at in a party setting. Personally, I welcome a Callahan gunner in Fiend and Wolver strata, a good gunner is a wonderful asset to the team. It is much better than an AP for those enemies.

As a gunslinger you probably already have ASI and Damage bonuses in your Armors and Trinkets, so a Callahan would play well to your existing strengths.

As weird as it sounds, Levi is a viable choice here. A typical loadout for a bomber, for example, is a Levi + 3 bombs. The Levi is just there as a backup sidearm when your weapon type of choice won't do. And the Levi combos perfectly with your Shivermist. Drop a Shiver then charge up a Levi for 1000+ damage in T3. (A favorite of mine for FSC.)

That said, Flourish obliterates Wolvers and Fiends. So if you really only want a sword specifically for them, then that'll work.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 18:07
#16
Gfjmember's picture
Gfjmember
@Culture

The major problem with the Magnus guns is that you can't move and shoot at the same time. The only pure piercing gun that allows you to both move and shoot is the Antigua. And personally, I've found mobility very important to being a gunner.

I'm not sure which sword to go for, as the others have said, the effects of the two other flourish lines don't activate that often, but I'm wondering how the increased damage from the final flourish and barbarous thorn blade translate into hits to kill. Stun could be useful, but I'm just speculating without any evidence.

Based on charge attack alone, I think I would rather have the Barbarous Thorn blade over the Final Flourish.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 18:31
#17
Slayzz's picture
Slayzz
BTB

Well, there were 3 occasions in LD where the BTB charge came in handy. First, I was a noob, and decided to charge my BTB. Then, there comes along your average tier 3 player: Vog Cub, and DA. He was charging his weapon as well. We went face to face quickly, (he had his back against the focefield of his team), and we released the charges. Since DA charge was so slow, I was able o kill him with BTB charge, which happened because he had no piercing defense. (Shows speed of BTB charge).
Second was when I was facing a fellow ash tail person. He was low on health, so he retreated JUST behind his forcefield (still lockdown) Then, he sat down, thinking he couldnt be hit. At this moment, I charged the BtB, and released it, hoping what the wiki said about it hitting through fircfileds was correct. It was. Ash tail guy = dead.
Lastly, my favorite occurrence was when a Vog cub player popped around a corner AS SOON as I released a BTB charge. Itsent him flying into a shock pad. Then I got GF'ed a few moments later.

Back on topic. If you want a precise weapon to kill those annoying wolvers, debilities, trojans, and PvP victims (With a precise charge), then FR is for you. If you want a crowd control piercing weapon that clear any type of mob with it's charge (yes any mob: I tried the charge on mecha knights as well as slag walkers. Knockback was the same), than get BTB.

PS: If some grammar and/or spelling is a bit off, blame iPhone keyboard + crap Internet connection.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 08:45
#18
Chris's picture
Chris
Barb thorn blade is the best

Barb thorn blade is the best piercing weapon for pve
Final Flourish is 100% the same at BTB minus the charge.

Go with Btb, unless you intend to get a good uv for pvp, then go with a final flourish

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 23:09
#19
Foxmuld's picture
Foxmuld
BTB Knockback

This sounds really stupid, but the Levi is just so cliche... I know its cliche for a reason, but its still so cliche... Also, since I do prefer to use my guns and bomb in combat in most situations, might as well have the sword perfectly matched to what I'll most likely use it on.

Wait, so the ranged charge of the BTB has Knockback? Did I hear that right? If so that sounds quite nice. I do have one extra question, though: Do wolvers dodge the BTB charge projectiles like gunfire? If this is the case then I would just have more of the same problem...

Wed, 11/16/2011 - 01:13
#20
Nicoya-Kitty's picture
Nicoya-Kitty
@Foxmuld The charge attack on

@Foxmuld The charge attack on the BTB will very reliably connect with wolvers and devilites, and will usually knock them down as well (if it doesn't outright one-shot them). You shouldn't need to worry about them dodging.

Wed, 11/16/2011 - 12:48
#21
Icee's picture
Icee
Polaris or Alchemer, not AP outside of FSC

I notice you have the Argent Peacemaker as part of your general set. Don't. It's a terrible gun outside of FSC because it does tiny damage against everything except undead and fiend and fiends are difficult to hit (devilites dodge and greavers move very fast). I'd carry a Polaris or elemental alchemer instead of the AP. Those are great at killing turrets, retrodes, zombies, and anything else you'd ever want to shoot. No gunslinger should be without one (or more, so you can pick and choose for different levels).

Wed, 11/16/2011 - 19:23
#22
Draciusen's picture
Draciusen
@Foxmuld

The charge attack on the Snarble line has an excellent knockback, enough to endlessly postpone a wave of Constructs long enough to revive teammates.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 13:10
#23
Foxmuld's picture
Foxmuld
BTB->Polaris

Icee :Yeah I know AP isn't the "best" gun to have but my guild has been doing quite a few FSC runs so I thought I'd make it first (it also complements the Umbra Driver well). I'm planning on making a Polaris as my fifth weapon, but wolvers seemed to be a higher priority issue.

Back on topic, if the BTB charge is unavoidable, ranged, and has knockback, I think I'll go with that. Thanks for all the help guys!

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 13:11
#24
Foxmuld's picture
Foxmuld
BTB->Polaris

Icee :Yeah I know AP isn't the "best" gun to have but my guild has been doing quite a few FSC runs so I thought I'd make it first (it also complements the Umbra Driver well). I'm planning on making a Polaris as my fifth weapon, but wolvers seemed to be a higher priority issue.

Back on topic, if the BTB charge is unavoidable, ranged, and has knockback, I think I'll go with that. Thanks for all the help guys!

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