Spiral Knights - Monster type characteristics

Monster type characteristics

7 replies [Last post]

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 03:04

Gospel

so, i was hanging on AH1 and clicked on the help, and the monster tab...

Obviously i saw the different monster families and characteristics shown as:

Type=====Deal=Weak=Strong
Slime---------P------S-------P
Beast---------P-------P------E
Gremlin-------E------S------E
Construct-----E------E------P
Fiend---------S------P-------S
Undead-------S------E------S

obviously P=Piercing, S=Shadow, E=Elemental...

I then realized these are not the only combinations. In total there should be 27 unique characteristics
PS, PP, PE, ES, EE, EP, SE, SP, SS; so nine times three varieties (P-S-E) each of the third characteristic...

In your opinion guys,
1. are you already ok with the current six characteristics (and monster families)?
2. or there should be 21 more monster families
3. or at least all the 27 characteristics be spread out among all families AND series
ex. Lumber would now have a E-E-P, while the Retrode are E-E-S, etc. on same construct family
ex. Devilite would be S-P-P, Greaver S-P-E, Trojan S-E-P..

just like that...
opinion?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 05:10

Schwarze

Too much complication. If

Too much complication. If they'd change monster attributes, mixing up the different types of a 'race' is unecessary and would make combat clunky and disrupt the flow. What I do see is the potential for more 'races' in the future, though. However I think the current six are a comfortable amount.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 07:19

Bopp

right idea, but 18, not 27

Ignore the "Deal" column for a moment. Just look at the Weak/Neutral/Strong part of the problem (for example, on the Damage wiki page). There are 6 possible combinations for Weak/Neutral/Strong: SEP (slimes), SPE (gremlins), PSE (beasts), PES (fiends), EPS (undead), ESP (constructs). So the current 6 monster families are perfectly symmetric, in their Weak/Neutral/Strong characteristics; each possible permutation is used once and only once.

Now let's throw in the Deal aspect. This is independent of the Weak/Neutral/Strong aspects, so for each of those 6 permutations, we can now have 3 variants that deal different damage. For example, in addition to our current "piercing slimes" (SEP dealing P) we could have "elemental slimes" (SEP dealing E) and "shadow slimes" (SEP dealing S). This produces a total of 6 * 3 = 18 possible monster types.

Your 3 * 3 * 3 math went wrong because you assumed that Weak and Strong were independent. For example, you considered monsters that are weak to piercing but also strong to piercing. We should exclude those. But your idea is right, that there is a lot of room for Three Rings to make slightly different monsters.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 07:42

Juances

The deal damage is wrong

The deal damage is wrong anyways, gremlins do mostly normal, plenty of slimes do normal too(rock cube, burned ice cube, blast, lichens), quicksilvers may charge with elemental, retrodes and scuttlebots have normal attacks, etc.

You have to throw those damages to the mix.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 08:22

Trying

And how the heck do you have

And how the heck do you have S-P-P?
That would just mean it's neutral to everything.......

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 21:18

Gospel

im a little confused though...

the third characteristic, Strong...

does that mean any type of damage that monster family deals, it will deal extra damage to its target with that type of defense?
ex.
Normal T2 jelly cubes (PSP) will deal extra damage to those with piercing type defense?
then that would mean us wielding Wolver series armors/helms would actually take extra (but reduced with respect to our defense types) damage from Slimes regardless if they deal us normal or piercing type damage???

or am i just overthinking?....

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 21:25

Gospel

oh god nevermind

i just realized im wrong at that last post...

Strong means strong AGAINST that type defensively.... meaning resistance... dang...
(sorry for double post)

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 21:30

Kalaina-Elderfall

Strong refers to the fact

Strong refers to the fact that if you attack that monster type with the type of attack in question it will deal less damage. e.g. Slimes take reduced damage from piercing attacks (the "try to nail jelly to a wall" effect).

Interesting to note is the fact that for the classes of monsters that deal Pierce damage, one class is also weak to Pierce itself (beast) and the other is strong to Pierce (slime). The same is true for Elemental, with Constructs being weak to Elemental and Gremlins being strong to Elemental. Shadow, on the other hand, is different; both classes of monsters which deal Shadow damage (Firends and Undead) also resist Shadow damage.

As mentioned before, several monsters deal damage in addition to or outside of their monster class's standard damage type. And in Tier 3, Normal becomes a damage type in and of itself no more or less important than any other, so you could argue that there already combinations beyond the listed six.

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Monster type characteristics