this forum is 99% entitled 15 year olds, if you haven't noticed.

there are a lot of reasons not to

I am with you about Auction House and unbinding, but the difference between Auction House and Shadow Keys is that nobody wanted them, and still people don't want them. They are unnecesary, they divide player base, they put levels that should be for everyone behind a pay wall. Shadow Key ranting is absolutely rational and a bad design choice that is getting patched instead of removed so people don't feel betrayed if they were taken out of the game.

I won't use Color Change, but I am not going to rant about a service that is given to us with CROWNS at all.

"...is that nobody wanted them, and still people don't want them. They are unnecesary (sic)..."

....then why do you care? If you don't want them, it shouldn't bother you that somebody else does.

ITT: entitled 15 year olds complain about things that they don't want but deserve anyway.

I did read your entire post and very little is clear.

"Shadow Key ranting is absolutely rational and a bad design choice that is getting patched instead of removed so people don't feel betrayed if they were taken out of the game."

This implies that shadow key ranting is a bad design choice, which hardly makes sense.

The fact of the matter is, if you find something to be unnecessary, it shouldn't bother you that it exists.

Thanks, I just copied your sentence and changed some things to adapt it to my purpose. Hope it serves you to spend more time studying than playing all day long a game. Don't waste your live, youngster! By the way, that "did" of yours in the last sentence, tsk.

And I won't answer anymore to attacks like that from you, we should instead discuss why you (yes, your personal reason, youngster) think Shadow Keys are so needed for you in the game. You are quick disregarding my opinion, but you don't give any real reason for it. I said before, in case you didn't get it yet:

- Shadow Keys are a bad design choice, even p2p players have said that.
- One reason of mine is that they are a pay wall that separates p2p players from f2p, when until now it has been a system where everyone could get everything with the help of the p2p playerbase. Mind you, we have to be grateful to p2p people for inserting CE into the game, I agree with that.
- They aren't taking them out because people have paid for them. If it happens, it will be much later.

I want to run the levels. Jesus.

...

@OP

While the suggesting of new content hasn't always been handled very well, that's the nature of an MMO.
The developers continue to add on, so when one thing gets done, it's a question of "well, what do we do next?"
And if you're trying to appease the player-base, who better to ask than the players?

Unfortunately, I wasn't here for the implementation of the AH, so I can't discuss that.
However, starting with the Shadow Keys: the rewards for using Shadow Keys were released before the actual information on how to obtain the keys was given, so I would assume that the player-base believed it was something that they could readily obtain.
However, the keys were put into an expensive gambling system. Yes, the keys are expensive in terms of cr ==> CE conversion, there's no doubt about that, but the majority of complaints were the way they were acquired, not so much the price (which IMO still seems overpriced even for end-game).

As for the accessories, they were shown before we were told how to obtain them (bringing up hype), and considering this was implemented as semi-expensive gambling (which bugged everyone, myself including), I'm fairly sure most of the outcry was due to the availability of accessories moreso than the cost.

And as far as unbinding items? The Unbinding cost of an item exceeds the amount of CE it would cost to craft an entirely new piece of equipment, with the pressure of crafting becoming increasingly higher as unbinding costs continue to rise. Essentially, players wanted to unbind weapons, and were given the message to just make another one. I don't suppose anyone actually finds it liable to unbind equipment, save for a few FoV merchants and such?

The price drops for Thanksgiving are appreciated, but I believe the outcry comes from people without a disposable income (as Hanktron put, entitled 15 year olds, which arguably make up most of the player-base), so while the price drop for some people makes the price cheaper, for most it just makes the mountain to climb just a little bit shorter, if that metaphor makes any sense.

TL;DR

Yeah, there's complaining, and while not all of that is viable, most of it has reasoning behind it. What is asked for is given, but with ticks and tacks added on that are a deal-breaker for some, and while outcry may be loud, I have a hard time thinking that the majority of players aren't thankful, but instead just aren't pouring out their thanks as well as complainers do their hate.

-----

@everyone coupling maturity/ immaturity with age
Please, stop this, you don't gain maturity with age (ever heard of a man-child for instance?), and being 15 and coupled with some of the people on here is incredibly irritating. Mentioning that I'm 15 might lead to me being ignored, but I figure it's worth mentioning.

Sorry for the text wall by the way, guess I can't help myself.

"entitled little 15 year old"

Can you please stop saying that? I'M 15, and I've never felt entitled to ANYTHING. Even the last slice of cake when I haven't had a piece :/

What he/she means by the 'bad design' line is that for Shadow keys, you need a hell lot of ce to get one. The initial plan was to let them be rare LB items, but people used THOUSANDS of CE to open HUNDRENDS of LBs and still never got one.

The cost of them is still high, so therefore, out of reach for F2P.

Yeah, we know that, it's just that some of us take it better than others do. I can be bothered to wait. There are others with a shorter fuse than me, no offence dudes who do, so obviously they say the price is too high.

It's there, its possible to get, just that it's one of those things that is made so it ends up as 'Here it is! You can have it, if you can reach it.'

That's what ticks people off. (Not me, like I said, I can wait)

TL:DR: Just stop with the entitled 15 year old thing please. I'm getting a little more then irked at generalised comments. Don't take it personally, it stems from previous IRL experience.

EDIT: @Marqui YEAH! Another 15 year old who uses sense! So I'm NOT alone! T.T

But to be honest, I can be immature when I want to be XD

But dude, you're talking about PHYSICAL maturity. I'm talking about MENTAL maturity. There is a difference, believe it or not.

And how can you say that if we take offence to the whole 15 year old thing show's that we're not ready to be mature? Dude, you said the 99% of the forum base are entitled 15 year olds. Disregarding the everyone that think's they're the 1%, you just called everyone entitled 15 year olds. I'm pretty sure that counts as an insult, i.e. people are entitled to take offence.

You can't tell is a good design choice yet. Do you think it is a good design choice to charge you 1k+ of CE just for running a dungeon once? Even if you split it up between four friends, the cost of just running once the dungeons is horrendously high. I am not telling that I have to wait to run them yet, but charging an entry fee is not good, even if you are a p2p player.

Your other point... the "well you aren't going to have everything free forever, haha" point. I signed up for a "free to play" MMO. The definition of "free to play" implies that I will be able to access content for free and yes, I know it won't be all content as I have played many, many free MMOs before this one. And I can tell you one thing: when an MMO starts charging for basic content such as "levels" it becomes just a p2p populated game, and that isn't good for OOO, trust me. They would get money, yeah, but their image as a company would be damaged forever. (Insert Castlevania: Symphony of the Night line from final battle end)

Shadow Keys have damaged the game, and OOO noticed that. Why? Because that is why now Shadow Keys are for sale and not just a "rare item from a random box that you get as a random wheel prize that you have to pay to open it". It was complicated before, wasn't it? And I tell you one more thing: expect in the LONG future (yeah, it certainly won't happen now) to get Shadow Keys requirements even softer or just free altogether. OOO has done a great game and done great balancing until just now and I trust them. In fact, even if the recent elevator pass month pisses me off, I accept it because OOO still has to do a great deal of experimenting with the game. Shadow Keys are the ONLY thing I disagree with, I like Shadow Lairs and its idea... as you can probably tell because of the lore topic I made.

Edit: Whoa there, I got carried away and more people posted! I won't change the post anyways, and yeah, I don't tend to use that kind of vocabulary (the 15 year old thing). Sorry about that.

I think the whole "Free-to-play" argument isn't really viable.
I mean, yes, it means that you are able to play (some) content for free, but when you look at it from the developers point of view, you realize that it isn't really about the player as much as it is the money (not to say players are ignored, but they aren't the reason for business).

For example: An MMO called "DCUnivers Online" went F2P a little while back and earned a 700% increase in their income because of it.
So, really, F2P isn't meant to be F2P, it's like a demo to bring in paying players, which invalidates the F2P argument right?

--edit--
@Aumir
After reading that a little bit, yeah, I agree with charging for basic activities.
Charging for a "demo" isn't exactly a cool thing to do.

I'm a F2P player. Today I raised my funds level from 21k to 92k, by selling a Sealed Sword and Blackened Crest for profits of 250 and 500 CE, respectively. I'm not saying everyone has access to these kinds of stuff- it took me a month to get that crest alone- but it's possible for F2P players to save up. Furthermore, one does not have to buy their keys from Boost: one can get the key from a player who is selling, or just wait and pay a quarter of that price as an entrance fee into a Shadow Lair.

A piece of advice to F2P who want fast cr/ce: spam RT/JK/FSC runs. There actually ARE people out there who will buy the token weapons, and you can get about 3-6k CR per run (depending on the run itself). Also you can go into Haven 1 and sell your spare materials and such (I spent maybe 50% of my Tier 2 days in Haven 1 yelling "Selling MATs!") and also buy/sell CE. Buying low and selling high is very good business in quantities under 100 CE.

So it's not impossible to get the required 1350/1500/1800 CE. It just takes patience... something that apparently is short in coming these days.

P.S. I'm a 15 year old too. Stereotype much?

The only thing I'm entitled to is the right to play without having to listen to everyone complaining while I'm trying to sell mats. Jkay as well, but yes, this new content was supposed to be directed at the (supposedly rich) endgamers, or those with connections. It's not meant for little 3* and 4*s to say "Cool, content! Let's go! Oh no, expensive! Let's whine!"

I agree, sucking it up and saving is the best. I worked hard (like a devilite XD) for my gear, and I'm glad to say it was worth every crown I spent on it. I've had my lucky breaks, and I've had my bad days, but what it comes down to is just patience, and not 'entitlement' or 'this is mine' or anything like that. But while I'm at it... "Selling MATs!" XD

I must say, the Shadow Lairs are a bit overpriced, but you see more complaining that they're hard. They're supposed to be. THAT'S what makes it irritating.

I see what you mean. Yeah, I expect them to be hard and possibly borderline unfair. They are end game content after all.

@ chris

This