Spiral Knights - My elevator pass is not the cause of the increase in cost of the CE

My elevator pass is not the cause of the increase in cost of the CE

31 replies [Last post]

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 12:05

Ciopo

Sup.

Before the elevator passes, I would play 8-10 hours a day on crystal energy, sometimes soloing (60 % of the time), sometime pugging (20% of the time), sometime multiboxing ( 20% of the time), if there were some nice crown farm ( example: amber titan 2 weeks ago, that had arena at depth 6 and 7) then multibox heavily on that, thus spending 4 times the CE someone would spend on it's own.

Now I have an elevator pass, yet my playing habits did NOT change, net result? I am consuming *less* CE therefore the demand I use to provide is less than it's used to be, or in other words my actions is a tendency to lower the cost, hell, I'm even *selling* Ce from time to time as opposed to using the instant buy of the CE market whenever I was running dry.

So, please, stop the shenanigan that the prices are up because of the elevator pass.

I hate to break your bubbles, but here's the deal: the crown supply didn't increase, because those that wants/would play all day will/were playing all day even before the elevator pass was introduced, and those that won't still don't.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 12:23

Carthiah

Sigh.

You're clearly throwing arguments around without considering all angles of the supply-demand dynamic.

For instance:
Players who were repeatedly purchasing CE for money to continue playing past their mist are no longer doing so, draining the market of CE and thus driving prices up.
The increase in crowns due to players playing for longer, who, until the passes came to be, had only ever used their mist energy to play. Mist players are playing for longer and accumulating more crowns, driving the value of crowns down (or the value of CE up, depending on how you look at it).
Etc, etc.

Before throwing a black-and-white scenario onto the forums you ought to consider all angles of the argument, as well as real-life evidence. The fact is that the value of CE rose by about 25% over a couple days after the elevator passes were introduced, and it has stayed that way. You can pretend that the two events are unrelated all you want, but that doesn't change the facts.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 12:31

Gist

People are greedy, thus the

People are greedy, thus the price of CE goes up.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 12:32

Mightyputty

@ Thread title

Of course it isn't your elevator pass that caused the raise. It was a MULTITUDE of them. Of course there would be crown raises so more people would jack up prices.

@Carthiah Thank you.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 12:32

Drkxpenpen

People like commodities.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 12:37

Jim-Dale

8-10 hours. That's nice.

8-10 hours.

That's nice.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 13:33

Ciopo

The increase in crowns due to

The increase in crowns due to players playing for longer, who, until the passes came to be, had only ever used their mist energy to play. Mist players are playing for longer and accumulating more crowns, driving the value of crowns down
Well, if they were running on mist only before and not buying CE with money, what makes you think that they bought an elevator pass now? My opinion is that those who are F2P still are largely F2P

Players who were repeatedly purchasing CE for money to continue playing past their mist are no longer doing so, draining the market of CE and thus driving prices up.
Factually wrong, if they bought CE with money for the purpose of using it for the elevators, they were not CE sellers, since they do not need extra crowns ( from selling CE) for running elevators.

The fact is that the value of CE rose by about 25% over a couple days after the elevator passes were introduced, and it has stayed that way. You can pretend that the two events are unrelated all you want, but that doesn't change the facts.
Couple of days is too short a time, hell price raised up of 600-800 within HOURS of it's introduction, now *if* the correlation was that the cause is the allegedly extra crowns generate by running gates free of elevator cost, then why didn't the trend keeping going up at the rate of 300-400 EACH HOUR ? Surely, if there is the strong connection you imply, and just a couple of hours of elevator passes where enough to increase the crown supply to such a degree that the ce price jumped up by 600-800, by now that it's almost 10 days that elevators are out, those claims of "infinite cr" should have drove the prices way higher than what they are now.

I also have a point on this, if the crown supply was really increased, it wouldn't be just the CE prices that would have gone up, but also the AH prices , yet I see the stuff is largely at the same prices of before, some even dropped.

Ah, however you are but one person. How many hundreds or thousands of other Spiral Knighters are there who can and will use their increased crown income to hoard CE while it's easy for them to? How many of them will look once at the price of CE per hundred, maybe complain, shrug, and then buy it anyway because they now have the resources to? After all.. Much of this valuable CE is required in many processes related to sharp and shiny things like equipment. A single person's views and actions will hardly change anything, I would hate to say. But, I bid you wishes of luck, whatever your plans are. Happy gaming!
I'd say that for those like me the limiting and most important resource is time, not crowns or CE.
But putting aside my scenario, who exactly now have "the resources" that they didn't had before? if they can play "all day long now", why didn't they do so before?, if they are consuming all that much CE for crafting, I'm assuming you are talking about either ragecrafting for UV hunting, or 4*/5* stuff, if that's the case, certainly they are the kind of player that could do run that would net in crowns more than what they consume in CE to do such run.
If not, and they are t1/barely t2 players, then what dent could the 50/100/200 CE they need to craft one thing put on the prices?

Increase on crown supply you say, because they run gates.
What are the good crown sources? let's say fsc/jk runs, or arena farming
if those places net more crowns that they cost to run, then those who wants to play all day *can*, and *were* doing so already
if they were not playing all day already, why is that?

8-10 hours. That's nice.
problem? oh wait, weren't you guys opposed/whining about the elevator pass claiming "infinite crowns will crash the market!"? are you really surprised that it takes *time* ?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 14:32

Drkxpenpen

I like food.

Why spend money now when they haven't before? You have to understand marketing ploys and the psychology of humans. The elevator pass, to many, may seem like a much better and more limitless offer than a set amount of CE for roughly the same amount of money (well, for now). Marketers know that some people are a little smarter than to get sucked into the world of extravagance and luxury, but they also know that if they can entice even a small number of people into the pay-to-play world, they make that much more money.

Who exactly now have "the resources" they didn't have before? Why didn't they play all day before, but can now? The elevator pass of course! Not everyone has as much free time as you do. Some people prefer to run only on mist - that was the limiting factor for them, or they chose it to be the limiting factor for them. Now they CAN go on all the runs they want, and as a result generate a greater income of crowns which they can now spend on CE, which was much harder for them to attain before due to the relatively low influx of crowns.

AH prices are always fluctuating throughout the day and throughout the week. Sure there might be times when an abundance of equipment is produced as byproducts of crafting (possibly due to the increased attainability of CE), and sure there might be times when there is a slightly less supply of said items as a byproduct of purchasing (possibly due to the increased availability of crowns) and prices increase. As for materials, more runs means more materials of course. More items on the market mean lowered prices as sellers try to outsell each other. As for recipes, well ... those fluctuate too depending on popularity as well as supply and demand.

Now for fun, and also because it seems that I have no life today, let's think of one possible scenario.
Let's take your 8 hours of playing and divide it by an average of hmmmm I'll just say 40 minutes per Jelly run.
8 * 60 minutes = 480 minutes/40 minutes = 12 Jelly runs a day
12 Jelly runs a day * Let's say an average of 7k crowns per run = 84,000 crowns.
84,000 crowns/7,300 crowns per 100 CE = 11.5 * 100 CE = 1,150 CE you can buy.
Now imagine a large number of players with this possibility, an opportunity that was possibly created by the elevator pass. Imagine the positive feelings people have about having so much. Imagine that some become hooked to this feeling of power and affluence, and are tempted to buy with cash again. And again. And again.

Marketing.

Now, this is all just my opinion of course. Like you, I have my own theories and thoughts. Right or wrong, who knows and who cares. There are too many factors that we are unable to access and analyze. I guess I was just looking to toss in my two cents and enjoy a gentle-mannered discussion today :)

As always, happy gaming!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 14:39

Huhbum

hmm.

Before the elevator pass, I was not running 8-10 hours a day on CE. Now, however, I do run the Clockworks 8-10 hours on average.

I am consuming about the same amount of CE to run elevators(about 0, and about 0) but since my ability to gather crowns has exponentially increased, and I am trying my best to upgrade gear, my demand for CE is much higher than it used to be.

Therefore, I am an example of a direct contradiction to your argument in the OP. And I do believe that my Elevator Pass is a factor for CE price inflation.

It all depends on how many players like me there are with Passes, versus how many players like you there are.

So, please do not generalize and say that there are no players like me who are taking advantage of an unusually good offer from OOO and ramping up playing hours to take as much advantage of it as possible.

I hate to break your bubble, but here's the deal: the crown supply did increase, because many of those that wanted/would play all day did not play all day before the elevator pass was introduced, and now some of them do.

Cheers.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 14:44

Carthiah

I reitterate, Sigh.

Once again I see that you have no notion of the supply-demand dynamic.

To address the first point you made about my post, I personally know several players who used only mist energy to play, believing that the discrepancy between the cost of CE and the profit gained from spending 100 energy to be small enough that it was not worth the effort. Now that these players have unlimited elevators, they can continue to profit from floors AS IF they were using mist, and accumulating/stockpiling CE with the (much easier obtained) crowns that they've made. Just because you use CE to run elevators, coming out with a profit of a couple thousand crowns per hundred energy, does not mean that other players share your playing habits. For f2p players, the easiest portion of pure profit on a daily basis stems directly from turning mist energy into crowns. Buying CE and running gates with it returns a comparatively diminutive profit when you consider that mist energy is free.

To address your second point, I frequently hear of players who choose to buy CE using real money to be able to play for as long as they would like in a day, but having so much CE for only gates is silly for the majority of players. These players sell off a portion of their CE in addition to using the excess to run gates. I don't know if you realize this or not, but most people do not have ten hours every day to sit down and play spiral knights. The players who, until elevator passes were introduced, used CE to run gates often would buy the CE without knowing when or how exactly they would use it. Rather than the regimen-specific content that elevator passes offer, being that they are on a time limit of one month, CE purchases remain at the same number of elevator costs no matter how long the player goes without playing.

I will also add that markets are not driven by spontaneous 'rise' and 'fall' forces, but rather they tend toward a natural settling point, which is often based on many things. I bring this up because you seem to think that the passes would cause the market to continue to rise by the same amount of crowns every day until all the passes run out. This is ridiculous. A new component was added to the CE market, which rose it's natural settling point by (roughly, I don't think we're quibbling over significant figures here) 25%. The market rose quickly at first, then tapered off and settled at the new price of, what, 7300-7400 crowns? This is to be expected, and is a recurring trend in almost any market model, real or in-game.

To address the other market concepts you alluded to, for instance the auction house, I would have to say that the market of high-price items has indeed changed, because those items do not cost crowns to make, they cost CE. Regardless of the state of the CE market, a 5* item still costs 1450CE to craft and 4000CE to unbind, meaning that the base price for such items will always be around 5500CE+. This, however, is a measure of CE and not crowns, and as such if you were to compute the market price of said items in crowns, you would find that the price of these items on average has risen a significant amount.

Once again, you cannot simply say something to make it true. You seem to completely ignore facts which don't support your argument. The CE market hovered, on average, just north of 6000 crowns for more than a month, following which it rose by nearly 25% in a couple of days, lining up directly with the only major change in gameplay near that time, the elevator passes. If you need more evidence, the energy sale on the 3500CE package corresponded to an average market drop of only a few hundred crowns the day after it was released this time around, whereas on earlier occasions the energy sale resulted in market drops of double or triple this amount. The only variable in the CE market which has changed at all is the introduction of the elevator pass. This is clear evidence supporting the argument that many more players are choosing elevator passes over purchasing CE, and that elevator passes are inflating, as well as preventing the deflation of, the CE market.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 15:13

#10

Aumir

So...

So... if you buy 3200CE with money by a dollar more than a elevator pass, you help reduce the CE market crown inflation, but you don't help it by purchasing an item with the same value as that CE quantity instead of having to purchase the CE?

You (market controllers) are full of greed. Plain and simple. And the market rose 1k in just a weekend as you made up your sorry excuse of the elevator "making free crowns" pass to rise the CE market. People like me were misinformed, and some have bitten the bait. Thus, current CE price still remains.
In fact, every time a person buys an elevator pass the CE buy value should decrease by like more than 20 crowns. But this is something OOO should have calculated before implementing it. And now I don't really know who to blame: greedy players or OOO... Both is easier though :/

Short version: Elevator pass = buying 1600-3200CE for elevator purposes = ~2000CE but it isn't by who-knows-what.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 15:28

#11

Ciopo

please use some form of

please use some form of quoting to separate what you're quoting form what you're typing :3

So...

The elevator pass of course! Not everyone has as much free time as you do. Some people prefer to run only on mist - that was the limiting factor for them, or they chose it to be the limiting factor for them. Now they CAN go on all the runs they want, and as a result generate a greater income of crowns which they can now spend on CE, which was much harder for them to attain before due to the relatively low influx of crowns.
I'm sorry but I disagree with that, to do "all the runs they want" they have to have 2 things: the time for it and wanting to do it. those who were limited in their gameplay for time reason will obviously not suddenly gain extra free time because they got an elevator pass, so I think it's fair to assume that those probably didn't buy an elevator pass.

Those that want to run all day but previously didn't, I ask, why didn't they? I can see and formulate cases of "want but can't", but as I see it it's like that:
They want to play "as much as they like", but they were limiting themselves to mist only, why?
If they want to play more, but don't, only reason I can see is that they can't afford it, or in other words their crown income per energy spent was not enough to run as much as they like.
Alternatively, I can see someone deciding to not spend his accumulated CE if they are "100 mist short" of crafting an upgrade to their gear, I used to do that months ago, so :3.
I can't see much straying from that, because if someone wanted to play more, either he could or he couldn't, if he could and choose not to, then he didn't want to, or didn't want to "all that much".
If you have other ideas in mind, please tell me, I like discussions :3

Prices rose within hours of the elevator pass introduction, yes, probably because people smelled the rise of CE prices and rushed to buy all the lower-priced CE while they could. Why hasn't it gone way higher than what they are now? Have more faith in the people to be diligent with their money :). They know when things get too high. After all, that's why there are so many threads out there regarding CE prices. I'm sorry but I don't buy that, if really there are hundred/thousands of people making (out-of-my-ass number) 50k cr a day more than they were before the elevator pass, do you think they would care that much about keeping the CE price at ~7,2k cr? I know I don't use the "buy now" but the trade myself, so I see that why the price stabilize instead of still ramping up ( or ramping up not as fast as it did in the first few hours/day), that it's more or less stable now, however, means that the demand for CE isn't increasing, because if it was increasing and there was a big overflow of crowns, prices would be higher and still growing., I can claim real world fact on that just as much as it's a fact that prices raised after the passes got implemented.

to put it on it's own: It's a fact that since the CE price more or less stabilized, the demand for CE isn't particularly increasing and the supply of crown isn't particularly increasing.

Another point on Prices rose within hours of the elevator pass introduction, yes, probably because people smelled the rise of CE prices and rushed to buy all the lower-priced CE while they could.
That's very true, and that's the speculation of players, fair enough that it is strongly correlated to the introduction of elevator passes, for that I apologize for not being clearer: my "problem" is with the claim that elevator passes=omg overflow of crowns=CE prices going up crazy. I'm strongly opinionated that elevator passes did not extremely increase the supply of crowns therefore extremely increase the crowns price of CE.

As for CE usage, I'm talking about crafting any star equipment, buying items with CE, opening energy gates, reviving with energy, etc. Anything that is related to CE. Heck, even the idea of amassing large amounts of CE to feel rich and powerful. I think I did not make my point clear in my rambling, I apologize, let me try to make it again :3
what I meant is, there are various levels of players, and the spending and crown income of them varies.
I think it to be true that there is a correlation between crown income and CE spent, the more crowns someone gain in his playtime the more CE he spend in various stuff.
On to my point: those who were not gaining many crowns before, now even if they play more (time) they are largely not gaining "that" much more crowns that they were before, or not to a degree to make "that" much of a difference.

If they were gaining about 2-3k cr on mistrunning before the passes, now they are gaining what? twice? 3 times as much? 5 times as much?
More importantly, what will they spend it on? CE we say ( of course), but how much will they use? to be gaining that *low* amount of crowns, my estimate is they are somewhat between t1 and t2 runners, so what are they making? 3* gear? maybe 4*? you think that competes with ragecrafting for UV hunting, or those upgrading alternate sets to 5*?

if they were gaining more than that, I don't know, doing FSC or whatever they pleased, why would them have been mistrunning since they already had the means of playing more while still gaining more than what they spent? Yes, the energy that they would previously have spent on elevator is now spent on other stuff ( mine is, indeed!), but I do not think that how much they play and how much CE they spend each day is largely affected.

Since you're trying to give an estimate on how much of gain the elevator pass is for me, when I'm in crown farming mode my income right now with the available gates is about 8k cr per 15 minutes per 30 CE spent ( after I deplete my other accounts mist, for I have bought the pass only on my main account).
Before the pass, it would have been 8k cr per 15 minutes per 80 CE spent ( again, after mist), so i might not have run that but run FSC instead, or run that with mist and then FSC.
no matter, my point isn't how much crowns I gain for each CE I spend( I suppose you can mount an argument/discussion on that), my point is that for the same thing I'm spending much less CE, CE that I otherwise spend on other stuff or not spend at all, either way the amount of time i play didn't change, the amount of crowns per day I gain didn't change, the amount of CE I spend is the same if I'm crafitng stuff or *way* less if I'm saving up crowns for punch/expensive stuff in the AH

Before the elevator pass, I was not running 8-10 hours a day on CE. Now, however, I do run the Clockworks 8-10 hours on average.
Please, could you tell me why you were not playing more before the elevator pass? also, if oyu want, can you tell me how much crowns you were making before and how much you are making now?
And an extimate of how much CE you're consuming each day? I'm just looking for a mileage, my average consumption of CE per day when I'm crafting stuff is about 3,2-4k CE each day, when I'm not crafting but just messing around the clockworks is somewhat around 0 because mist is more than enough for energy gates revives and whatnot

I hate to break your bubble fair enough, strawman to strawman :3 I apologize

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 15:28

#12

Kupoo

@Aumir

Purchasing that 3200 CE both raises the supply and lowers the demand of CE. The demand lowers because the purchaser no longer needs to buy CE using crowns, whereas the supply increases due to mystifyingly inexplicable reasons (no, really, guess). Even if that CE is being hoarded by the player, there is a net increase in the overall amount of CE circulating.

On the other hand, purchasing that Elevator Pass does *not* increase the supply of CE, but the supply of crowns. Currently, it is far more worthwhile to purchase the Pass and buy CE using crowns than it is to purchase the CE directly. This raises CE demand, stalls CE injection into the game community, and causes an overall reduction in the amount of CE available (as CE is constantly being used, but not produced). And, as stated above, the increasing scarcity of CE then drives the crown price up.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 15:49

#13

Ciopo

@ Carthian, sorry if I'm

@ Carthian, sorry if I'm double posting, but when I typed my last wall of text you hadn't replied yet, and it's likely I'm not even double posting now, but w/e

Once again I see that you have no notion of the supply-demand dynamic. I have a (little) notion of it, but university was years ago and economics wasn't even main course, so , my apologies.

My first point is ( well, an opinion of mine) that of those that income is "little", their extra income of crown is still "Little", and still limited by time

CE purchases for gates: specifically on that, exactly because "time" is the limit for those who sells CE for crowns, I think they will keep selling CE for crowns, because situations arises where they will want crowns "there and now", just like how I sell CE from time to time when I want *this and that* from the AH or I fell like punching UV but I don't feel like farming crowns myself, this might have changed for some, but how much? as stated in my last post, my gripe is with those calling "doom the prices will skyrocket because of blablabla" when they already have stabilized themself

I do not think the prices will keep going out, I was more pointing out that the prices aren't still skyrocketing, I know they tend to the equilibrium :(

I see what you say about high price stuff, and I counterpoint that those who can afford/buy these stuff, are likely to be P2P players or otherwise not someone who is concerned of buying CE with crowns, on virtue that if they can afford stuff costing 10k+ CE, they may be annoyed that CE costs now 7,2-3k cr instead of 6k cr, but this doesn't put a dent on their gameplay

As for your last paragraph, I suppose I'm at fault for not being clear, I'm sorry.

I'd say, in my opinion, yes, elevator passes caused an increase in the cost of CE in crowns, however, I do not think prices will "skyrocket" because CE demand seems to have settled and crown income seems to be settled tool, if anything I'm seeing a slighty downward tendency after the huge bump up that I too attribute mainly to speculation.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 16:31

#14

Aumir

@Kupoo

Yeah, I know you aren't creating actual CE, but see it this way: You are purchasing an amount of ~2000CE that is preset to be spent ONLY on elevator purposes, that is what the elevator pass is in a nutshell. After playing A LOT, you can then make profit. Which would be done running through more than 200 levels to begin burning "inexistent CE".

Elevator pass should count for a lot of bought CE automatically in the market because of that.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 16:54

#15

Huhbum

re: data

huhbum: "Before the elevator pass, I was not running 8-10 hours a day on CE. Now, however, I do run the Clockworks 8-10 hours on average."

Ciopo: "Please, could you tell me why you were not playing more before the elevator pass? also, if you want, can you tell me how much crowns you were making before and how much you are making now?
And an extimate of how much CE you're consuming each day? I'm just looking for a mileage, my average consumption of CE per day when I'm crafting stuff is about 3,2-4k CE each day, when I'm not crafting but just messing around the clockworks is somewhat around 0 because mist is more than enough for energy gates revives and whatnot"

My response:

I was not playing more before the elevator pass, because I was running on Mist Energy only, doing runs as my mist would allow on my alt character(this char) and my main. Since I was only T1/T2 enabled(now my main can do T3, but I haven't yet done FSC yet because I believe my skill and gear to be inadequate), I did not think it an appropriate use of my time to burn CE to do runs for marginal profit.

Also, to give you an idea of my spending habits, before the elevator pass I only purchased CE once($2.50) to unlock an alt account for Mist Energy and to play T1 with friends.

I estimate I would make about 8-9k cr per day, using both mist bars, running JK/Twins/Snarby/Arenas/etc.

As for current consumption after purchasing the Elevator Pass? I have been keeping data, both for personal knowledge and to provide factual information to contribute to the Elevator Pass discussion. Since I'm only about one-third through my pass, I was hoping to wait until it was done before providing raw data, but since you asked, here you go:

(LOTS OF NUMBERS INCOMING)

ELEVATOR PASS DATA.
GOAL: To make back 2000CE worth of crowns
2000CE @ 6400cr/100CE = 128000cr
2000CE @ 7000cr/100CE = 140000cr
2000CE @ 8000cr/100CE = 160000cr

Day 1(Nov 17 2011)
46 Elevators used (460 Energy)
Crowns started:15150
Crowns ended:37363
Crowns spent(non-elevators):26385
Crowns made(non-elevators):0
Total gain from elevators:48598
Cumulative total:48598
Notes:JK run spam

Day 2(Nov 18 2011)
25 Elevators used (250 Energy)
Crowns started:37363
Crowns ended:19039
Crowns spent(non-elevators):54625
Crowns made(non-elevators):11016
Total gain from elevators:25285
Cumulative total:73883
Notes:More JK runs

Day 3(Nov 19 2011)
54 Elevators used (540 Energy)
Crowns started:19039
Crowns ended:27640
Crowns spent(non-elevators):35562
Crowns made(non-elevators):0
Total gain from elevators:44163
Cumulative total:118046
Notes:Tested skipping levels a few times,
mostly JK runs

Day 4(Nov 20 2011)
39 Elevators used (390 Energy)
Crowns started:27640
Crowns ended:41962
Crowns spent(non-elevators):23518
Crowns made(non-elevators):0
Total gain from elevators:37840
Cumulative total:155886
Notes:JK runs, with some depth diving

Day 5(Nov 21 2011)
17 Elevators used (170 Energy)
Crowns started:41962
Crowns ended:44699
Crowns spent(non-elevators):24490
Crowns made(non-elevators):7300
Total gain from elevators:19927
Cumulative total:175813
Notes:A few JK runs, mostly from terminal

Day 6(Nov 22 2011)
42 Elevators used (420 Energy)
Crowns started:44699
Crowns ended:84044
Crowns spent(non-elevators):0
Crowns made(non-elevators):0
Total gain from elevators:39345
Cumulative total:215158
Notes:T1 run to remove crown cost for new JK
gate, and more JK runs

Day 7(Nov 23 2011)
0 Elevators used (0 Energy)
Crowns started:84044
Crowns ended:84244
Crowns spent(non-elevators):400
Crowns made(non-elevators):600
Total gain from elevators:0
Cumulative total:215158
Notes:Busy day at work/school, no time for SK

Day 8(Nov 24 2011)
16 Elevators used (160 Energy)
Crowns started:84244
Crowns ended:92550
Crowns spent(non-elevators):0
Crowns made(non-elevators):0
Total gain from elevators:8306
Cumulative total:223464
Notes:Tried T3 for the first time, otherwise
some minor depth diving on a JK run, not much
time today

Day J(Nov 25 2011)
22 Elevators used (220 Energy)
Crowns started:92550
Crowns ended:111074
Crowns spent(non-elevators):0
Crowns made(non-elevators):0
Total gain from elevators:18524
Cumulative total:241988
Notes:Depth Diving JK runs, TGIF

Day 10(Nov 26 2011)
41 Elevators used (410 Energy)
Crowns started:111074
Crowns ended:109098
Crowns spent(non-elevators):32666
Crowns made(non-elevators):0
Total gain from elevators:30690
Cumulative total:272678
Notes:DD JK runs, T3 Basil runs

Day 11(Nov 27 2011)
33 Elevators used (330 Energy)
Crowns started:109098
Crowns ended:105228
Crowns spent(non-elevators):39372
Crowns made(non-elevators):0
Total gain from elevators:35502
Cumulative total:308180
Notes:DD JK runs

Day 12(Nov 28 2011)
(in progress)

There. Extract from those results whatever conclusion about me or my playstyle that you will. But I am playing exponentially more in the Clockworks, and making exponentially more crowns, directly as a result of me owning an Elevator Pass.

Cheers.

EDIT: I should add that this work is done entirely on my main character, since I have no time to play on my alt(Huhbum) now except for minor crafting/AH browsing. The added side effect of having a Pass is that I now have two Mist Energy bars to use solely on crafting and buying trinket/weapon slots, which I could not afford before.

Also, I should mention that I am a below-average equipped character(only got T3 access on Day 1, currently gear is only 4*, one weapon slot activated yesterday, no trinkets, no UV's), with only average skill and below-average social connections in-game. Someone who has very good gear, very good skill, and many social connections to do runs with / join at terminals / etc. could make significantly more crowns per run, per hour, and per day than I am currently capable of(or make the same amount for much, much less effort).

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 16:40

#16

Aumir

Wait, what?

...Have I just read "I run 8-10 hours a day Clockworks"?
...
I would make a witty joke but... I am now a bit at a loss of words after seeing all that data.
...
*I get away from the keyboard to breathe* I had to do it, sorry.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 16:50

#17

Echo

Kupoo explains it perfectly

Kupoo explains it perfectly and his post is short for those of you who don't want to read for 10 minutes straight. You can't really argue with his logic there.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 16:58

#18

Huhbum

comments

@#16: yes, I am a tryhard and I have no life. Could you imagine the good I could do in this world if I had a job I enjoyed as much as video games? :P

@#17: Kupoo is awesome. Link his post if you want people to read it though!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 17:04

#19

Kwizzy

Before throwing a

Because of speculators & the exploit.

If the elevator pass was the cause of CE going up, it would still be going up today.

edit: For the record, it was barely under 6900 when the passes were announced. So it didn't even go up by 10% except a temporary blip.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 17:08

#20

Huhbum

response

@#19: It may be possible that you are correct and that the ~800cr increase in CE prices is solely the result of market speculation based on the perceived impact of the Elevator Pass.

However, I do not think that it is as a result of the exploit, as the timing would not be correlative. The market had already spiked up ~450cr previously at the time the exploit was made public, and that was at least a week prior to the announcement of the Elevator Pass.

More likely it is a combination of effects, but said speculation, even if it is the sole cause, is still based on the implementation of the Pass.

As to your final point, CE prices may yet rise more. But it does seem to have temporarily stabilized for the last day or two @ 7100-7300.

Edit: You are incorrect. Market price for CE was @6400 at the exact moment the Pass was announced. It IMMEDIATELY spiked up to 6600, and was 6900 by the time the Pass was a day old. That is why the top data number of my "goal" was @6400 cr; it was the price of CE at the beginning of the day that the pass was released, representing the 'old' CE cost.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 17:40

#21

Fauxhownd

Nobody is answering this

Nobody is answering this question:

WILL CE prices come down again once elevator passes are gone?

Cause I have over 500k crowns right now and am saving them until passes expire.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 17:49

#22

Huhbum

response

@#21

This depends entirely on whether or not the Elevator Passes will actually stay or go, at what cost they will be to the purchaser, and the effect(if any) of the upcoming crown sinks in the next patch.

Speculating is frequently a gamble. I agree with you, and if I had that much of a crown surplus, I would probably wait and see if the CE prices decreased as well. Since I am spending crowns as fast as I get them in order to get my gear to 5*, I don't have that luxury.

THE FOLLOWING IS NOT TO BE TAKEN AS AN ACCURATE PREDICTION OF THE MARKET. IT IS SIMPLY AN EDUCATED GUESS. FOLLOW THIS INFORMATION AT YOUR OWN RISK.

But I am inclined to think that, although prices will probably increase in the near future(and possibly spike as high as 8k), they may eventually decrease again to around pre-Pass levels due to the upcoming patch and other potential factors(Christmas CE sales, Elevator Pass price increase).

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 17:52

#23

Fauxhownd

OOO has explicitly stated

OOO has explicitly stated that the Elevator Pass is a temporary, limited-time offer, and will not be a permanent addition to the Energy Depot. So it's not gonna stick around unless a huge number of players petition for it.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 18:07

#24

Carthiah

Kupoo basically hit the nail

Kupoo basically hit the nail on the head with his response. The supply of CE went down because elevator passes are not inflating the circulation of CE; low stock of CE, higher price.

I don't think much more needs to be said outside of what Kupoo and Huhbum have said.

As for the final question, it can be anticipated that the CE market will come back down again, however elevator passes are still being sold, and they last for a month. OOO will probably provide market incentives to both make profit for the company and drop the CE market value, such as the energy sale. The market probably will not see much of a drop before all passes expire, however, even with these incentives, so we're looking at over a month before the market will see any significant deflation. You might as well buy what you need now, or else you'll be waiting for a while.

EDIT: Regarding Ciopo's post, I didn't realize you were agreeing that the market will stabilize.
Markets always tend to stabilize. The Pass did drive the market value of CE up, but a common misconception is that a rising market will continue to rise at a steady rate until the cause is removed. This is almost always false, as the cause will actually simply increase the average "worth" of a product, and the market will naturally settle itself in at the new product price. This rise will happen suddenly at first, then settle off and hover around the new price.
People who think that the Pass will cause the market to steadily rise until the end of time are either misinformed or misformed.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 18:25

#25

Fauxhownd

I have full 5-star FSC

I have full 5-star FSC equipment and 3k CE in my reserves, so I don't need to buy anything.

Guess I'll just continue to let my wallet grow. My goal is 2 million crowns by the time my pass expires (12/21/11).

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:15

#26

Nicoya-Kitty

@Tammytryhard OOO stated that

@Tammytryhard OOO stated that the pass is a limited time experiment, and may or may not stick around or return at a later date, depending on who buys it and how it's used.

The best way to get it to stick around is probably to buy it and tab your newb friends through the clockworks with your mist. You know the type, the ones who can't find the shield button and gleefully spam the energy revive faster than you can race over to heart-rev them. Now you can stick them on elevators-only and actually get a few hours of play time with them.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:37

#27

Fauxhownd

Not me. I use my spare Mist

Not me. I use my spare Mist to open doors, revive, and craft. If I get 100, I'll sink it into a Trinket Upgrade and sell it for 125CE. Turn 100ME into a 75CE profit.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:58

#28

Psychodestroyer

AGH!

TEXT WALLS!

MY EYES BUUUUUUUUUURN! D:

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:07

#29

Twiddle

Paid players are one angle of

Paid players are one angle of the energy market. I too have an elevator pass, yet I have not paid any crowns for energy because I have a large amount of CE left over from my previous purchases. However, I am not everyone. There are those whom have bought the elevator pass and are using their crowns to buy CE. These people will raise the CE price because they can get more crowns per day.

Exactly how much this is raising energy prices is still being determined. Currently it seems that energy is selling for about 2000 crowns more than it did before the pass came out. We will see if this is a sustainable model for free to play players.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:13

#30

Kickthebucket

i have a pass and i didn't

i have a pass and i didn't spend not 1 crown on energy (i still had enough to finish the stuff i wanted and filling it up with heat now) i'm just waiting for the CE/crown value to go down again, same as the people who DON'T have the pass... stop accusing people for things that you don't have ANY proof of they had something to do with! for all i know i'm saving up the crown to get me a set of wings in one of the upcomming updates. (and now you say THAT'S unfair because YOU want it, am i right?)

+1 for the OP

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:23

#31

Dirt

Anyone who agrees with the OP

Anyone who agrees with the OP doesn't know what the hell they're talking about, haha.

Search

My elevator pass is not the cause of the increase in cost of the CE