Spiral Knights - [complaint] Recipe sellers holding spot that cause other players to lose lift energy when joined

[complaint] Recipe sellers holding spot that cause other players to lose lift energy when joined

18 replies [Last post]

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 13:21

Heron

Scenario.

Person A descend to recipe merchant and finds hot recipes, stays AFK and communicate with guild channel while the guild mate sells them in the bazaar for profit. They exchange crowns/recipes via the mailbox.

This is not a problem or exploit if person A locked himself as the party leader.
When other players join the group they lose lift energy as person A stays AFK for the duration.

This is a flawed game design.
I lost energy and want compensation.
Filed a complaint against this individual and I hope the developer can somehow fix this potential problem.

Have a good day.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 13:33

requiemaeter

Legacy Username

Edit: I'm dumb and yeah,

Edit: I'm dumb and yeah, nevermind.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 13:30

Tumble

Legacy Username

I agree with this issue. Not

I agree with this issue. Not only recipe sellers, but also people who are afk. I've eaten a lot of my crowns and energy already. I think this would be solved by simply having a vote kick option. It would also solve the potential problem of people screwing around and not hitting the team button.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 13:35

Tumble

Legacy Username

edit

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 13:39

Daeval

Legacy Username

If you joined and were sent

If you joined and were sent to the recipe seller's level, then you had access to the recipe seller. This doesn't make it cool, but as long as the elevator/join costs are priced appropriately, so that you paid the right amount for access to the seller and didn't pay up front for the next dungeon level or back-taxes on those above, then the flawed design isn't really THAT flawed.

I'm not prepared to say that things ARE priced appropriately, however. That may need tweaking.

Also, some kind of vote/kick/create splinter group/whatever option would be really nice regardless.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 14:11

Heron

Simple solution, bind recipes

Simple solution, bind recipes on pick up or once bought.
I love the recipe trading but at least it will stop AFKer.. costing others energy lift toll.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 14:02

tiwddles

Legacy Username

The easiest solution would be

The easiest solution would be to lock join-on-floors to only the lobby floors and the floor immediately afterwards. Most people tend not to like join-ins halfway or late in a tier, and this is simply part of that problem.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 14:18

King-Tinkinzar

Yeah there was this person

Yeah there was this person that went AFK to eat dinner while in the terminal... (I got there right when she was about to go eat)

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 14:26

Heron

place a large visual timer on

make it so players cannot join on those floors.

In addition, place a large visual timer on those levels.
perhaps 2-3 mins max before you are forced to select ascend or descend for the lift.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 16:32

Rence

Legacy Username

Against the timer but...

While I agree, jumping into a afk persons area is irritating, I personally when doing solo will use the Termials as pit stops to head to the bathroom, get some food, or take care of other life things now that I know Im in a safe spot. So putting a timer on it in a effort to hurry players up will hurt those of us who maybe have something crop up that needs our attention.

I would think a easy route would be if a player is afk (Be he solo or in a group) make it so people cannot join that persons party.

Also the ability so splinter a group (as earlier suggested) I think would work well here so one person, possibly the leader of the party, can't hold the rest of the groupe hostage, But by the same account, this should only work at termials I think, otherwise you could end up having say a group clear Red Carpet Run Around and one person stays behind with his own group selling "Passes" to groups of 1-3 players to go in straight to the Royal Slime for 20 Energy.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 17:07

#10

Xcommando

Legacy Username

ikr

IKR it must be annoying to get a AFK in a party. Its also why I hate going AFK, because i don't want to trouble my party, but my mom doesn't give me time to finish anything or whatever. D: I was in a party and had to AFK for dinner once. >_< I could have let my food wait tell I finished the floor but mom was nagging me. (off-topic rambling. xD)

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 18:17

#11

Negimasonic

The easiest solution is to

The easiest solution is to implement a self kick option:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/2156

Preventing someone from joining on a party floor WON'T stop someone from joining an AFK user, that's where the real problem is. If you join a party you don't like, you should be able to remove yourself from the party at any time, it makes very little sense that the only way to leave a party is for the leader to kick you or go back to haven on your own.

This idea would allow guildies to stand around as long as they like and move on when they need to without interrupting anyone else's activities. Or vice versa

Please support that idea >.> (advertising)

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 01:26

#12

Eeks

Negima, I support you on self

Negima,
I support you on self kick. That would be a nice addition but dropping into clockworks still charges you 10 energy which is annoying. I would rather them remove joining when randomly matching with a party.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 08:29

#13

Hobocannibal

Legacy Username

Being able to kick yourself

Being able to kick yourself from the party without leaving would work...

Another solution would be that if the target party is on the subtown, have the elevator cost include the crowns for skipping to that tier rather than on entering the subtown. That way anyone who is joining from haven will still have to pay once they've confirmed they want to start from tier 2/3 with the party they have been assigned. Whilst anyone who has just reached the area from the previous tier still won't have to pay anything due to having been granted clearance by doing a successful run.

If the target party is not on a subtown, then charge the fee as normal.
That sound ok?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 10:42

#14

Negimasonic

@Eek I think a way to solve

@Eek

I think a way to solve the problem of this joining at subtowns when you don't want to is to do this:

Allow the setting of one of two options when joining a party.

*Join levels in progress.
*Join any.

Levels in progress would only allow you to join...a level in progress. Meaning only action levels. It would also be good if the game tended to match you with a party that has just started a level rather than one that's mostly done. Naturally, places like Jelly King and treasure vaults will still be locked to prevent whatever exploitation that they saw when they made those places "restricted".

Join any would allow you to join any party. Similar to above but you'd have the existing low chance to join a party at a Clockworks terminal.

I wouldn't want to see random party joining eliminated entirely because the most random people have sometimes joined me when I was in a bad situation and I was grateful for their help. Sometimes I made more "friends" outta that.

But perhaps the ability to randomly join a party at Moorcraft or Emberlight should be eliminated entirely because of the controversy of people not being able to cross for tier reasons or crafting, etc etc. Either way, it tends to represent a 10 energy loss that is NEVER beneficial unlike joining at a terminal where it MAY be beneficial.

@Hobocannibal
Took me awhile to wrap my head around your proposal. I can support it for the subtowns. But not so much for the Terminals. ONLY because for someone who is actually recipe hunting, this could be profitable for them since they'd no longer need to waste energy to dive to the terminal. If they didn't like what they saw, they get to leave scot free. However, I will say the risk of taking advantage of this is pretty low since you oughta have at best a 1 in 7 chance (using Tier 1 as an example) of actually being able to do that. So I can still support it without any changes to your idea.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 11:07

#15

spookas

Legacy Username

Agree with NegimaSonic's

Agree with NegimaSonic's post. Being able to join random parties is really useful and a lot of fun most of the time, but I lost 10E from joining a party that was on a non-action level, and I was kinda peeved, and I'm not even a paying customer (yet). If I'd actually spent money to play...

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 12:50

#16

Heron

what about no E fee on midway

what about no E fee on midway terminals but a one time fee is charged when accessing the recipe merchant?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:21

#17

dukelexon

Legacy Username

@NegimaSonic I think a way to

@NegimaSonic

I think a way to solve the problem of this joining at subtowns when you don't want to is to do this:

Allow the setting of one of two options when joining a party.

*Join levels in progress.
*Join any.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the main focus of the original poster's problem kind of sailed over your head. The subtowns are a special case, and are completely exempted from his complaints. They should be excluded entirely. The only vendors that exist in the subtowns are the set-item quartermaster (Kozma) whose merchandise literally NEVER changes, and the action items available on the town vendors, so there's not any of these recipe-campers squatting in them. It's not a problem; anyone AFK in them is doing so for unrelated reasons. I'm fairly certain that the original poster was posting this problem as affecting terminals ONLY.

What's more, I don't think there's any energy cost associated whatsoever with going right to a subtown. Terminal, yes. The subtown lift to the surface is a 0-energy cost, however, and you aren't charged any energy to simply wind up in it either. Test for yourself, completely solo. I'll reimburse your energy if you actually get hit with a cost for just going to Moorcraft, and coming right back to Haven.

What's more, given that there's no reason to want to avoid joining a party in Moorcraft and Emberlight in the first place -- those places, for all intents and purposes, are the beginning of a full tier clear, and they're a spot where you can gather together, purchase stuff for the journey ahead, and say your greetings. They were intended to be such. I enjoy starting a party there, and I'd be pretty damn grouchy if the option was removed for no particular reason.

The terminals, on the other hand, cost energy to get out of, and serve merely as midway points meant to be rest stops and a place to pick up rare recipes halfway down. THAT'S the problem the original poster was complaining about.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 18:12

#18

Negimasonic

@Dukelexon,I already replied

@Dukelexon,

I already replied to the original topic at this post:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/3532#comment-18878
My solution solves any and all problems concerning AFK players no matter what the reason is.

Eek however made another suggestion past that, to which I responded directly.

As for the rest of your post, I'll leave it to someone else to explain what I meant, or I'll come back later as I'm at the library and the timer is reading 2 minutes remaining. I will say that I believe you are forgetting that I was talking about the "join party button" 25 seconds remaining. I'm out

EDIT: 2 hours later and I'm back lol.

So by paragraph, each part shall be given a number. But note that most things won't require a big reply lol.

1. As written above, I already provided a solution for his and other problems like this. It just needs to be implemented in some form. Overlooking that one point kind of makes replying to the rest of this worthless as it was based on the assumption that originally I was talking about subtowns.

2. There's not. Which isn't in my original post anyway. However, in the case of pressing "join party", should you end up at a subtown, it is applied last I checked. And should you run into one of the tier crossover cases or anything along those lines, sure you are allowed to "continue on alone", but that serves no purpose as now you have to pay another 10 energy for having gone nowhere. If you press join party, you should skip the subtown entirely. Because 9 times out of 10, you weren't trying to start at a subtown when you pressed that button, instead you were trying to head straight into the action. This has NO bearing on starting a party on your own. You should continue to be able to do so, however, no one will ever join your party on the subtown level itself, they'll join you on the actual level. Preferably the first depth following the subtown. Naturally you can also still invite friends and guildmates if they wanted to start from a subtown, but once again, most people don't choose to join you at a subtown when they know in advance, they choose to join you at a level or a terminal.

3. Well that junk up there in #2 are the reasons for wanting to avoid joining a party at Moorcraft and Emberlight. If I wanted to add a reason, especially without free vitapods, there's even less incentive to want to start there by choosing Join Party. Let's say we put a price on energy increments, well energy is heading towards 4000 crowns (I'm rounding up to just make it easier), so that means 10 energy is worth 400. Why would you want to pay 400 crowns to start at Moorcraft to gain nothing?

It's easier to just start your own party, at least it'd only cost 200 crowns (and it'd be free if you had walked down from the beginning but that's another issue). Not to mention if you do this and actually bothered to buy a vitapod which costs like 800 just for a +4, that's even more money, when usually if you just went ahead you would've found a vitapod for free in the next level or two (same thing for the super insert basic status here vials). And once again, if you truly wanted those things, you would not opt to join a party when you have a 1 out of 9 (I think?) chance of starting somewhere else besides Moorcraft. Though that estimation is a bit off given that I believe the game has a preference for starting you in the first half of a stratum whenever possible more so than the second half, but either way, you can't guarantee that you'd end up in Moorcraft.

Now one point about that 400 cost I mentioned, that actually would be a savings in concern to Emberlight (since it costs 500 to start a party there), but there's no guarantee energy will stay at a cost of 4000 crowns and won't eventually rise to 5000 crowns. All the beta players believe it will at least. Besides, most of the game's population is not in Emberlight, they're at Moorcraft or Tier 1 so losing 400 crowns for no reason when you could start a party for less than that is pointless.

But all of that is solved by Hobocannibal's solution, if you end up at a subtown, you don't have to pay energy unless you choose to continue on with the party that you joined up with (and should you choose to do so, you also have to pay the crowns as if you started the party at that level yourself).

4. Back to the original thing. I already answered the solution for that. In case you never clicked the link, it's called self kicking.

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[complaint] Recipe sellers holding spot that cause other players to lose lift energy when joined