I recently got tier 3 access and before I start attempting Vanaduke runs I want to make sure I have the right kind of equipment. Obviously fire protection is a must, but after that what should I have? I would greatly appreciate input on what armors are good for FSC.
Firestorm Citadel Armor Questions…
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 16:10
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 17:45
#2
i use the vog coat/divine
i use the vog coat/divine VEIL!! (fiend bonus) and i think it works wonders :) (fire takes no longer then 3 seconds) and you can withstand a slash from a zombie (without loosing half you health haha) other combo's should work just as good (i do think this one is the most used)
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 17:53
#3
this
I started doing FSC with ashtail set, Wise owlite shield, avenger, and GW pulsar
I was a beast
just ask all those zombies that i pwned
anyways.....the armor doesnt matter as much as your skill does. If you can dodge, knock things away, and be careful where you step, you can farm FSC with any decent set (doesnt have to have fire or shadow resist) but then again, fire/shadow def helps in case u get slapped by a zombie or step on a fire block.
BUTTTTTT
But But But..........good fire/shadow def on your shield is VERY important, because your shield matters so much more than your armor. If your shield breaks in 1-2 hits, you can have the best armor with 3 Max UVs and ul still die fast. Get a good shield. Good shield before anything else
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 18:27
#4
Hmm
Vog Set is better than Divine Set or Divine/Vog for pure defensive purposes in FSC. Going Divine Set means no Normal defense which means you have no protection from Vanaduke's mace smash or Trojan charges. Going half Divine means you aren't as protected as you could be from Vanaduke and Trojans.
The two options are also no better than Vog Set against zombie swipes. Zombies are half Normal and half Shadow. So with Divine Set you are only blocking the shadow and not the normal. With Divine/Vog you are only blocking half of each (approximately the same as blocking one and ignoring the other.)
Divine Avenger is very popular in FSC because it is very efficient. I've been mostly using Levi or Voltedge in FSC but if I want to finish quickly instead of taking my time to enjoy slag slaying then I'll use a DA for its massive damage. The DA benefits tremendously from Vog's ASI, much moreso than a measly 14% increased damage to Trojans - the only opponent affected by a fiend bonus in FSC.
I like to see people wearing things other than Vog Set in FSC. I've done FSC in full Mad Bomber, and it was quite fun. Just understand that other equipment choices can't stack up defensively.
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 18:57
#5
I was thinking of getting the
I was thinking of getting the Vog set or going with the Vog coat and the Divine Veil, but I wasn’t sure about the lack of normal protection on the veil.
@Alynn Yeah, I have a Wise Owlite Shield with increased shadow defense High that I am thinking of working up to a Grey Owlite.
@Culture So it’s pretty much pick your poison then as far as armor goes ?
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 19:30
#6
I believe Antistone did some
I believe Antistone did some tests and proved that it was better to have some of both types of damage than go all out in one type of damage
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 20:50
#7
Yeah...
That's absolutely right when defending against split damage attacks. Antistone has a lot of defense tables here over here:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:Antistone#Predictions
1 piece of defense blocks 25.3%, whereas two pieces blocks 44.1% of a typed damage. So mixing Divine/Vog should block 50.6% of a perfectly split damage attack compared to 44.1% of just Vog or just Divine. This small difference has the mixed armor ahead by 0.5-1 pips of damage vs something mixed like a Zombie swipe.
Against a Trojan, Slag Guard or Vanaduke doing pure Normal, full Vog should block 44.1% and mixed should block just 25.3%... a much bigger spread. There are other factors in play, so it isn't quite that big of a spread but that's the general idea.
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 23:13
#8
I'm curious if anyone's tried
I'm curious if anyone's tried Volcanic Plate Mail with Divine Veil. It seems like it would make a good mix, though a low ASD might be slightly annoying when trying to avoid zombie swipes. (though nothing a few trinkets or UVs can't cure)
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 03:42
#9
Thanks for the explanation
Thanks for the explanation Culture. I always thought Divine Veil was overrated, since it doesn't have normal damage resistance, now i'll have some facts to answer those guys stating you should take Divine Veil.
As for ASI, i can answer that, as a DA user (may not apply if you use brandish series) : you really want some ASI so that you can do your full combo without being hit. Without ASI, it is hard to get the full combo without getting hit before the second swing. The more ASI you have, the more forgiving the timing is (meaning, you can start your combo later and still interrupt the zombie instead of getting hit). That and the advantage of early shield cancel means you should really seek ASI : Max.
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 14:56
#10
Right now I am only using two
Right now I am only using two weapon slots with the Cold Iron Carver and Master Blaster (these are my only 4* weapons as of now)…
Would these be alright for FSC?
I do have a Sealed Sword, but it will probably be awhile before I upgrade it to an Avenger. The ASI for the Sealed Sword line makes a lot of sense though… I will make sure to remember that when I finally use one.
Also, are there any other shields I should consider using or will a Wise Owlite be just fine?
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:28
#11
responses
Fradow, people like Divine Veil because when paired with Skolver Coat it makes an awesome general-purpose set. They don't really try to build specialized sets with Divine Veil, do they?
Marquito, CIC/CIV is a pretty good weapon for FSC, especially with CTR. Master Blaster is not great, but better than nothing, I guess. I recommend that you play depths 24-26 or 24-27 solo a few times, to learn how things work. The Vanaduke fight will be tough, but you can fill a role in a decent party, if they assign you to water/zombie/slag duty. Owlite is good.
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 00:53
#12
@Bopp : i often see Divine
@Bopp : i often see Divine Veil with Vog in FSC, and it has always struck me as sub-optimal. There are also a tons of threads where people advise to get Divine Veil for FSC, paired with Vog. And i even had a guy telling me to drop full Vog to go full Divine, pretending it would have better result in FSC ...
So yes, they build specialized set for FSC with Divine Veil.
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:51
#13
@Fradow So is the lack of
@Fradow So is the lack of normal protection the only reason you do not like the Divine Veil/Vog combo for FSC?
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:05
#14
you could also use a snarby
you could also use a snarby cap (but then you'll loose ellemental defence to normal) or get a divine set with normal defence MAX uv (that would solve all the problems hehe)
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:15
#15
@Kickthebucket How hard is
@Kickthebucket How hard is it to find a max UV?
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 00:23
#16
@Marquito It's one of the 2
@Marquito It's one of the 2 reasons, but the biggest yes. Trojans and Vana mace are deadly, while zombies, even without shadow protection, are easy to deal with with my DA if i have ASI : Max.
The other reason is the lack of ASI or general damage bonus. I'd rather have a wolver part for that reason, and I take Vog over others because of fire protection (I did some runs with only 1 fire resist part, and while it's doable, fire hurts like hell).
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:06
#17
A bit off topic.
I plan on trying FSC soon and could use some input on the loadout I'm planning.
Vog Cub Cap
Vog Cub Coat
Wise Owlite Shield
Cold Iron Carver
Silversix
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:24
#18
on topic
Reinforced-Tin-Man, your post is delightfully on-topic. Your loadout looks good, because CIC's charge attack and undead bonus are great on hordes of zombies. Of course, CIV is even better. Silversix is fine for everything up to the Vanaduke fight, but not great in the Vanaduke fight.
The standard approach (not the only approach, of course) to phases 1, 3, and 5 of Vanaduke is to keep him in perpetual freeze using Shivermist Buster, while one or more party members unload Blitz/Plague Needle charges into his back. The remaining players fend off zombies/slags and put out fires.
Above all, do not fire Silversix at Vanaduke willy-nilly, because you'll break the freeze and disrupt the blitzers. Coordinate with the blitzers, or stick to zombie/slag/fire duty.
Thu, 12/15/2011 - 20:05
#19
Thank you all for the advice
Thank you all for the advice on FSC!
Fri, 12/16/2011 - 06:06
#20
IMO Full Vog is better than
IMO Full Vog is better than Veil+Vog.
Zombies do almost same damage to full Vog or Vog+Divine.
Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:10
#21
@Culture
In practice though
@Culture
In practice though this isn't true (I have run with all those combinations). Defense has diminishing returns so having half normal/ half shadow is actually better than full normal with zombie attacks.
As an example (numbers are only representative) - lets say a zombie does 9 points of normal and 9 points of shadow. Having full normal will only protect you from 8 points of normal letting 10 points through. Having half and half will give you 5 points of protection from normal and 5 from shadow allowing only 8 points through. This is all because every point added in protection is less effective than the previous point. The second half of normal damage protection is less effective than the first half of shadow protection.
So having double normal is only more effective against things that are pure normal - which is unfortunately common in FSC.
Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:34
#22
@ Realnight that's exactly
@ Realnight that's exactly what Culture said, with actual numbers proving what he is saying.
The point is : seeing that zombies are not that threatning compared to trojans/Vana, it's not worth to go for Divine.
Fri, 12/16/2011 - 19:33
#23
How did I miss his second
How did I miss his second post? So yeah - my bad
Fri, 12/16/2011 - 21:42
#24
I do fine.
I just got T3 access on Tuesday and immediately started on FSC runs. I've been doing fine-fairly well with a Dark Thorn Blade, Dark Thorn Shield, Ash Tail Set, and an Avenger.
Fri, 12/16/2011 - 23:53
#25
skelly armour + grey feather cowl + skelly shield = any good ?
i guess im one of those weird one that got a grey feather (instead of a vog cub). given that FSC is mainly fire as a source of damage, requiring shadow as defense (i think) - i take it that - skelly armour + grey feathered cowl + skelly shield - would be a reasonable FSC set ? i''ll likely bring along DA & blitz needle to cover elemental and piercing offense, leaving out my shadow weapons. thank you for feedback in advance. and merry christmas :)
Sat, 12/17/2011 - 07:50
#26
good, except for fire
Leeroyj, your weapons are fine: DA, Blitz, and Shivermist are perhaps the classic weapons, and you don't need both Blitz and Shivermist, as long as someone else in the party has the other one. Definitely leave your shadow weapons at home.
Your armor makes sense (normal, elemental, and shadow), except that the Dread Skelly is weak to fire. The Grey Feathered Cowl puts you back to somewhere around neutral on fire I guess, but it would be nice to have actual fire protection. Maybe get a trinket and some UVs? A shadow shield is quite nice in FSC, although again some fire protection might help.
Sat, 12/17/2011 - 08:34
#27
Hmmm...
Leeroyj,
Instead of Dread Skelly, Go for Armor of the Fallen I think. It provides Normal and Shadow defense alongside fire resistance. It's what I use anyways.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Armor_of_the_fallen
Of course you will have a medium damage penalty against fiends, but I think you can get around that using Blitz Needle, or traveling with others. Anyways, just a suggestion.
Sat, 12/17/2011 - 09:35
#28
thank you for advice :)
Hi Bopp and Za-Ck, appreciate the feedback. :)
looks like skelly shield is the weakest link. actually, im a little confused. i thought this was meant to be a shadow realm, so a shield offering shadow defense should be preferred over a shield that offer status (ie fire) defense. so i guess the point is - fire defense IS actually THE most important defense in FSC - other than the constant reminder that "not getting hit" is THE best defense.
other than the skelly shield, i am working up owlite and thorn sets, to get an elemental and a piercing shield respectively. i notice owlite comes with fire defense, so i guess that pretty much serves the same purpose ? in fact, from the forum threads here, ppl seem to suggest owlite is the most ideal. but again, probably becos its an elemental shield that provides fire defense, and most ppl want a shield that can be used for end contents.
as for the trinkets and armor of fallen - im a F2P player. so decided some time back that extra weapon slot is the furthest i would go. and im currently building up my 2 other defense sets (piercing and shadow) - so i wouldnt be building up any armours for a while - esp with the crazy CE prices these days.
lastly, thank you so much for offering advice to players on here. notice u ppl are very active contributors. i have learned a lot from reading the forum threads, and it has enhanced my enjoyment of the game. merry christmas :)
Sat, 12/17/2011 - 10:39
#29
glad to help, Leeroyj
The shadow-vs-fire armor debate for FSC is popular, now that swordsmen can choose between Vog Cub and Snarbolax armor. My opinion is that fire is more important, yes. Both Owlite and Thorn shields are great; keep working on them, but keep your Skelly shield around, as your shadow shield (at least until you get Crest of Almire).
Thanks for your kind words, Leeroyj. Merry Christmas.
Sat, 12/17/2011 - 11:11
#30
I heard that volcanic plate
I heard that volcanic plate shield was the best best. can withstand countless attacks from zombies, and hold its ground the most against vanaduke's attacks. can anyone confirm this? Remember, I am fully aware that it does not provide elemental or shadow, its "supposed to" be the best regardless
Sat, 12/17/2011 - 11:56
#31
VPS is popular, yes
Yes, VPS is popular. If I recall correctly, the trojans in FSC do normal, and Vanaduke's mace does normal, and these are regarded as the hardest parts of FSC.
@Marquito best armor sets for FSC are:
Vog set
Volcanic Plate Set
Divine Set
By set I mean only armor/helm
Vog- Best used with slow swords, like DA. Most DMG you will take is normal/elemental (shadow fire).
Fire protection will save your skin numerous times.
Volcanic Plate- Excellent defense against Trojans, and shad fire. Has ASD medium, though, so don't use DA with it.
Divine Veil
This armor was made for FSC:
Anti shadow/elemental damage (biggest damage sources in FSC), anti fire (zombies and shadow fire and fire pits), anti shock (Trojans), anti curse (UFSC), medium Fiend (trojan) damage bonus, and a halo.
I recommend Divine Veil for FSC ONLY if you can afford multiple sets. If not, then go vog/Volcanic.
Hope this helps. :)
Tip: NEVER go into FSC with dread Skelly set/Valkyrie Set. You will burn to death (6-10 bars of DMG per tick- ouch!)